Jim Salk gives Emotiva as an amp recommendation
pearsall001
Posts: 5,068
There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
Post edited by pearsall001 on
Comments
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pearsall001 wrote: »There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.
Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs. That and if its for the speaker manufacture to test with, lots of folks have Emotiva gear, or gear in that price point, so seeing how their speakers sounded on High end amps and entry level would be something they want to test IMHO. Not arguing one way or the other."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.
I am well aware
. I was going to go with some of his speakers for my HT until I got my LSi's at bargain prices. I love that they come with a birth certificate and all the cool stuff they do custom wise. "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
It sounds like a recommendation of some sort for the Emotiva but in reality, but I think it makes little sense how important the amp matters in a good 2 channel setup.
Emotiva is still a boat anchor to me no matter who recommends it. No bashing intended but merely stating my own opinions when it comes to that brand.
Jim Salk makes awesome speakers and have my respect for his products. But it doesn't mean he earns my respect for his taste in electronics.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.Jim Salk builds awesome speakers and have my respect for his products. But it doesn't mean he earns my respect for his taste in electronics."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.
I think Jim did the cabinet & when that was finished the crossover design was turned over to Dennis Murphy. As we all know he's pretty good at what he does."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
They're both excellent at what they do."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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EndersShadow wrote: »Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs.
This ^^^^HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
EndersShadow wrote: »Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs. That and if its for the speaker manufacture to test with, lots of folks have Emotiva gear, or gear in that price point, so seeing how their speakers sounded on High end amps and entry level would be something they want to test IMHO. Not arguing one way or the other.
Could also mean he has a hearing problem. He certainly wouldn't be the first one in the audio business with a tin ear.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Could also mean he has a hearing problem. He certainly wouldn't be the first one in the audio business with a tin ear.
You could always ask directly ask Jim or Dennis if they have a tin ear. They are around.
I'll take a brilliant speaker designer over a brilliant amp designer any day of the week. -
I would venture to say that Jim has an excellent ear when it comes to evaluating sound. Maybe in a polite way he's saying to not waste your money on those pricey pieces."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.Habanero Monk wrote: »I'll take a brilliant speaker designer over a brilliant amp designer any day of the week."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.
Amps are far more commodity parts than speaker assemblies. We will have to agree to disagree on this one Mike.
There are very competent amps that for $400 can drive a $30K set of speakers just fine. It doesn't work the other way around as ROI is concerned. -
Habanero Monk wrote: »Amps are far more commodity parts than speaker assemblies
At the Emo level I think this is true,when you get to to the big leagues amps are hardly a commodity item.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
falconcry72 wrote: »Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.
He developed a good vaccine years ago, too.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.
Especially in the Class D arena. Plenty of new & exciting things there. As far as Class A, A/B go it's the same old same old as 40yrs ago. Nothing new but man oh man can one get fleeced with some of their prices. But they sure are purdy."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Just for clarification Amps tend (even Class D will do this) to enter into a commodity parts phase rather quickly. Pearlsall made the point I was going to make: A, A/B, H are all well trodden designs. The parts that make up a lot of amp products are off the self.
While with Polk, KEF, Paradigm, PSB and countless others etc they all have drivers that are custom to their design requirements. Not saying it doesn't happen with amps but there are plenty of solid A/B, tubed amps based on topologies that have been around awhile. -
So basically it all boils down to how much you think the name is worth and if/what you are willing to pay if you think that name is worth it based on rep and word of mouth.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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Value of an item does not determine how well it was designed. I don't know which side of the fence I stand on, but your logic makes no sense in the discussion. Actually, I think I agree with Face here. As long as you know the important measurements needed for each component, build it around those numbers and use a bit of common audio sense, you're going to get at least a decent speaker. Building an amp from scratch takes much more knowledge to accomplish audio nirvana. You don't have to be an EE to build a speaker...
I'd be willing to bet that a person could get a crash course on speaker building in an 8 hour day and be able to build a competent speaker. I can't say the same for an amp.
You can get full blown schematics for building a solid A/B amp. There isn't a real reason to do so. I'm not equating cost to competency of design. Harmans DriveCore technology is a prime example of a high end engineering feat making into rather plebeian priced product with good sonic results.
Bottom line is I'll take an XPA-2 ($899) and some SoundScape 8's over LSiM 705's and $5-6K of whomever amp. Because I doubt Salk and Murphy have 'tin' ears. -
You're REALLY over-generalizing...to the point it looks like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Not always.So basically it all boils down to how much you think the name is worth and if/what you are willing to pay if you think that name is worth it based on rep and word of mouth."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Habanero Monk wrote: »Just for clarification Amps tend (even Class D will do this) to enter into a commodity parts phase rather quickly. Pearlsall made the point I was going to make: A, A/B, H are all well trodden designs. The parts that make up a lot of amp products are off the self.
While with Polk, KEF, Paradigm, PSB and countless others etc they all have drivers that are custom to their design requirements. Not saying it doesn't happen with amps but there are plenty of solid A/B, tubed amps based on topologies that have been around awhile.
That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
You're REALLY over-generalizing...to the point it looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. Not always.
Remember this is all rooted in the post about Jim Salk (and by extension, IMO, Dennis Murphy) having tin ears. Strictly speaking since it was Nooshin's post: I'll take Salk/Murphy over Bob Carver.
I'll sign up an account over at PETT if you want to carry it on over there with out so much shouting down that is inevitable here. Let me know. You're welcome to point out any errors. -
That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.
Didn't say that off the self parts aren't tolerance matched. They are still off the shelf. Many firms (ones supplying transistors as example) offer for slight premiums, bulk ordered, close tolerance parts.
I know both Peavey and Crown have custom parts also. JD Bennett designed a super capacitor for the IPR and and I believe it's in some Crest products also. DriveCore is in JBL, Crown, Lexicon.
The question begs: Is an IC combining 400-500 parts running at 1.4v better than 400-500 parts running at much higher voltages that are tolerance matched? -
Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.
I did not know that. :redface:Habanero Monk wrote: »There are very competent amps that for $400 can drive a $30K set of speakers just fine. It doesn't work the other way around as ROI is concerned.
You don't need to spend money to be happy with your stereo system. But again, you would never drive a 30K speaker with the $400 amp or $900 Emotiva. It's wrong wrong. I am not being facetious or elitist. Just saying this won't happen. No $30K speaker owners will do such a thing.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Thanks for going into more detail on the amp perspective.That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.
Hopefully Carotiva's new amps combine the best of both brands to produce something that actually sounds good and has a good soundstage."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I did not know that. :redface:
Dennis has his own company: Phillharmonic AudioYou don't need to spend money to be happy with your stereo system. But again, you would never drive a 30K speaker with the $400 amp or $900 Emotiva. It's wrong wrong. I am not being facetious or elitist. Just saying this won't happen. No $30K speaker owners will do such a thing.
You may be right, you may not be about what people drive their speakers with. I don't agree with your 'wrong wrong'. I'm willing to bet there are some Revel Salon/Salon2 or KEF's in the 20-30K range being driven with an XPA-2. And there is nothing stopping a well received XLS1500 from driving it either. -
Someone spending $20-30K on speakers is not going to put up with fan noise."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Sure, you and John can battle that out over there, I never stated such a thing.Habanero Monk wrote: »Remember this is all rooted in the post about Jim Salk (and by extension, IMO, Dennis Murphy) having tin ears. Strictly speaking since it was Nooshin's post: I'll take Salk/Murphy over Bob Carver.
I'll sign up an account over at PETT if you want to carry it on over there with out so much shouting down that is inevitable here. Let me know. You're welcome to point out any errors."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Habanero Monk wrote: »Remember this is all rooted in the post about Jim Salk (and by extension, IMO, Dennis Murphy) having tin ears. Strictly speaking since it was Nooshin's post: I'll take Salk/Murphy over Bob Carver.
I'll sign up an account over at PETT if you want to carry it on over there with out so much shouting down that is inevitable here. Let me know. You're welcome to point out any errors.
I trust you realize that, given the topic of this thread and my preference for other brands, that my post was meant to be taken as a joke, right?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Someone spending $20-30K on speakers is not going to put up with fan noise.
Fan noise? What Fan noise? Who said anything about fan noise? Also someone who has $20-30K in speakers probably has a dedicated rack sitting elsewhere then in the front of the room with the speakers contributing to smearing the sound stage. Right? :cheesygrin:
I just put in a XTi2 4002 and in the low setting couldn't get the fan to come on unless driving the subs so hard you couldn't be in the room.
