TSA is sure classy

polktiger

I don't approve of the TSA's methods simply becuase I think there are more effective methods that are not being used adequately today. As said above, I also think this is more of a dog and pony show move to create the illusion of security "we are the gov't we are protecting you." None of this would have prevented the bombs that were sent via FedEx or UPS about a month ago - note that cargo hitches a ride on our commerical planes too.

But, this is a typical governement response to a problem. For now, my wife and I will be driving. We will just change our vacation plans to places we can drive to.

polktiger

madmax wrote: »

So here is a theory. Our current government wants a national ID card so bad they can taste it, they have for years. Get people around the world so fed up with this groping situation that violence breaks out. Well guess what the answer to the problem will be. I rest my case.

I know they have wanted a national ID card, but have never understood how that is substantially any different than a passport. (Unless I guess non citizens could get a national ID card.)

dkg999

I fly two to four times a month, sometimes more. While I agree there has to be a better way to screen passengers, and I'm pretty much a slightly right of center independent who actively fights for the freedoms we have and have lost, for right now there probably isn't a better way in the US. The good news is the message seems to have gotten heard. So hopefully this is a short term issue. We should never give up freedom or allow government encroachment of our lives without putting up a fight. On the other hand, I do agree in spirit with Brett's comments that maybe a little more constructive push-back and less blowing things out or proportion is in order.

bobman1235

polktiger wrote: »

I know they have wanted a national ID card, but have never understood how that is substantially any different than a passport. (Unless I guess non citizens could get a national ID card.)

Citizens who don't wish to travel abroad are not required to have a passport.

The idea behind a national ID card is that every citizen would need one.

polktiger

bobman1235 wrote: »

Citizens who don't wish to travel abroad are not required to have a passport.

The idea behind a national ID card is that every citizen would need one.

I understand the distinction, that not every citizen is required to have a passport, but why create a new form of ID. Why not just require everyone to have their passport instead of some national ID. I just don't see how a national ID is substantially any different than a passport. (Except of course that it creates a new beaucracy to create power for someone.)

TNRabbit

polktiger wrote: »

I know they have wanted a national ID card, but have never understood how that is substantially any different than a passport. (Unless I guess non citizens could get a national ID card.)

Because a passport costs $75 & not everyone has one (most of the U.S. doesn't).

bobman1235

polktiger wrote: »

I understand the distinction, that not every citizen is required to have a passport, but why create a new form of ID. Why not just require everyone to have their passport instead of some national ID. I just don't see how a national ID is substantially any different than a passport. (Except of course that it creates a new beaucracy to create power for someone.)

Ah. I always assumed it was just because a passport is kind of a hassle to carry, form-factor wise. It doesn't exactly fit in the old wallet.

thsmith

Yawn :rolleyes:

messiah

messiah wrote: »

Come on Bob, you didn't get the memo? I'll give you the Readers Digest version. It's not cool to be patriotic. If you don't give up your freedom willingly, you're a crackpot and your head is wrapped in aluminum foil……blah blah blah blah blah

This is really how you think?

No, I don't think in blah, blah blahs. Since you were disrespectful enough to alter my post, I'll re post it the way it was originally written:

Come on Bob, you didn't get the memo? I'll give you the Readers Digest version. It's not cool to be patriotic. If you don't give up your freedom willingly, you're a crackpot and your head is wrapped in aluminum foil. We don't need to call BS when we see it, we need to be complacent and passive like good little sheep. We should bend over and take it like an inmate, and do it with a smile. We don't know what's best for us, the government does. We need to ignore the Million gallons of blood our servicemen gave up in defense of our great nation and constitution. Only then can we have hope and change. Always try to remember that if something seems wrong to you, it's because the aluminum foil is wrapped too tightly around your head. Freedom just isn't worth it anymore, we need to be safe instead.

Get with the program Bob. :rolleyes:

If you don't like my posts Brett, feel free to add me to your ignore list, but do not misquote me. :mad:

brettw22

You were quoted........the rest of the stuff i yadda'd over........trust me, it can/will be done.......

brettw22

madmax wrote: »

So here is a theory. Our current government wants a national ID card so bad they can taste it, they have for years. Get people around the world so fed up with this groping situation that violence breaks out. Well guess what the answer to the problem will be. I rest my case.

= definition of Conspiracy Theory (just sayin)

cokewithvanilla

zombie boy 2000

I once tried to use my passport as an ID to get into a casino (having been unable to find my license earlier). They wouldn't accept it. Of course, I was quick to point out that this was probably the most "official" form of ID one could carry on their person. The guy was not amused and basically told me to take a hike. Not that there is a point to this story...

Danny Tse

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

I once tried to use my passport as an ID to get into a casino (having been unable to find my license earlier). They wouldn't accept it. Of course, I was quick to point out that this was probably the most "official" form of ID one could carry on their person. The guy was not amused and basically told me to take a hike. Not that there is a point to this story...

That's odd. If I am a foreigner and I encounter a similar situation, I'd think a passport would be more than sufficient. What more can I show the casino? My foreigner driver's license? My foreign library card?

Danny Tse

Btw, doesn't it bother anyone that Michael Chertoff, the former Secretary of Homeland Security and body-scanner proponent, is now, ahem, a consultant to Rapiscan. The Feds spend over $40 million on Rapiscan's machines.

And to think I get criticized for getting a free plastic Bic pen from Verizon.

nooshinjohn

Danny Tse wrote: »

Btw, doesn't it bother anyone that Michael Chertoff, the former Secretary of Homeland Security and body-scanner proponent, is now, ahem, a consultant to Rapistscan. The Feds spend over $40 million on Rapiscan's machines.

And to think I get criticized for getting a free plastic Bic pen from Verizon.

Fixed!


And yes, I have huge problems with the cronyism that is taking place in the name of "protecting the children."

brettw22

noosh, you must be a blast in person

nooshinjohn

brettw22 wrote: »

noosh, you must be a blast in person

To know me is to love me!:rolleyes:


Say hi to Donny & Marie for me.

brettw22

I doubt it.........and they're in Vegas.

cokewithvanilla

I haven't really kept up with this thread, so I don't know if it has been mentioned... but what really makes me mad about searches is the whole 'profiling' issue. Due to the whole stink about profiling, 80 year old women have to be searched just as often as 23 year old non-English speaking Muslims that wear "I hate America" signs on their backs.

Can anyone have a bomb? Sure.... is there a crowd that is more likely to have one than others... definitely. Why should we have to ignore this in the name of "progress"?

messiah

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I haven't really kept up with this thread, so I don't know if it has been mentioned... but what really makes me mad about searches is the whole 'profiling' issue. Due to the whole stink about profiling, 80 year old women have to be searched just as often as 23 year old non-English speaking Muslims that wear "I hate America" signs on their backs.

Can anyone have a bomb? Sure.... is there a crowd that is more likely to have one than others... definitely. Why should we have to ignore this in the name of "progress"?

Profiling makes perfect sense, and is probably the most effective method. Unfortunately, as we've seen in Arizona, people got their wittle itty bitty feewings hurt, so we can't do that. No way, that's a no-no.

nooshinjohn

Brett... I think what you are missing here in this discussion is that those of us that oppose these scanners/invasive pat-downs are basing our opposition on principles that go back to the beginning of human-kind. It was not until the founding of this nation that a people finally understood what true freedom was and where that freedom came from. To each of us were given certain unalienable rights, and those rights, having originated from our creator, cannot be infringed upon. To guarantee the sanctity of those rights, our founders pledged their fortunes, their lives, and their sacred honor.(Honor meant more than life itself to these men.)

We were founded on principles that have been under assault now for more than 100 years, and I cannot fault those that do not know or understand them, because they are not being taught anymore. The individual was the most important and individual liberty was the foundation this country stood upon. That has given way to collectivism, government handouts, and collective salvation. All of these ideas are rooted in concepts that are diametrically opposed to freedom and are a perversion of our founding ideals.

All I ask is that before you find fault with the beliefs of those that are firmly rooted in the founding principles of our country, it would be a good idea to understand why we feel as strongly as we do about the direction we are headed. You just might come away with a vastly different point of view. I know mine changed considerably once I came to understand the "original intent" argument and our founders.

madmax

brettw22 wrote: »

= definition of Conspiracy Theory (just sayin)

I'll be quoting this later...

brettw22

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Brett... I think what you are missing here in this discussion is that those of us that oppose these scanners/invasive pat-downs are basing our opposition on principles that go back to the beginning of human-kind. It was not until the founding of this nation that a people finally understood what true freedom was and where that freedom came from. To each of us were given certain unalienable rights, and those rights, having originated from our creator, cannot be infringed upon. To guarantee the sanctity of those rights, our founders pledged their fortunes, their lives, and their sacred honor.(Honor meant more than life itself to these men.)

We were founded on principles that have been under assault now for more than 100 years, and I cannot fault those that do not know or understand them, because they are not being taught anymore. All I ask is that before you find fault with the beliefs of those that are firmly rooted in the founding principles of our country, it would be a good idea to understand why we feel as strongly as we do about the direction we are headed.

You just might come away with a vastly different point of view. I know mine changed considerably once I came to understand the "original intent" argument and our founders.

So God told us that we would never have to be patted down and created a law that said no scanner shall ever view thy flesh throughout your clothing? I realize that my summary is lunacy.....but that IS what comes across from you. And no, my pointing out how I think that sounds insane doesn't mean I hate God.......or that I'm Aetheist, or that I'm a ****, or whatever......it means that i disagree with the context of the arguement.

I know i know.....Michelle Bachman told us that we never ever compromise on our 'principles'......(rally cry for any remote issue deemed 'principlish' that "they" will dig in against.....trust). I guarantee that EVERYTHING remotely Democratish will be labeled as "against our principles" and be the reason Republicans are nothing more than roadblocks for the next 2 years.....

I understand SOME of the intent of the issue, but the problem 'your side' has is that it takes an issue (patting down of a kid), and blows the ever living hell out of it (the child was molested/assaulted/both), to the point that it turns people off. Does that mean I disagree with push back against the new changes? No. It means that I could care less what your personal problems are with the situation if it means that I have to take a tour of your flavor of crazy.

I completely agree that children and elderlies pose less of a threat blah blah blah, but who in their right mind would actually say something like "senior citizens pose less of a threat so we aren't ever going to touch them"........

fatchowmein

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gdb

Big deal, patrons of titty bars have endured pat downs for a long time now.:rolleyes:Then....... they get smacked in the face with mammaries during the lap dances!Talk about indignity !!!:biggrin:

Danny Tse

gdb wrote: »

Big deal, patrons of titty bars have endured pat downs for a long time now.:rolleyes:Then....... they get smacked in the face with mammaries during the lap dances!Talk about indignity !!!:biggrin:

Which reminds me....does celebrities like Katy Perry get patted down like us normal folks? :biggrin:

nooshinjohn

Brett...I never said a thing about God, nor did I mention politics, and who in the hell is Michelle Bachman???

My take on this issue is firmly rooted in a clear and full understanding of our founding principles. Imagine Thomas Jefferson submitting to a cavity search before he entered that sacred hall inside which our nation was founded. I know I cannot... my position is rooted in principle, not politics or faith.

mrbigbluelight

bobman1235 wrote: »

Untrue. If everyone stood up to this and said "no, this is too far" then it would stop. Immediately. If today everyone who flew, or even a majority of people who flew, put their foot down and said "no f-ing way is this happening" the rules would be changed tomorrow.

Agree on that.
It would stop immediately, but .... the people planning on flying that day aren't going to fly.
The rules would, IMO, change the next day; I agree.

Whether that is a good thing, or that is a bad thing, can certainly bring some differing opinions, to be sure.


While seniors and very young children themselves don't have any major political agendas (if at all), they are just as suspect as those who might be "profiled".
Used as unsuspecting mules, they can carry stuff (unknowingly) that can cause major damage.

brettw22

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Brett...I never said a thing about God

nooshinjohn wrote: »

those rights, having originated from our creator, cannot be infringed upon.

If you're going to split hairs to avoid what you said, I don't know how you really expect me to respond to you. Creator, Buddha, God, Zeus, whatever.....

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Imagine Thomas Jefferson submitting to a cavity search before he entered that sacred hall inside which our nation was founded. I know I cannot... my position is rooted in principle, not politics or faith.

Your position is rooted in idiotic fantasies that aren't reality. The problem is you DO equate a pat down to a body cavity search. What exactly do you hope to accomplish by making such bizarre leaps?

The spectrum you run is hard to digest.......it's either splitting hairs, or its gross over exaggeration to what reality is; neither of which is conducive to anything constructive.