Education in this country

inspiredsports

What pisses me off the most is these "brain children" waste all of their time playing politics, looking over their shoulders, attempting to building consensus and looking for peer-review.

If they are so intellectually superior, why don't they just STFU and go INVENT the technology to get all of us to work and back with ZERO carbon footprint using water and biomass alone.

Show me how to comfortably exist in a mud hut and cure cancer while you at it. Make me some hemp clothing for God's sake!

Show me how to feed my family from a 10X10' plot on the porch (meatless, of course). Invent a light bulb that operates at room temperature, generates no heat and lasts forever.

I get the feeling the heat these blowhards generate talking and publishing pushes more energy into the environment than the entire, filthy, polluting Chinese production complex.

jcandy

tonyb wrote: »

Just took the first link that popped up. How about some with PHD'S, since you put so much weight on it.
http://www.petitionproject.org/

The scientific basis for this (the Oregon Petition) is given on this page (http://www.petitionproject.org/review_article.php), and consists of a single article published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. I wonder if this is a good journal to read about advances in astrophysics and engineering, too?

Also, it turns out that:

In a previous incarnation of the petition, many fake names were discovered to have been added with the aim of showing the dubious methods by which the Petition Project gathered names. These have included an actor, a senator, a fictional character and a spice girl. It would appear that a number of names are duplicates, or belong to people who have died or have since changed their minds.

disneyjoe7

Agree with Steve's post 100%, sorry for a late response.

jcandy

inspiredsports wrote: »

If they are so intellectually superior, why don't they just STFU and go INVENT the technology to get all of us to work and back with ZERO carbon footprint using water and biomass alone.

You know what I do for a living, right?

nooshinjohn

Do we care?^^^

It is obvious from your posts that you are a major cause of man-made Global BS.

steveinaz

He's a physicist.

megasat16

*sigh*

Can we go back to topics please?

nooshinjohn

steveinaz wrote: »

He's a physicist.

OOOOH!!! That's a mighty big word there Steve... does that mean he's a Mr. Smarty-Pants or somethin'.

I am a firm believer that a degree does not equate to real intelligence in many cases. If you are so hyped up as to push a false agenda rather than do your own homework and form your own opinions, you aren't as smart as you think you are. Jcandy fits this catagory perfectly.

steveinaz

I had to use spell-checker, I am blue collar afterall. Maybe a few links to my brothers writings on economics may help drive the point home, but I don't like to show my brother off.

In my "PhD" brothers' words: "A degree is nothing more than a piece of paper that shows you can complete what you start, nothing more."

nooshinjohn

^^lmao!:biggrin:

steveinaz

Here's a potential measure of education, then and now....

My dad didn't even complete the 6th grade, but he went on to the marines, later became a sheet metal mechanic/draftsmen; and worked as a very successful Real Estate agent on the weekends for over 25yrs to supplement his income. He also made a number of investments years ago, that are paying big dividends to him now. Not too shabby.

tonyb

jcandy wrote: »

The scientific basis for this (the Oregon Petition) is given on this page (http://www.petitionproject.org/review_article.php), and consists of a single article published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. I wonder if this is a good journal to read about advances in astrophysics and engineering, too?

Also, it turns out that:

In a previous incarnation of the petition, many fake names were discovered to have been added with the aim of showing the dubious methods by which the Petition Project gathered names. These have included an actor, a senator, a fictional character and a spice girl. It would appear that a number of names are duplicates, or belong to people who have died or have since changed their minds.

Lets not get into the manipulation of data, if your memory is that short. You claim the scientific community is in lockstep on this illusion, they simply are not. If you just want to quote agency's funded or formed by the United Nations, then credability just flew out the window, since the U.N. is most likely the most corrupt, worthless organization on the planet.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.....education.

tonyb

If you look at this Video, it speaks for itself. The former head of the NEA, in his farewell adress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGiuoKr-ew&feature=related

If you can listen to this,and not say the school system has misplaced values, then all is lost.

inspiredsports

jcandy wrote: »

You know what I do for a living, right?

Yes, now go do it and stop wasting your time here. Get fusion perfected or something and report back when you're done.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

If you look at this Video, it speaks for itself. The former head of the NEA, in his farewell adress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGiuoKr-ew&feature=related

If you can listen to this,and not say the school system has misplaced values, then all is lost.

Brilliant Tony... thanks for the post.

inspiredsports

tonyb wrote: »

If you look at this Video, it speaks for itself. The former head of the NEA, in his farewell adress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGiuoKr-ew&feature=related

If you can listen to this,and not say the school system has misplaced values, then all is lost.

The Teacher's Union has misplaced values.

markmarc

A little bit of clarity regarding the NEA. From my anecdotal conversations over the years with fellow teachers in the public schools (private school educators can't join the NEA like myself). The number one reason they are members is the coverage they can get for professional liability insurance. Number two is the cheap, fixed credit card rate. Three, are the other group discounts on travel, etc.. Overwhelmingly, they actually wish the NEA would back off the political front line. Unfortunately, the executive committee of the NEA is much like politicians inside the beltway, out of touch with reality.

Local teacher unions that grab media attention regularly have a similar problem in that the heads are driven by flashy issues that stand in contrast to administration. It's a major frustration with the rank and file, but only people who like playing adversarial want to run for the leadership. Many smaller districts unions have a much more realistic view, but you never hear about them, because they are busy doing the right thing.

bikezappa

jcandy wrote: »

Do you agree?

Why do you bother this forum with data?

They don't want any stinken data.

Jstas

bikezappa wrote: »

Why do you bother this forum with data?

They don't want any stinken data.

No, data sucks. Information...THAT'S where it's at!

nooshinjohn

bikezappa wrote: »

Why do you bother this forum with data?

They don't want any stinken data.

There is a difference between data and propaganda.

inspiredsports

markmarc wrote: »

A little bit of clarity regarding the NEA. From my anecdotal conversations over the years with fellow teachers in the public schools (private school educators can't join the NEA like myself). The number one reason they are members is the coverage they can get for professional liability insurance. Number two is the cheap, fixed credit card rate. Three, are the other group discounts on travel, etc.. Overwhelmingly, they actually wish the NEA would back off the political front line. Unfortunately, the executive committee of the NEA is much like politicians inside the beltway, out of touch with reality.

Local teacher unions that grab media attention regularly have a similar problem in that the heads are driven by flashy issues that stand in contrast to administration. It's a major frustration with the rank and file, but only people who like playing adversarial want to run for the leadership. Many smaller districts unions have a much more realistic view, but you never hear about them, because they are busy doing the right thing.

Not to start a big argument, BUT . . . my wife has been teaching since 1980 and I have been to hundreds of events, get-togethers, partys, weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc. with her co-teachers.

The reasons you cite are not even in the top five and those "benefits" can easily be secured elsewhere.

The NUMBER ONE REASON teachers join the union is THEY ARE STRONG-ARMED, RIDICULED, TIRE SLASHED, THREATENED, ABUSED, UNDERMINED IN THE CLASSROOM, etc., etc. and TREATED LIKE LEPERS if they don't join the union on DAY ONE of starting a new teaching job.

jcandy

nooshinjohn wrote: »

There is a difference between data and propaganda.

Yes, the former is what you find if you look at NASA, NOAA, etc. The latter is what you get from Exxon, Fox news, etc.

inspiredsports

jcandy wrote: »

Yes, the former is what you find if you look at NASA, NOAA, etc. The latter is what you get from Exxon, Fox news, etc.

Right, so get back to your mud hut, hemp clothing and bicycle (which, by the way, won't change whatever trend path the climate happens to be following right now).

Are we at lease in agreement that the infamous "hockey stick" data plot was falsified by your esteemed colleagues?

markmarc

inspiredsports wrote: »

Not to start a big argument, BUT . . . my wife has been teaching since 1980 and I have been to hundreds of events, get-togethers, partys, weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc. with her co-teachers.

The reasons you cite are not even in the top five and those "benefits" can easily be secured elsewhere.

The NUMBER ONE REASON teachers join the union is THEY ARE STRONG-ARMED, RIDICULED, TIRE SLASHED, THREATENED, ABUSED, UNDERMINED IN THE CLASSROOM, etc., etc. and TREATED LIKE LEPERS if they don't join the union on DAY ONE of starting a new teaching job.

Then I feel honestly very sorry for your wife, Inspired. Your example is just as anecdotal as mine. Maybe it's the part of the country you live in as compared to me. Out west, maybe unions don't seem to have the kind of ridiculous bully tactics where I've taught. It's fair to say that Ohio, being a part of the industrialized rust belt has a long history of heavy-handed union activism. Unfortunately, it has spilled over, that is a pathetic commentary on the organization your wife deals with.

As for accessing the professional liability insurance, actually it's getting very difficult, and the rates are quite obscene compared to what the NEA charges.

jcandy

inspiredsports wrote: »

Are we at lease in agreement that the infamous "hockey stick" data plot was falsified by your esteemed colleagues?

No, the "hockey stick" shape is a fact. The accusations of falsification were misguided, and "two reviews commissioned by Pennsylvania State University cleared Mann of allegations of ethical misconduct arising out of the content of the emails" (Wikipedia). Moreover, 12 papers published between 2000 and 2005 have confirmed that the the hockey-stick part of the plot is actually the most accurate and robust of all parts of the plot, and that the upward trend is slightly more dramatic (red/orange) than originally suggested (blues).



1. (dark blue 1000-1991): P.D. Jones, K.R. Briffa, T.P. Barnett, and S.F.B. Tett (1998). , The Holocene, 8: 455-471.
2. (blue 1000-1980): M.E. Mann, R.S. Bradley, and M.K. Hughes (1999). , Geophysical Research Letters, 26(6): 759-762.
3. (light blue 1000-1965): Crowley and Lowery (2000). , Ambio, 29: 51-54. Modified as published in Crowley (2000). , Science, 289: 270-277.
4. (lightest blue 1402-1960): K.R. Briffa, T.J. Osborn, F.H. Schweingruber, I.C. Harris, P.D. Jones, S.G. Shiyatov, S.G. and E.A. Vaganov (2001). , J. Geophys. Res., 106: 2929-2941.
5. (light green 831-1992): J. Esper, E.R. Cook, and F.H. Schweingruber (2002). , Science, 295(5563): 2250-2253.
6. (yellow 200-1980): M.E. Mann and P.D. Jones (2003). , Geophysical Research Letters, 30(15): 1820. doi:10.1029/2003GL017814.
7. (orange 200-1995): P.D. Jones and M.E. Mann (2004). , Reviews of Geophysics, 42: RG2002. doi:10.1029/2003RG000143
8. (red-orange 1500-1980): S. Huang (2004). , Geophys. Res Lett., 31: L13205. doi:10.1029/2004GL019781
9. (red 1-1979): A. Moberg, D.M. Sonechkin, K. Holmgren, N.M. Datsenko and W. Karl?n (2005). , Nature, 443: 613-617. doi:10.1038/nature03265
10. (dark red 1600-1990): J.H. Oerlemans (2005). , Science, 308: 675-677. doi:10.1126/science.1107046

(black 1856-2004):
Instrumental data was jointly compiled by the Climatic Research Unit and the UK Meteorological Office Hadley Centre. Global Annual Average data set TaveGL2v [2] was used.

From Wikipedia:

More than twelve subsequent scientific papers, using various statistical methods and combinations of proxy records, produced reconstructions broadly similar to the original MBH hockey-stick graph, with variations in how flat the pre-20th century "shaft" appears. Almost all of them supported the IPCC conclusion that the warmest decade in 1000 years was probably that at the end of the 20th century.[6]

jcandy

inspiredsports wrote: »

Right, so get back to your mud hut, hemp clothing and bicycle (which, by the way, won't change whatever trend path the climate happens to be following right now).

No, but powering hydrogen fuel cells with energy generated by fusion reactors will. You could finance the design and contruction of these reactors by adding a penny to the cost of a gallon of gas.

steveinaz

Oh...now I'm getting it. If we don't address global warming, we won't have to worry about revamping the education system? Is that the tie-in to the original topic?

That was a nice way of saying "start your own thread" if want to talk about global warming.

Demiurge

Finally, teachers in Wisconsin will rise through the ranks based on the merits of their work, not the length of time they've spent at their job. Finally, students in Wisconsin will get an education from the most effective teachers and won't have to put up with the worst.

Ah, what a great day!

jcandy

steveinaz wrote: »

Oh...now I'm getting it. If we don't address global warming, we won't have to worry about revamping the education system? Is that the tie-in to the original topic?

My bad. I should stop talking about climate. Here's some data that shows how parent's income affects school performance:



Anyone care to interpret the data?

nooshinjohn

Care to interpret this data Jcandy?