Jim Salk gives Emotiva as an amp recommendation
Comments
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Solid state amps generally have a high dampening factor, while tube amps will generally have a low dampening factor. http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/damping_factor.pdfNot to side-track the thread, but what is a "high dampening factor"? What does it do? Is it good or bad? How do you find out if your amp has it? If it seems to let your amp better match your speakers then how do you know if your speakers need a high, low, or flat dampening factor?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
After a so-so day of deep sea fishing, these comments have really brightened things up a bit. Thanks fellows & gals."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Solid state amps generally have a high dampening factor, while tube amps will generally have a low dampening factor. http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/damping_factor.pdf
Thank you. Something else to digest.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Wow still the very mention of Emo still draws the rebel rousers out in droves..
Wether Jim Salk used the term inexpensive, he still recommended Emotiva if he did not like Emotiva he would have probably stated Parasound or Adcom in the article..
It's still funny how the word Emotiva can create the most viewed threads on here, lol
Some say the Emotiva crowd needs to get a sense of humour, sure in a perfect world but I don't see any other product on this forum get chastised the way Emotiva products are..
It's almost tantamount to school bullying, what Keiko did the other day..ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
Wow still the very mention of Emo still draws the rebel rousers out in droves..
Wether Jim Salk used the term inexpensive, he still recommended Emotiva if he did not like Emotiva he would have probably stated Parasound or Adcom in the article..
It's still funny how the word Emotiva can create the most viewed threads on here, lol
Some say the Emotiva crowd needs to get a sense of humour, sure in a perfect world but I don't see any other product on this forum get chastised the way Emotiva products are..
It's almost tantamount to school bullying, what Keiko did the other day..
It's not the mention of Emotiva Jaime, but misinformation passed on by some that "draws out the rebel rousers in droves".
How is correcting misinformation almost tantamount to school bullying?
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Odd response since it's you that has been called out once again for your troll BS. What's really funny is that Monk is still swallowing the bait.
Oh please, no bait needed for the vast majority around here... Just the word Emotiva is all if takes to get the nasties flowing here."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Having fun Phil? Pathetic contribution
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Monk, if you remember correctly though, Phil PRESENTED the quote as something Jim Salk implied (that an Emotiva XPA-2 is on par with a BAT VK-600). This was a misleading way of presenting what Jim Salk actually meant. That is the cause of this "thread crash" as you put it. I would not call it a "thread crash", but a "thread correction", because that's what it is. Presenting what Jim Salk actually said in stead of taking what he said out of context and then implying that's what he meant.
I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:
A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned. -
Habanero Monk wrote: »I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:
A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned.
He admitted he did as much and you still don't see it? :rolleyes:"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Not to side-track the thread, but what is a "high dampening factor"? What does it do? Is it good or bad? How do you find out if your amp has it? If it seems to let your amp better match your speakers then how do you know if your speakers need a high, low, or flat dampening factor?
Damping factor is derivative of the amount of negative feedback employed. Also it's takes on less importance in a passive network vs active network since the amplifier doesn't see the driver but the x-over. -
He admitted he did as much and you still don't see it? :rolleyes:
I went and looked at the quote. Agreed he's having some fun. Honestly the thing that got me going was Johns' response very early on.
I'll will stick to the original, unedited article and I don't believe his original post was so far off. Emotiva was indeed mentioned in the audience of some other well regarded amps. -
This is an excellent write up on damping factor effects. As one can see, it is basically a non-factor. Furthermore, it's been my experience that amps with really high rated damping factors tend to sound worse.
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/damping-factor-effects-on-system-responsePolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If its a non factor how can they sound worse ? Wouldnt that in an of itself make that a factor worth noting ?
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Whether this is relevant or not, I don't know, but both the absolute sound and stereophile offer manufacturers the opportunity to respond to the review. I have seen this used to complement the review, correct errors in the review, or give the manufacturer an opportunity to respond to a negative review. In this issue, the comments are on page 143, and there is no response to this review. So, to me, the implication is the manufacturer agrees with what was written. Occasionally, a review comment is in the next month's issue, so we need to wait before we can be 100% certain that the manufacturer agrees with the review.
My interpretation is he offered a range of amps from low to high that would complement the speakers. How this can be interpreted as meaning the amps are of equal quality is beyond my level of reading comprehension.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Habanero Monk wrote: »I went and looked at the quote. Agreed he's having some fun. Honestly the thing that got me going was Johns' response very early on.
I'll will stick to the original, unedited article and I don't believe his original post was so far off. Emotiva was indeed mentioned in the audience of some other well regarded amps.
Damn are you gullible.:biggrin::cheesygrin:
It was meant as a joke, heavily laced in sarcasm. Sorry you missed that. I will limit jokes about Emo to Sesame Street levels from now on.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
pearsall001 wrote: »There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.
Jim's comment is no more interesting than someone asking me what mid-size cars I would recommend for a comfortable cross-country trip and I respond "Toyota Camry SE ($27,000), Cadillac ATS ($35,000), Audi A6 (42,000), Jaguar XF ($47,000), or Mercedes E-350 ($52,000). My answer should only be taken as a recommendation of cars at different price and quality points that offer a comfortable long-range driving experience. I did not say the Camry was comparable to, or "in the same company as" the Jaguar and the Mercedes. Anyone who inferred that would be desperately delusional.
On the other hand, if I say the Camry is not as good as the Mercedes, that does not mean the Camry is junk. The Camry is a great value for what it is, but it is not competitive with luxury or near-luxury sedans in any respect.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Having fun Phil? Pathetic contribution
H9
Hell yeah...LOL!
You guys just take things way too seriously. "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
And yet there will be people that will take the Toyota over the Cadillac for reasons of not likening American and there will be people preferring the Cadillac over the Audi and the Jaguar over the Mercedes for preferred reasons of better value and build quality..DarqueKnight wrote: »Jim's comment is no more interesting than someone asking me what mid-size cars I would recommend for a comfortable cross-country trip and I respond "Toyota Camry SE ($27,000), Cadillac ATS ($35,000), Audi A6 (42,000), Jaguar XF ($47,000), or Mercedes E-350 ($52,000). My answer should only be taken as a recommendation of cars at different price and quality points that offer a comfortable long-range driving experience. I did not say the Camry was comparable to, or "in the same company as" the Jaguar and the Mercedes. Anyone who inferred that would be desperately delusional.
On the other hand, if I say the Camry is not as good as the Mercedes, that does not mean the Camry is junk. The Camry is a great value for what it is, but it is not competitive with luxury or near-luxury sedans in any respect.ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
Habanero Monk wrote: »I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:
A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned.
That pretty much covers it. But I'll try this one more time for all the folks that like to add their own versions. Here is the quote " When I asked Jim Salk for amp recommendations he mentioned an inexpensive option such as the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstines's designs, and the BAT VK600" end of quote. Since I left out the word "inexpensive" which I honestly thought was no biggee because the way it's written it pretty much lumps them into the same category. Now if Jim had said that he recommends the inexpensive Emotiva XPA-2 along with more expensive amps, like some of the Frank Van Alstine models and the BAT VK600 then that would offer more clarification. I just though it was nice that a well respected audio guru felt that the Emo was up to the task to compliment his new speaker, nothing more, nothing less. But damn around here once someone mentions anything positive about an Emo product all hell breaks loose."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
And yet there will be people that will take the Toyota over the Cadillac for reasons of not likening American and there will be people preferring the Cadillac over the Audi and the Jaguar over the Mercedes for preferred reasons of better value and build quality..
I have never seen anybody say they chose a Cadillac over a Benz or Audi because Cadillac has better build quality or value, and I work at a Caddy franchise... Just sayin.:rolleyes:
I have heard them say they bought a Caddy to drive while the Jag is in the shop however.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Cool, I have been looking at the Emo stuff on the web. The build quality looks better then Rotel, on par with Bryston and almost as nice as Krell.
Now I don't know about sound because I haven't installed any Emo gear, but I would love to try a mono block from them or that XPA-2.
It is hard to get a good gauge on Emo gear. Their are two very opposite sides. Looks to be a Emo fanboy side and a snobby audio gear side. One side swears by the gear and the other try's to play it off as if the Emo gear owners are just noobs or cheap. OR maybe they arent snobby at all and they really are just dealing with fanboys. Cant know unless I try it for myself.B&W CM9Classé Sigma -
pearsall001 wrote: »But damn around here once someone mentions anything positive about an Emo product all hell breaks loose.
This is another red herring statement... nobody here CARES if something positive is said here about Emo. What we care about are all the Emoette fanbois jumping in and declaring victory over the much more experienced members of the forum. Seriously... some of you guys operate with the same mindset as the MB in Egypt. If I were to say that "Emotiva builds what appears to be solid gear" nobody here would jump on that.
If, however, I were to say that "Emotiva builds solid gear FOR THE PRICE, but that I don't care to own it because I like my gear better"... then perhaps I recommend something other than Emo to somebody... well that is brand-bashing in the eyes of Emoettes the world over, and if my address were public knowledge, I would need to join a witness protection program.
The gear is not the problem... I hope that clarifies things for you.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I knew there was a reason I liked you. Aren't you supposed to be at some gas station doing god knows what?
I am officially on break from being a Beaver Believer2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Have you convinced your dad to return your iphone to you yet?
He's making me sell it on Craigslist2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »he's making me sell it on craigslist
lmao!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »lmao!
Yeah...he's an Emo ba$$-:cheesygrin:****...2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Yeah...he's an Emo ba$$-:cheesygrin:****...
Looks like you need the WPP (witness protection program) as much as I do. lolThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
And yet there will be people that will take the Toyota over the Cadillac for reasons of not likening American and there will be people preferring the Cadillac over the Audi and the Jaguar over the Mercedes for preferred reasons of better value and build quality..
I agree. Hence my previous comment:DarqueKnight wrote: »You have to be careful about going solely on cost and other people's opinions. Just because a speaker costs $9K and people rave about it does not mean that its design, construction, and sound quality warrant such investment. It may not give you $9K of listening pleasure. The people who rave about the thing might have entirely different listening preferences than yours.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
^^^^LOL...But seriously in all fairness, if someone wants to bring Emo gear next May to LSAF in Dallas to do comparisons, Skip and I will provide his Ushers and my Dynaudio speakers.
We can have a 3rd party switch cables to the Emo gear and whatever else we have in the rack while everyone stands outside the room. We can run the same spl and music selections with no conversations and present and A/B evaluation.
Marvdai, assimillated and others usually attend
Could be interesting....or not
All in good fun2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
