TSA is sure classy

inspiredsports

There have been few salient points made in this ridiculous thread, so I'll make a few.

Back to the original poster and the case of the woman from 2 years ago suing the TSA.

She was correct that back then. What happened to her was ILLEGAL. Her case is even more poigniant today.

MEMORIZE THIS, PEOPLE:

"What I can't legally do, the government can't legally do."

"What the government can't legally do, I don't have the right to do."

There's no middle ground; If I am not allowed to touch the screeners in exactly the way they touch me, they are acting illegally.

Make no mistake about this: They can NOT legally touch you, they can NOT legally touch your children, they can NOT arrest you if you refuse to be touched, additionally, they CAN'T legally irradiate you.

It's as simple as that, and if you don't understand it, you do not understand the US Constitution and what makes you free.

If we give our freedoms up, the basic complexion of humanity will be lost.

I'm being as serious a a heart attack here folks; I'd rather my family and I flat out die in a plane than give up these basic rights.

brettw22

inspiredsports wrote: »

"What I can't legally do, the government can't legally do."

"What the government can't legally do, I don't have the right to do."

There's no middle ground; If I am not allowed to touch the screeners in exactly the way they touch me, they are acting illegally.

Make no mistake about this: They can NOT legally touch you, they can NOT legally touch your children, they can NOT arrest you if you refuse to be touched, additionally, they CAN'T legally irradiate you.

So to parallel your comment, (and before any of you get your undies sucked up your rears because you're twitch fingers are ready to fire off a freakfest -- I'm not comparing the screeners to cops - but he brought in the Gov't umbrella) if a cop can pat me down, I should be able to instruct him to let me frisk him/her? Would that be a correct statement based on what you just typed?

MillerLiteScott

Brett, Police do not pat down everyone that walks by them.

inspiredsports

brettw22 wrote: »

So to parallel your comment, (and before any of you get your undies sucked up your rears because you're twitch fingers are ready to fire off a freakfest -- I'm not comparing the screeners to cops - but he brought in the Gov't umbrella) if a cop can pat me down, I should be able to instruct him to let me frisk him/her? Would that be a correct statement based on what you just typed?

"Stop and Frisk" was invented in 1968, not by the drafters of the Constitution.

I understand all of the arguments about officer safety, criminals being discovered, etc., etc., ad naseum . . . but it is illegal search and seizure and not constitutional.

brettw22

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

Brett, Police do not pat down everyone that walks by them.

I don't think y'all understand.......NOR DOES THE TSA

Pat downs are a secondary form of security, or primary if one refuses the initial (be it metal detectors or image machines).

If you think that the tens of millions of passengers flying every day are all being searched as pictured in the news, you're dead wrong.

nooshinjohn

brettw22 wrote: »

If you're going to split hairs to avoid what you said, I don't know how you really expect me to respond to you. Creator, Buddha, God, Zeus, whatever.....


Your position is rooted in idiotic fantasies that aren't reality. The problem is you DO equate a pat down to a body cavity search. What exactly do you hope to accomplish by making such bizarre leaps?

The spectrum you run is hard to digest.......it's either splitting hairs, or its gross over exaggeration to what reality is; neither of which is conducive to anything constructive.

Not splitting hairs Brett. If you believe in a creator great, if not that's cool too. The point is that our FOUNDERS DID, and they believed that our rights come from that creator. If you remove this fact from our founding, then the rest falls like a house of cards. If there is no creator in play, then the government becomes the giver (and taker) of your rights. This is exactly what has been happening for the past 100 years and the smear campaigns and revisionist histories being done about our founders and their beliefs is a testament to that.

Idiotic fantasy is to continue to believe that the obvious is not happening even when it is right in front of you. Jefferson being cavity searched is an overstatement, I agree. That said, I use the absurd to point out absurdity. If you were to visualize anyone trying to lay their hands on the founders for the intent of searching them, chances are you would have been on the wrong end of a pistol.

All I am trying to illustrate for you is that what we have here in this country is unique and truly special. It was made so by the nature of our beginnings. Because of that foundation, we rose to become the greatest nation the world has ever known. I don't want to see it all undone by 19 a$$holes and those of their ilk because we are all to scared to stand up as our founders did.

mrbigbluelight

But not everyone who walks by a police(wo)man is attempting to board a plane.

Flying on a plane is considered, if I'm not mistaken, not a "right" but falls into the category of "privilege" and is treated much differently than a "right" which carries a lot more protection under the Constitution.

Even some of those rights have been, IMO, erroded: warrantless searchs for instance.
But, similar to driving a car, flying on a plane is not considered a "right".

inspiredsports

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

But not everyone who walks by a police(wo)man is attempting to board a plane.

Flying on a plane is considered, if I'm not mistaken, not a "right" but falls into the category of "privilege" and is treated much differently than a "right" which carries a lot more protection under the Constitution.

Even some of those rights have been, IMO, erroded: warrantless searchs for instance.
But, similar to driving a car, flying on a plane is not considered a "right".

But consider this. How did the government get involved in air travel anyway?

If a particular brand airline wants to have a particular screening policy, fine. But how is it all of the sudden mandated that screeners can do something to us that we can't legally do to them or anyone else?

There is a huge difference between private policy, and what they are trying now to pass off as law with punishments.

So let's assume for a minute we give up 100% of any rights we have at the airport, let's say we allow dissection and restitching of all passangers, and magically make it 100% impossible for terrorists to use planes as a weapon of terror. Has terrorism been eliminated ???????

brettw22

inspired, quit it with the giant font......

If you go through a metal detector and you set it off, you'll be asked to go through it again and if you set it off again, you'll be patted down.

If you go through a metal detector and you do not set it off, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you go through an image machine and you are cleared, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you head through an image machine and something is found to be suspicious, then you will be patted down.

This is how this works people....

inspiredsports

brettw22 wrote: »

inspired, quit it with the giant font......

If you go through a metal detector and you set it off, you'll be asked to go through it again and if you set it off again, you'll be patted down.

If you go through a metal detector and you do not set it off, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you go through an image machine and you are cleared, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you head through an image machine and something is found to be suspicious, then you will be patted down.

This is how this works people....

So does this eliminate terrorism ?? 100%? for sure?

brettw22

if you're asking if the procedures will verify whether I have a bomb, weapons, etc, then yes.

If you're asking if the procedures will eliminate my hateful attitude towards people, no.

nooshinjohn

brettw22 wrote: »

inspired, quit it with the giant font......

If you go through a metal detector and you set it off, you'll be asked to go through it again and if you set it off again, you'll be patted down.

If you go through a metal detector and you do not set it off, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you go through an image machine and you are cleared, you gather your belongings and head to the gate.

If you head through an image machine and something is found to be suspicious, then you will be patted down.

This is how this works people....

You are wrong again. This is how it USED to work. Not that long ago, a guest or two could accompany you to the gate as well.

Now, you are chosen at random and required to submit to screening. It happens to me ALL the time, and I am as all-American as they come. My wife, who is Persian, her father, and the entire family get not even a second look... just me.

This is how it works today....

brettw22

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You are wrong again. This is how it USED to work. Not that long ago, a guest or two could accompany you to the gate as well.

Now, you are chosen at random and required to submit to screening. It happens to me ALL the time, and I am as all-American as they come. My wife, who is Persian, her father, and the entire family get not even a second look... just me.

This is how it works today....

When did you travel last?

I believe guests got nixed post 9/11. I had friends at a gate when i moved to another state in '97, but dont' know when the official cease was on that. Even from 9/11, that's not 'recent'.....

I could honestly see YOU being pulled aside because of a **** attitude.......not being an ****, but when you go through security screening, it would behoove you to not act like you're a victim of a repressive regime and give off an attitude.....

inspiredsports

brettw22 wrote: »

if you're asking if the procedures will verify whether I have a bomb, weapons, etc, then yes.

If you're asking if the procedures will eliminate my hateful attitude towards people, no.

No, I mean will we then have to give up some more rights because they start to use busses, and subways, and taxi cabs, and garbage trucks, and baby strollers, and audio speakers?

inspiredsports

brettw22 wrote: »

When did you travel last?

I believe guests got nixed post 9/11. I had friends at a gate when i moved to another state in '97, but dont' know when the official cease was on that. Even from 9/11, that's not 'recent'.....

I could honestly see YOU being pulled aside because of a **** attitude.......not being an ****, but when you go through security screening, it would behoove you to not act like you're a victim of a repressive regime......

. . even though you ARE the victim of a repressive machine.

brettw22

I'm not for body scanners, and I've made that clear.

When I travel, I go through the lines that don't have the scanners and I make sure all metal is removed from my pockets. It takes me a matter of 30-45 seconds from the point I hit the bins to the time I am off to the gates usually......

nooshinjohn

brettw22 wrote: »

When did you travel last?

I believe guests got nixed post 9/11. I had friends at a gate when i moved to another state in '97, but dont' know when the official cease was on that. Even from 9/11, that's not 'recent'.....

I could honestly see YOU being pulled aside because of a **** attitude.......not being an ****, but when you go through security screening, it would behoove you to not act like you're a victim of a repressive regime......

So much gets lost between the lines of a post on the web... I am actually quite an easy-going and helpful person, known by my friends to go above and beyond to help others wherever I can. I don't get flustered by life's ups and downs.

I have been chastised here for mentioning my military affiliations, so I won't, but lets just say that once you take an oath to protect and defend, and you have a deep understanding of history as I do, watching the land you love being transformed before your eyes is hard to watch. This is made even more difficult when nobody tells the truth about what we are being transformed into.

One thing certain is that history does repeat itself and where this slippery slope leads scares the crap out of me.


Nothing against you Brett as you seem like a decent guy, I just think you need to truly understand history, which is deeper and more intimate than the pat-down they give it in schools these days.

avelanchefan

Whats comical to me is that the Israeli's have been doing this for what......40-50+ years. Never heard of an Israeli complain about going through their airports in Tel Aviv or any where else in Israel or the world for that matter.

My parents traveled to Israel in the late 70's and all of their suitcases and belongings were searched thoroughly. My dad put my moms underwear on his head during the search, some people found it hilarious, the Israeli military did not. Nor did my mom for the matter.....

Any ways point is, this **** with the POS terrorists (as ben62670 so eloquently said) has been going on for a long time, unfortunately we are now seeing the ramifications of their tactics. And its not going to go away.

Demiurge

This isn't providing any security whatsoever. Its theater, and some of you are goaded into it in the name of safety. If it actually did anything to deal with a real threat, I'd look at it more seriously.

If all of this elevated security was based on checking out suspicious individuals I wouldn't have any problem with this because they would be employing some level in intelligence in carrying this out. As it is right now, they are most definitely not.

The TSA isn't looking for any terrorists -- they're looking for "stuff."

Oh, and Israel operates nothing like our BS TSA does. It would be nice if they did.

The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

"Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, 'So far, so good'. Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable

"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."

I'm glad so many Americans are standing up to this. I hope more people make it as uncomfortable as possible for the TSA workers. They're just regular people punching a time clock. There's only so much they'll be willing to put up with, too.

wuz_maximillian

I flew into Tel Aviv 2 weeks after the Marriott Hotel bombing in Syria in Sept. 2008. I went through Israeli security in Germany. Although there were about a dozen questions I can tell you it was more pleasurable than the TSA in America. The Israeli security are more professional and are simply doing THEIR job - enforcing security. I was questioned by one lady for a few minutes. She was especially interested in my laptop and asked if anyone else had handled it. Since it was a work issued laptop she was concerned about our IT department and their nationality. However my answers seemed to address her concerns and she let me go. Total ordeal was probably 1 minute long.

There were two men with Uzi's behind her that did not interfere at all. I could have cared less about them since I knew they were there just in case things got out of hand. For all the passengers flying that day, there wasn't any commotion at all.

In contrast the TSA agents are just plain jerks. I really suspect that they only care about their paychecks and are so sick of dealing with the public. They are NOT professional in their conduct. I have been yelled at for little things on several occasions.

tonyb

Demiurge wrote: »

.

The TSA isn't looking for any terrorists -- they're looking for "stuff."

.

That kinda puts it in a nutshell Dave.

You also have to wonder while everyone is so concerned about air safety, will it not be resonable to expect something else to blow up ? Like in a football stadium with 70,000 fans packed in ? Could be worse than 9-11 if you look at the possible body count if that ever happened. Then what ? X-ray machines and pat downs before you go to a game ? The use of logic in all this is absent. The ability to indentify the criminal is also absent. If a guy breaks into your house, steals your stuff, and a neighbor tells the police he saw a hispanic running away with your stuff, do the police stop every White, Asian,Black, looking person they see ? No, they look for one that fits the description of the perp. When all the threats against us come from the middle east, suddenly all americans are suspect ? Where's the logic in that ?

madmax

They keep making the point that the screener is always a same sex person. **** are a recognized group in America. Should **** be searched by women? This is a serious question. The point they are making about it being the same sex person is to imply there is nothing sexual about it. If you are bi then do you get a pass? Or maybe it is the persuasion of the screener, not the screenie? What about people who have changed sex? All these questions are going to show up in the courts, you can believe that!

brettw22

madmax wrote: »

They keep making the point that the screener is always a same sex person. **** are a recognized group in America. Should **** be searched by women? This is a serious question.

You're an idiot and the fact that you believe that's a serious question pushes you WAY over that edge.

nooshinjohn

^^^And calling people names is a great way to make your case.:rolleyes:

brettw22

trust me......my typing the word idiot has no bearing on the category that type of thought process put him into....

it's that type of mental infancy that America seems to be willing to put up with........THAT'S what's disturbing....

nooshinjohn

Define "mental infancy" for me... Are you saying that those of us that have conservative beliefs, rooted in our founding principles, have somehow not matured enough to accept the "progressive" version of what our country is being transformed into?

bobman1235

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Define "mental infancy" for me... Are you saying that those of us that have conservative beliefs, rooted in our founding principles, have somehow not matured enough to accept the "progressive" version of what our country is being transformed into?

I'd say when it comes to a point of not even understanding what "****" means, whether you accept it or not? Probably.

The idea that "conservative beliefs rooted in founding principles" would somehow include exclusion and persecution of a group is pretty backwards in my mind, honestly.

EndersShadow

lol...this just adds how little TSA actually picks up:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/adam-savage-tsa-saw-my-junk-missed-12-razor-blades.ars

If the TSA thinks you can hijack a plane with saline solution and nail clippers, Savage's 12" razor blades are the equivalent of a nuclear bomb. Since the blades weren't anywhere near Savage's privates, they likely would have been missed by the pat-down as well.

F1nut

The ability to identify the criminal is also absent. If a guy breaks into your house, steals your stuff, and a neighbor tells the police he saw a hispanic running away with your stuff, do the police stop every White, Asian,Black, looking person they see ? No, they look for one that fits the description of the perp. When all the threats against us come from the middle east, suddenly all americans are suspect ? Where's the logic in that ?

Exactly!

madmax

brettw22 wrote: »

You're an idiot and the fact that you believe that's a serious question pushes you WAY over that edge.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Edit: And you WILL see this come up in the court system if this screening continues!