The LSi9...is it really that good?

heiney9

Air and extension is a good description, but only with the proper gear or atleast gear that provides synergy. I didn't think they sounded "box like" at all, and the mid bass hump was present in every professional review that bothered to do a frequency test. It could be minimized by proper placement, but never completely eliminated. That is what bothered me the most, as the frequency of the hump was a very prominent frequency that can add a lot of perceived "punch" and false dynamics to a recording. It sounded unnatural and that's the real reason I moved them along. Vocals were to die for, however.

I tried lots of placement options (they need to be farther out in the room than most speakers of this type and size) and I used some different gear on them. That naggin mid-bass hump just was too unnatural sounding for me. Had I kept them and redone the x-overs, they probably would still be here.

H9

steveinaz

To clarify, not "box like" in terms of sound quality or resonance--but I could always pin-point the music to the speakers, a fairly deep soundstage, but not at all wide as I suspected it would be. IOW, I didn't find them to be a speaker that disappears into the room most of the time.

For reference purposes, I listened to them about 3.5 to 4 feet into the room, about 8ft apart; seated 11ft away. In this setup, midbass was fine; and simply added an enjoyable (to me) visceral impact to the sound. I don't know how anyone could call them "boring" but again, listener preference comes into play.

heiney9

When I was running them, I did feel they disappeared into the room. I had no issues with that, I am a FREAK about that, because once you hear a speaker or combination of gear that allows for that, when it doesn't happen it's glaringly obvious.

I have been reviewing some lesser expensive DAC's recently and that is the very first thing I noticed compared to my reference baseline. I wasn't horrible, but definitely noticeable. It's a quality that's hard to explain to another listener, but it smaks you in the face when you are accustomed to hearing it.

H9

steveinaz

I found it to be speaker related, as both my Carbon 7's and Harbeths disappear with ease with good source material; the Carbon 7's being slightly better in that regard. The Harbeths thin-wall construction tends to draw attention to the enclosure somewhat, making it a little more difficult to pull off the disappearing act.

nwohlford

I think these threads are useful because given the current prices a lot of people who only have experience with the Polk RT line or similar home theater speakers are tempted to make the jump to these speakers. Placement is a very big issue with these speakers. Once you get placement figured out, you also need to have a high current amplifier, and they do tend to be revealing of other issues in your system. It is likely a mistake to think you can just drop these into your current system without any changes unless you already have your pre and sources at a high level. I also think that a good sub makes a big difference with the 9s and is a necessity for the 7s.

Once you get these issues solved, I think that the 9s are a great speaker. Before I really got the placement right and started playing around with trying different amps, pres, and sources, I would say I liked them for about 75% of the music I listened to. With any set up I had, I think that they sounded near perfect on acoustic music with very little bass (think Gillian Welch). With proper set up and some upgrades, I have a hard time finding something I don't think they excel on.

steveinaz

Agree on amplification...better and better amplifiers will only serve to improve, and never out-class the Lsi9. If their tonal character floats your boat, you'd likely live with this speaker a very long time.

VR3

I had the LSi9 in here with my 2 channel rig about a year ago and I had an extremely hard time getting them to produce any type of sound that was exciting and involving. They lack alot of dynamics and just midrange clarity in general. That tweeter is also very outdated compared to many nicer, higher end tweeters.

I will say for what they can be had at now 4-600 dollars they may be a good value. I would argue that the KEF Q300 is a superior speaker.

The LSiM has a very similar sound to the old series but with a cleaner midrange, IMO.

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

I found it to be speaker related, as both my Carbon 7's and Harbeths disappear with ease with good source material; the Carbon 7's being slightly better in that regard. The Harbeths thin-wall construction tends to draw attention to the enclosure somewhat, making it a little more difficult to pull off the disappearing act.

Steve, I have no doubt both do with ease compared to the LSi 9's, the Harbeth's definitely should, based on rep and price, all other things being equal. I would suspect the Carbon 7's the same.

Have I heard similar sized speakers do a better job of "disappearing"? yes, but I never felt it was an issue with the 9's when I had them, ie, it was good enough for me in my llistening environment to not really notice it as an issue.

I will say when running SDA's consistently, and then listening to conventional speakers, it takes awhile for the brain to reset, because my 1C's completely disappear on most well recorded material. It's also one of the things I like about my modded 5B's.

Funny thing is I also run a pair of Rt25i's and Rti38's in the office rig and the RT25i's do a better job of disappearing than the Rti38's.

H9

pyrocyborg

Well... as I said, I am not familiar with the LSi9, as I only own the 7s, but in straight mode, they aren't what I would call laid back. I've heard speakers that sound great, but less forward than the LSi7. Sure, as someone pointed out, they aren't "in your face" like the RTi line, but they are sure not as laid back as many european brands. I find them quite detailled and some sound clearly capture my attention when in straight mode, while in "normal non-straight" mode on my NAD, everything is has less impact: not less detailled, just there isn't a lot of "magic" in every sound you hear, that hint of information that captures your attention. It is not really due to habituation as I didn't try it first (dumb I am :cheesygrin:).

I guess it's all a matter of synergy, because with that particular setting on my NAD, they are now very exciting and involving to me, the same way the RTi were: however, they are less bright/harsh, doesn't cause me listening fatigue and have better quality bass when compared to my RTiA3 in my particular room (RTi had more bass, but it had less impact, less well defined, etc.).

I really really love them now, once I figured out they needed straight mode to sound "real"... and proper placement. They are worth every penny while in clearance... but yeah, I wouldn't buy them at full MSRP, because they are a lot of better speakers out there at this price point.

It might be different for LSi9 though... they are probably harder to "get it right".

heiney9

VR3 wrote: »

I had the LSi9 in here with my 2 channel rig about a year ago and I had an extremely hard time getting them to produce any type of sound that was exciting and involving. They lack alot of dynamics and just midrange clarity in general. That tweeter is also very outdated compared to many nicer, higher end tweeters.

I will say for what they can be had at now 4-600 dollars they may be a good value. I would argue that the KEF Q300 is a superior speaker.

The LSiM has a very similar sound to the old series but with a cleaner midrange, IMO.

Hmmm......midrange clarity was it's forte for me. Vocals and acoutic instruments were stellar sounding, very real, lifelike and 3D. The 9's faultered the most with hard rock, rap and most compressed pop music. But someone like Jewel playing acoustic on the 9's was simply heaven so I can't relate to your comments. Where they started to faulter was lower mid-bass because there was too much warmth there, below the band of most male and female vocals.

In fact if you like blugrass, folk, acoustic, vocal music primarily, the LSi 9's would be an excellent choice, IMO of course.

steveinaz

I also felt midrange was quite good on the Lsi9. I still don't get the "boring" observations, I found their "slam" to be enjoyable.

heiney9

The "slam" which is the emphasis on the lower midrange built into the design is very seductive and pleasurable to listen to, but I felt after awhile it was too unnatural. They were never boring to me and the detail and air with complete lack of harshness is what was also very good about them, especially at that price point. The midrange was excellent. Treble was "effortless"

IMO, the major flaw was the lower mid bass emphasis. It could make lean sounding recordings sound better, but then "normal" recordings had too much lower midbass emphasis.

Anyway that's my take on them when I owned them.

As Tony and Steve and others have said, not every speaker is going to float everyone's boat. I just take issue with some that don't even give a fair shot and some here have and continue to do that.

H9

P.s. My listening habits tended to cater to the strenghts of the 9's too. Vocal, acoustic, instrumental music so perhaps that's aprt of the reason I don't think are as "boring" as some think.

P.s.s. Bruce I've heard speakers at Polkfests on Doro's BBQ too and the listening environment was none to kind, so I wouldn't use a Polkfest gathering as my only yard stick. Far less than perfect.

Tour2ma

shack wrote: »

Choices...we have lots of them...which is good.

Yuppers... different strokes... etc., etc...

My only point was the OP is fine not liking them and with me, Sid and tony in his corner he's in great company. :cool:

As for the "sources and such" crowd... I've heard them at two different PF's on some outstanding gear including Doro's BBQ, and they were a snooze... just not "involving".

falconcry72

not sure if it's been pointed out already, but the the LSi's tweeters are more directional than other Polk speakers, so they benefit greatly from being toed in. With the LSi's there's a huge difference in sound between facing straight ahead and being toed in, whereas some other Polk speakers, RTi's included, do well both ways.

I'd recommend trying them with a hard toe in, maybe even slightly overlapping, so that you can just barely see the outsides of the cabinets from the listening position, if you haven't tried it already.

heiney9

^^^Which is why so many of us that have owned these for any length of time keep harping on PROPER SET-UP!!!

H9

Lietuvis91

steveinaz wrote: »

Be careful, "exciting" usually ends up being "irratating" in the long run.

Your comment just reminded me of this episode:

When I had my m70s in the living room, my parents would always yell - "Turned it DOWN!"

Now that the lsi9s are in that spot, my dad has repeatedly stopped to listen to some random song on the radio and a number of times has said: "She has such a nice voice"

I never expected this in my wildest dreams... not from the old man anyway...

nwohlford

falconcry72 wrote: »

not sure if it's been pointed out already, but the the LSi's tweeters are more directional than other Polk speakers, so they benefit greatly from being toed in. With the LSi's there's a huge difference in sound between facing straight ahead and being toed in, whereas some other Polk speakers, RTi's included, do well both ways.

I'd recommend trying them with a hard toe in, maybe even slightly overlapping, so that you can just barely see the outsides of the cabinets from the listening position, if you haven't tried it already.

I agree. You really have to get the toe in correct to make them disappear (not to mention the tweeter height). I finally did some more playing around with the placement last weekend, and it made a big difference to me.

cnh

Tour2ma wrote: »

Yuppers... different strokes... etc., etc...

My only point was the OP is fine not liking them and with me, Sid and tony in his corner he's in great company. :cool:

As for the "sources and such" crowd... I've heard them at two different PF's on some outstanding gear including Doro's BBQ, and they were a snooze... just not "involving".

I have to agree that it is AMAZINGLY subjective. I've been to a couple of mini-fests where a number of members just "loved" bookshelves that sent me running for a pair of earplugs because they were WAY too "bright" up top. In fact, I noticed that, often, "younger" members seem to like those "sparkling" highs that drive me crazy. But, then again, they probably hear a lot more up top than I do these days!

cnh

falconcry72

nwohlford wrote: »

I agree. You really have to get the toe in correct to make them disappear (not to mention the tweeter height). I finally did some more playing around with the placement last weekend, and it made a big difference to me.

Nice. Yep, tweeter height is also critical.

pyrocyborg

falconcry72 wrote: »

I'd recommend trying them with a hard toe in, maybe even slightly overlapping, so that you can just barely see the outsides of the cabinets from the listening position, if you haven't tried it already.

I've got a slight 5-10 degree toe-in, 8 feet appart, and they're very involving, the same way the RTi are (without the bright side)... I just don't get it, but maybe we all hear differently! That's what funny about this. But yeah falcon, you're quite right about this. I tried them facing straight ahead, and they lost of lot of detail, while my RTi weren't toed-in (because they sounded way too harsh that way).

Anyways, good suggestion, if it might help someone. They really need toe-in to get the best of them, expecially if both speakers are far appart... but it might no please everyone! I've yet to see a speaker that everyone loves

mlebler

I got my hands on a cheap Pyle Pro PTA1000 DJ amplifier (this was all that was available to me) and will be doing some listening with it later this evening. I did get a chance to try it out with the LSi's this morning very quickly and there is a huge difference between this amp and the HCA-2 that I was using. Definitely not "veiled" or "boring" anymore.....I'm almost certain its just a synergy problem with the amplification as the M70's and RTi's sound great with the HCA-2.

.....Further amplifier recommendations are still welcome! Thanks!

heiney9

"cheap" Pyle Pro :rolleyes:

Wow.........I can't even comment. :rolleyes:

H9

mlebler

heiney9 wrote: »

"cheap" Pyle Pro :rolleyes:

Wow.........I can't even comment. :rolleyes:

H9

At least its a start with something different. I don't have any other amplifiers at my disposal right now....at least not for a couple weeks.

BeefJerky

Yes, speakers are definitely subjective. I had a friend who "never heard a Polk speaker that he liked." From what I gather, this included the current R, Monitor and RTiA lines, as well as some older models that he couldn't be specific on. At any rate, I convinced him to give the LSi line a listen, and he's now a fan of that line. In fact, he has a set of LSi7's and Pioneer Elite receiver on his way since I've done upgrading and needed to move them on.

He definitely doesn't like bright speakers, and I have somewhat limited tolerance of them as well. The RTiA's are good for HT, but I cannot listen to music on them for any length of time; it makes me want to pierce my eardrums with icepicks. I also had a set of Focal 165VR's in my car, and while they were good sounding speakers and quite detailed, they were too bright for extended listens. I switched to some SR5250's and couldn't be happier. They are just as detailed, but much more enjoyable to listen to.

But then, I also don't understand the posts criticizing their lack of midrange or high end clarity/detail. That's always been where the LSi's excel to my ears. I also think they have more than enough dynamics and punch for HT; however, I can at least understand that criticism a bit, especially when compared to something like the RTi series.

pyrocyborg

@ mlebler, continue to search for new amps! I'm sure you'll find something that suits your tastes perfectly, even if it takes some time.

Do you have a NAD dealer near you? You could give them a try!

maximillian

I've had RTi6's/CSi5 for a HT and now have LSi9's/LSiC. I didn't like the RTi line. It was nice and detailed, but there were at times where the brightness was a little unbearable. I switched to the LSi's and haven't experienced this. I wouldn't call the LSi tweeter laid back either. I just added LSiFx's and watched a few scenes from Star Wars, ep. III. The sound was quite amazing. There's some scenes where I wondered how the tweeter could put out so much sound without being damaged. They sound wonderful, and do not fatigue my ears.

For music listening they are wonderful. I have them about 1 foot from the back wall and 2 feet away from the side walls with a little bit (1") of toe-in and spaced about 11 feet apart. The imaging is great. This setup is making me really appreciate the beauty of some singer's voices that I would never have listened to before. I have some well recorded tracks where the speakers easily disappear and others not so much.

My system is not a perfect setup since I probably need a DAC and a better source would help too. The Pioneer Elite AVR does an OK job for now. I use an external 5 channel Adcom amp. I have tried a Rotel amp which added more bass but I felt took away from the highs. I have more things to try to get the best out of the system, but it is very nice for me now. Better equipment, perhaps room treatment, and eventually modding the x-overs of the 9's. It's all part of the enjoyment of the hobby, and I'm taking it slowly to ensure I don't go crazy with spending.

heiney9

Adcom and LSi are a great match-up as well.

H9

pyrocyborg

maximillian wrote: »

Better equipment, perhaps room treatment, and eventually modding the x-overs of the 9's. It's all part of the enjoyment of the hobby, and I'm taking it slowly to ensure I don't go crazy with spending.

Room treatment and proper speaker placement makes the most difference out of it... but yeah, room treatment isn't for everyone (especially students renting their appartment like me... :sad:)

If you had a 2500$ pair of speakers with a 2000$ pre-amp/amp combo and 1000$ DAC, it could still sound "okay" while it could sound "excellent" with a few hundreds in acoustic treatment (what I mean is that even the best speakers in the world could sound like crap in a crappy environment and dumb placement). Sure, some rooms are better than others, but you gotta do with what you've got!

nwohlford

I have have used an Adcom gfa-545, NAD 2600, and Proceed AMP 2, and I thought they all sound very good with the LSi9s (and 7s). I have almost always used a sub with the setup with a high pass prior to the amp. I like the Proceed the best, but it is hard to judge since it has a few extra decibels of gain and I run it balanced (which I could not do with the others).

mystik610

falconcry72 wrote: »

not sure if it's been pointed out already, but the the LSi's tweeters are more directional than other Polk speakers, so they benefit greatly from being toed in. With the LSi's there's a huge difference in sound between facing straight ahead and being toed in, whereas some other Polk speakers, RTi's included, do well both ways.

I'd recommend trying them with a hard toe in, maybe even slightly overlapping, so that you can just barely see the outsides of the cabinets from the listening position, if you haven't tried it already.

Very much true. Aside from my lsi9's, I'm running the Polk srt6500's in my mdx, which use the same ring radiator tweeter as the lsi's. The tweeters on these things are like lasers...but when they're set-up properly they image like a high-end pair of headphones. Extremely three dimensional sound, that pinpoints the placement of individual instruments in a recording.

I've also owned the rti's in the past, and while I can see why one might prefer the in your face tonal quality, I'm all about the vifa tweeter. The rti's are bright, but not necessarily as accurate. I actually find the srt's in my mdx to be a bit on the bright side, but they highlight the subtle details in a recording far better than the rti's. There's a lot lost in the recording when they highs are thrown on your face and all around the room the way the rti's do.