The LSi9...is it really that good?

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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    Of Lsi9s or MIT mysteries ?:cheesygrin:
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited March 2012
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    Vague at best. I thought we were past the obvious comparisons. This answer offers zero specific accountability to the question, in fact it detracts. "one amp costs...., and another costs.....". There are countless amps of different make, power output, style, intended use, etc etc.

    The box(s) in question is made by one company and serves one purpose.

    Endershadow has been the only one here of offer an answer that can be digested with specific information pertaining to the specific question.

    So I'm good with that.

    Ok then since you seem incapable of simple logic I'll dumb it down for you. For the same reason one amp from company X costs $500.00 and another from company X costs $5,000. Both made by one company and serve the same purpose, but one does it better than the other. Some reasons why one does it better and therefore costs more involves R&D time, higher grade materials, etc., etc.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited March 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    placebo.
    Demand a blind test.

    Says the guy with no experience. Hilarious!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • ravaneli
    ravaneli Posts: 530
    edited March 2012
    dude, are you out of your mind? What experience? I am just saying it would be nice to test if H9 can really sniff a difference, or is he full of horse ****. This is not about whether the cables are any good, but if he can detect a difference, and I don't need experience to try to put people to the test.
    Hey F1nut, do you have experience in everything you say? 24,781 posts and going strong! You are just littering everything everywhere with ur posts, aren't you. I mean how can someone with life count to 24781. If you had any self respect you would change your account after 20 000 lol : )
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I have found that tube based computers provide the best sound quality. ENIAC and MANIAC I offer a smooth, well defined and articulated sound unmatched by the current silicon based CPUs. :wink:
    jeremymarcinko wrote: »
    But as in all things your perception is your reality.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited March 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    blah blah blah

    What a pathetic post, you should delete yourself. Welcome to my BOZO list.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited March 2012
    Seriously what the hell do people have against those with high post counts?? F1 has been a huge help to me and others and for you couldn't say the same. Good lord do the freaking mit demo and see for yourself if they make a difference if you don't think they do whatever.

    For the op you need to also do your own research. Brock to me didn't do anything wrong and have you info. If you didn't like it there is a huge amount of data you can read on the mit site
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2012
    F1nut wrote: »
    What a pathetic post, you should delete yourself. Welcome to my BOZO list.

    This thread has caused my ignore list to increase by a few....
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited March 2012
    So when did this thread become a gang up on heiney and F1nut thread? If you don't like a user's post, use the "Report Post" function and ask the mods to deal with it. You can also add the user to your Ignore list. Please keep the personal attacks out of the posts.

    The other thing is this... Even though I have been here for 3 years I am still a newb. I know I am. It would be very arrogant of me to start questioning people with higher post counts and have been here longer. Higher post counts don't necessarily mean better users on some forums, but generally speaking most high post count users here are VERY knowledgeable. You don't have to put them on a pedestal to be worshipped, but don't assume you are smarter than they are when they have been here a lot longer and have helped countless people out.

    I don't know heiney, F1nut, and many other veterans on this forum personally. Never met any of them. So defending them is not my goal. My goal is to ensure that this place doesn't degrade to a troll fest.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2012
    mlebler wrote: »
    By the way, I've been using a slightly modified (changed out the signal caps) class-D PS Audio HCA-2 amplifier rated at 150wpc for all my critical listening. This amp sounds absolutely amazing! However, it is also "laid-back" and might not be the best pairing for the LSi9's. But man oh man does it sound good with my 70's and RTi's.
    Your amp is rated for 2ohm operation, so it's not a power issue. Which coupling caps did you install? Changing them out for something that may have better synergy will be a cheaper experiment than changing amps at this point. Also, how do you have them positioned? Just cause one speaker works well in a specific spot doesn't mean all speakers will. Are they toed in towards you?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited March 2012
    BTW, here's a little more info for you on why bigger boxes are better (in relation to MIT cables that is)....

    All cables (even lamp power cords) have resistance, inductance, and capacitance. It's called Characteristic impedance:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristic_impedance

    In reality this is hard to model since each of these 3 components are along the cable length, not as a single point as the pictures in the link suggest. As the MIT video explains, this is a "network". As such, this network has a resonant frequency... it's a frequency where the cable has less impedance than at other frequencies. It acts like a band-pass filter. Think of it as a frequency hump.

    So cables will color the sound because its response is different at different frequencies. And since the RLC components vary with many aspects of the cable's construction, all cables are different. Also, how the cable responds also depends on the signal applied to it. This is why some cables don't work well with one person's gear but will with someone else's. It's because the gear's characteristic impedance will interact with the cable's.

    So what the MIT box does is add other resonant frequencies by adding RLC components (passive components) inside the box. Each resonant frequency is what they call an articulation pole. The more poles they have the more they can try to overcome the non-linear response of the overall cable and produce as much of a flat frequency response as possible. With fewer poles and you will simply have too few humps to try to simulate a flat response. So the more poles, the more components that are required, thus the bigger the box; but overall a better sounding cable since it no longer attenuates at some frequencies.

    Of course, adding bi-wiring and other cable construction changes then makes the network more complicated and they need to add more components to counteract the added affects.

    I hope this explanation is correct. Perhaps someone with better knowledge can explain it better. I am an EE, but my mind has already fallen asleep.
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,420
    edited March 2012
    Personally, I don't care about a members post count other than I can generally rely on that members personal experience or advice due to that high count, and not expect to be slandered or insulted about my comprehension, especially when I'm just asking a specific question, that's just rude behavior. One member said I was deliberately obtuse or just an idiot, and then attacked my comprehension level. Another member said I was incapable of simple logic and he would dumb down his answer for me. Now this is coming from members you would expect to show more of a "how can I help you understand" attitude instead of a "how stupid can you be" attitude.

    Is asking a member with longstanding membership and experience not a form of research?

    I give you two distinct styles;

    EndersShadow; Geoff:
    If I understand it correctly the more articulation poles the fewer gaps in overall frequency response as the poles provide more overlap the more you have.

    PrazVT; I found this interview with Bruce Bryson answered alot of questions regarding the tech MIT uses ..(link provided)

    cstmar01; Personally if you want to find out there is a demo program on the forum that is run. Cost of shipping will get them to your door and you can try it in your own system.

    Personally in HT I never notice a huge difference with cables. There was some but not as much as when I switched over and did more in my 2 channel. Granted my HT wasn't cheap but it was not nearly like my 2 channel is.

    DSkip; Geoff, the technical talk is all great, but it really doesn't help you understand WHY its better. Experience is the only way to go. What has helped me learn is getting together with other Polkies and hearing their comments about this or that. It tipped me off to listen for this or that and made the great gear that much more enjoyable. It's also help me determine what I want/don't want out of a system and narrow down what I want to upgrade next. There is no substitution for experience in this hobby IMO.

    heiney9; You obviously don't understand the contents of the box.

    F1nut; For the same reason one amp costs $500.00 and another $5,000. Both do the same thing, but one does it better than the other.

    Two of these are not like the others. Granted, I did little research but I did watch the companies video explaining what the box did and what was inside it. According to my "level of comprehension", I didn't understand why this box did such a wonderful thing for your music at one price, and then does it again for tens of thousands more.

    Hoping for "experienced" members to help connect the dots, I reached out to further my research by asking here.

    If I may, thanks to those that put forth the effort to answer my question. Sorry to those that got impatient with me and sorry if I wasted your time.

    I learned more than cables here, I learned about character.
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited March 2012
    This hobby requires patience. There's many variables involved. Please don't criticize people who have lots of experience and then try to explain it while being criticized. Heiney explained in 3 posts why the cables are better before you accused him of being rude. Since the science behind this is not easy, you may need to experience this just like many people here that already have.

    Ultimately, you need to do the research. People will help you here but understand that the help is free so you will only get nibbles of help from many people. Asking for a dissertation as explanation is a little much. Cripes, some people were telling heiney that he needed to prove the cables by performing a blind test? WhaWhaWhat?
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  • michael1947
    michael1947 Posts: 775
    edited March 2012
    Ok now, everyone up to their room.
    Main Family Room: Sony 46 LCD, Sony Blue Ray, Sony DVD/VCR combo,Onkyo TXNR 708, Parasound 5250,
    Polk SDS-SRS with mods, CSI 5 center + Klipsch SC2, Polk RT2000P rears, Klipsch KG 1.5's sides, Polk Micro Pro 1000, Polk Micro Pro 2000, Polk SW505, Belkin PF60, Signal Cable Classics,Monster IC's, 2 15 amp circuits & 1 20 amp circuit.

    Living Room: Belkin PF60, Parasound HCA2200, MIT ProlineEXP balanced IC's,Emotiva XDA-1 DAC/Pre,Emotiva ERC2 transport,MIT AVT2, Polk LSI 9's.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited March 2012
    According to my "level of comprehension", I didn't understand why this box did such a wonderful thing for your music at one price, and then does it again for tens of thousands more.

    Nor did you understand my amp analogy, although it is exactly the same principle. Like I said, simple logic. Sorry you can't see that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2012
    Nor did you understand my amp analogy, although it is exactly the same principle. Like I said, simple logic. Sorry you can't see that.

    Whoever heard of a manufacturer making a good product at one price, and making a same, but better, product at a higher price? That's crazy talk. :rolleyes:

    Seriously though, while this site, and others, can be a good source of information, expecting members to know, and tell, how some company's proprietary technology works is asking for a lot. Even if I worked for MIT I wouldn't explain the technology of how one cable is better than another cable.

    The benefit of these sites is getting the first hand experience of members, and then using that information to see if it is relevant to your needs.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2012
    How did you get into a "cable" debate when the OP was merely asking about LSi-9s, are they really that good?

    Maybe we should return to the beginning because this thread has been "derailed". Those individuals who are interested in the Engineering involved in MIT boxes "should start another thread about this topic". And we should return to the appropriate subject matter.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,666
    edited March 2012
    First person to wire up a LSi9 with MIT Shotgun S2 speaker wire gets a muffin. A big one. Home made even.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    Already been a few "muffins" dropped here already !:lol: Lighten up, it's Saint Pattie's Day !!!! Erin go burrrp!
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2012
    gdb wrote: »
    Lighten up, it's Saint Pattie's Day !!!! Erin go burrrp!

    Not yet for me, but I have started on the beer.


    Friday night, Saint Patties Day. What the hell is the difference? :biggrin:
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • ravaneli
    ravaneli Posts: 530
    edited March 2012
    truth to be told, i don't care about post count myself. That dude just bothered me. He just needed a slap, and since I have no reputation to lose, I decided to provide the slap, and take some pleasure while at it. H9 too. Nasty lil basta.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I have found that tube based computers provide the best sound quality. ENIAC and MANIAC I offer a smooth, well defined and articulated sound unmatched by the current silicon based CPUs. :wink:
    jeremymarcinko wrote: »
    But as in all things your perception is your reality.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,973
    edited March 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    since I have no reputation

    Feels good doesn't it ? When the truth suddenly sets you free.:cheesygrin:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    Yeah, you and this guy !! LOL (no reputation)



    images.jpg
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Not yet for me, but I have started on the beer.


    Friday night, Saint Patties Day. What the hell is the difference? :biggrin:


    CORRECT ! That IS the proper spirit/spirits and attitude !! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: How's my color ??
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,973
    edited March 2012
    gdb wrote: »
    Yeah, you and this guy !! LOL (no reputation)



    images.jpg


    Is that the dude from "They call me Trinity" ? If so, I liked that flick.

    As far as my reputation...LOL....I don't need to say anything more.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    tonyb wrote: »
    Is that the dude from "They call me Trinity" ? If so, I liked that flick.

    As far as my reputation...LOL....I don't need to say anything more.

    Yes and the reference was to the ravaneli reputationless fella and the man with no name/trinity.
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited March 2012
    F1nut wrote: »
    Nor did you understand my amp analogy, although it is exactly the same principle. Like I said, simple logic. Sorry you can't see that.

    I liked the analogy, some people just dont want to understand logic. So according to his logic my Cadillac CTS should have 550 horsepower because the CTS-V does and if they built a big engine all the cheaper ones should have it too? Who cares the parts cost thousands more and it's a masterpiece of a car, because mine is the same brand so why pay more?:rolleyes:
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,973
    edited March 2012
    gdb wrote: »
    Yes and the reference was to the ravaneli reputationless fella and the man with no name/trinity.

    Surprised I knew that one huh ?
    I said nothing Ravaneli didn't openly admit himself, that he had no reputation....so whats the sticky point here ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2012
    None....whatsoever. I think you may be over-reading what's not there. Christ ! Why does everybody have to be so "heart attack' serious all the time !?!?
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,420
    edited March 2012
    B Run wrote: »
    I liked the analogy, some people just dont want to understand logic. So according to his logic my Cadillac CTS should have 550 horsepower because the CTS-V does and if they built a big engine all the cheaper ones should have it too? Who cares the parts cost thousands more and it's a masterpiece of a car, because mine is the same brand so why pay more?:rolleyes:

    I get it, I get the analogy for crying out loud. I understood what F1 was trying to convey when he posted it. For you and he to ****-ume that I didn't get it just shows how quickly you two jump to conclusions.

    After watching the video on "what's inside", and then seeing how many upgrades there were, it just didn't add up. EndersShadow was the man, and gave a logical explanation, it made sense to me after that. That was early on and I had acknowledged it. Most of the posts after that failed in comparison and it just became a **** sandwich from all the folks that just had to be right.

    For those about to rock, I salute you.
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited March 2012
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    I get it, I get the analogy for crying out loud. I understood what F1 was trying to convey when he posted it.
    H9 wrote:
    Geoff is being deliberately obtuse

    Yep, Brock nailed it.
    Geoffrfc wrote:
    For you and he to ****-ume that I didn't get it just shows how quickly you two jump to conclusions.

    You do realize how silly that comment makes you look, right.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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