cable break in believer

steveinaz

...so, no one will accept my perfectly functional .99 cent IC's?

DarqueKnight

jinjuku wrote: »

LOL! Oh let the excuses roll. Keep back peddling guys. Soon as someone puts up some cash and calls you on it...

BTW I PM'd William2 before this got rolling with all the excuses you were going to use before I posted. Saw it all a mile away.

*I* am not back peddling and I am not making excuses. I am simply not interested in the cable you offered.

I don't think that cable break in is restricted to high performance cables, but that is what I am most interested in at this point.

If you want to submit a low noise cable design I will be happy to review it. You can keep your $100 dollars.

I'm sorry that our joy of cables causes you and others such distress to the point that you are willing to pay us to prove what we hear.

ohskigod

jinjuku wrote: »

BTW I PM'd William2 before this got rolling with all the excuses you were going to use before I posted. Saw it all a mile away.

so, let me get this right. you knew all the counter arguments, yet decided to have the argument anyway? Dude, thats just showing a lack of respect for yourself? why bother? surely your time is worth more.

steveinaz

I say again:

Many are "booing" aftermarket cables, yet no one is using the standard nickle plated/plastic IC's...I'm confused. Are you saying we're "OK" (credible) as long as we don't spend more than you on cables? So at what price point do I move from "responsible consumer" to "audiophile idiot?" Is there a board that makes this determination?

Do you guys even hear yourselves? Sheesh

Anyone?

Climb out of the box. There's a big, beautiful world that awaits you.

jaxwired

Keiko wrote: »

Enjoy the ride, jayman, but you can believe it! Whenever anyone posts a positive finding in regards to cables, it sends our village idiots into a frenzy. They have no experience, yet can't help themselves. Must be a troll thing.

Anyway, enjoy and thanks for sharing.

It is annoying, maybe you could start a new web site called EveryoneThatAgreesWithMe.com.

I imagine the theads would be endlessly fascinating...

jaxwired

steveinaz wrote: »

I see you use Belden/Canare combo IC's....pretty respectable choices for a "wire is wire" guy, dontcha think? I'm ready to ship these .99 cent IC's to you, anytime you're ready.

Many are "booing" aftermarket cables, yet no one is using the standard nickle plated/plastic IC's...I'm confused. Are you saying we're "OK" (credible) as long as we don't spend more than you on cables? So at what price point do I move from "responsible consumer" to "audiophile idiot?" Is there a board that makes this determination?

Do you guys even hear yourselves? Sheesh.

Excellent point. It's a lot like highway driving. People that drive slower are grandpa morons, and people that drive faster are crazy maniacs.

So I guess, to answer your question, anyone that spends less than me on cables is a fool that is leaving greater performance untapped and everyone that spends more is a dellusional sucker. For $5 I can tell you if you've spent the right amount...

steveinaz

It's all about different levels of passion in the hobby. I think it's nuts that people collect thousands of dollars in toy trains--but who am I to judge? If that's your passion, that's all that matters.

My point is this; no one is interested in taking up the $100 challenge anymore than they are in for replacing their IC's with my wonderful .99 cent gems. And that's where an intelligent, thoughtful discussion ends; and silly name calling begins. Who cares at the end of the day? Do what you will, it's your system, your dime.

jinjuku

DarqueKnight wrote: »

You need to calm down.

Did you not see the part where I told you I WAS NOT interested in reviewing the Belden cable, but I would be glad to review a high performance cable, and that I would pay shipping both ways? You should be able to tell from my writings that I am primarily interested in well engineered, low-noise cable designs. I would not expect the 58 cents per foot Belden 5000 to meet this criteria, although I am sure it is excellent for the applications it is designed for.

Sorry all I saw was the part where you started 'qualifying' everything:rolleyes: Obviously physics only play with a higher cost cable. BTW MIT products you are most likely referring to aren't cables. They have a box of passive electronics in the chain.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Ok. Well there you go. Rather than waiving your $100 and 58 cents per foot Belden cable in our faces, why don't you submit a detailed review of your findings?

I'm not the one talking about cable burn in and audible differences.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I get substantially more than $100 just for showing up, just for walking through the door, at a consultative session. Thanks anyway.

Hey that makes both of us. My retainer is $450 for simply showing up at a consulting session (helps weed out the non-serious customers).

Just another excuse DK.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

My article on the historical overview of stereophonic blind testing unequivocally demonstrated that the objectivists have been proving themselves wrong for decades with their testing methodology that says everything sounds alike. It seems to be the objectivists who have something to prove as they are the ones always demanding proof. Furthermore, as my article on the history of subjective audio evaluation demonstrated, the objectivists promote a testing methodology that was outright rejected by the inventor and other seminal researchers in the development of stereophonic home audio systems. Obviously, the objectivists "belive" that they know more about the testing of stereo systems than the people who invented it!:D

I get invited to participate in reviews and beta trials all the time. Sometimes I accept and sometimes I do not. I have been offered reviewer positions at several audio publications. I politely declined each one. Accepting a reviewer position would mean that I would spend a lot of time listening to gear that I have no interest in. I just don't have the time to devote to that right now.

Good for you. Let me know when AES gets around to your article and switching up from A/B/X to your schema.

steveinaz

Jinjuku
Why did you decide to go DIY with your cables? Did you feel an advantage existed over stock? Did you want better build quality? Why Belden wire? Why Canare connectors? Are they superior in some way? Will your electrons flow better knowing it's belden cable they are swimming down?

If I were a .99 cent cable user, could I not criticize your choice as a waste of money? Could you prove me scientifically wrong?

Catchin' my drift yet?

You DIY'd your cables because (A) You CAN. and (B) You wanted to. That's cool.

cstmar01

So Jinjuku let me get this straight. Prior to your coming in here and going on and on and fighting with people you PMed another member about how you were going to go about it?

Hmmm trying to once again "flush" the crap from clubpolk? What is your purpose?

I really fail to understand what is the big deal that someone else spent money, enjoyed what they heard and reported it that it causes you guys to get so uptight that you need to then prove everyone else wrong.

Do you do this in your personal life over everything? so your wife comes home with an opinion and you then go to great lengths to prove her wrong because it differs from yours?

What the hell is the point, we get it, you don't beleive in it. No one wants to do your stupid freakin' test. Grow the hell up, you are worse than a 2 year old crying of attention because another kid showed up and all of a sudden you weren't the most important thing in the room.

And yeah, you're trolling. Its annoying as crap, William and you like to show up in certain types of threads each time to try and disprove others, and after the 10000 time doing it, I think you got your point across but no one I can see in the thread is jumping on your bandwagon any time soon, so whats the point?

tonyb

Apparently, his thought is why spend the coin on name brand cables when you can make as good quality yourself. May or may not be true,but just because you don't have the coin to spend,doesn't mean others don't. Kinda like why buy a Ferrari when a corvette will do ? Anyway, these cable discussions always go south quickly mainly from those who have no experience with higher end cables and don't care to either. Since the lack of experience is obvious,why not just stay out of the thread ? I wouldn't go on a carpenters web site and critisize the hammer he uses when I can go to wallmart and get a 5 buck hammer that drives nails the same. Why ? Because I have no friggin' experience as a carpenter or driving nails. Hey,bottom line,if your happy with what you have,rock on, but don't jump in to dismiss others who would further their own journey.

steveinaz

...because it's just so much easier to say "prove it".

megasat16

I'll be at least 2 dollars richer if I can get 2 cents from everyone chiming into this discussion.

Carry on...

reeltrouble1

Well there is Matter and there is Anti~Matter so certainly there is No Matter.

Jayman you rock. No Matter the Anti Hi-Fi Audio Insurgents. Still I always advocate that all should get their say, even AHFAI.

Ghetto Rock guys.

RT1

DarqueKnight

jinjuku wrote: »

Let me know when AES gets around to your article and switching up from A/B/X to your schema.

I am not sure that the majority of Audio Engineering Society members subscribe to the ABX protocol for audio testing. In the late 1980's, David Clark, one of the founders of the ABX movement within the AES, was bitterly disappointed to find that the majority of audio engineers outright DISMISSED blind testing for audio:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

"It becomes an ethical and perhaps legal question when it is claimed that improved sound quality is delivered despite failure of tests to prove it.

This would be less of an issue if the number of engineers who dismiss double-blind test results were small, but this is not the case. As Chairman of an AES Workshop on Esoteric Audio in 1988, I asked, by a show of hands, who in the audience believed that different gain-matched amplifiers of modern design sound different from each other. It was stated that all would measure good in conventional tests and all were operated below clipping or other gross distortion levels. Approximately 70% of the audience indicated they believed the amplifiers would likely sound different. This is an amazing response from members of an engineering society which failed to support the claim."

[Source: David Clark, "Ten Years Of A/B/X Testing", 91st Audio Engineering Society Convention, New York, NY, October 1991.]

A lot can change in 20 years. Do you have any verifyable quantitative proof that the majority of AES members now subscribe to the ABX protocol? I am aware that some AES members believe this to be true, but I have never seen any proof of this supposition.

I do know that the topic of a recent AES conference was the application of perceptual evaluation methodology to sound quality. These quotes were taken from the announcement flyer for the AES 38th International Conference on Sound Quality Evaluation, held in Pite

jinjuku

heiney9 wrote: »

cable naysayers like Jinjuku and WilliamM2, etc that were offered to participate in the power cable swap program for the cost of one-way shipping to the next person in line, but they declined for no good reason. H9

Absolutely untrue. W/O looking up that thread I believe there were a few criteria based around either length of membership or post count or both. Neither at the time I met.

And for what it is worth I would have participated. No one ever PM'd me or posted publicy as an aside to me not hitting either criteria as a waiver of.

jinjuku

ohskigod wrote: »

so, let me get this right. you knew all the counter arguments, yet decided to have the argument anyway? Dude, thats just showing a lack of respect for yourself? why bother? surely your time is worth more.

No that is just showing what you guys would say when I put $$ where my mouth is.

ohskigod

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Ghetto Rock guys.

RT1

Polkfest reference for the win...LOL

Toolfan66

jinjuku wrote: »

No that is just showing what you guys would say when I put $$ where my mouth is.

Thats not all you put there!!!!:rolleyes:

steveinaz

Well, let's get this man some cables then. Though as I stated before, the Belden DIY's you built are likely pretty nice already. Belden is a "hidden gem" of sorts, and their cables are spec'd/built very well; and NO, I'm not being sarcastic.

jinjuku

steveinaz wrote: »

Jinjuku
Why did you decide to go DIY with your cables? Did you feel an advantage existed over stock? Did you want better build quality? Why Belden wire? Why Canare connectors? Are they superior in some way? Will your electrons flow better knowing it's belden cable they are swimming down?

If I were a .99 cent cable user, could I not criticize your choice as a waste of money? Could you prove me scientifically wrong?

Catchin' my drift yet?

You DIY'd your cables because (A) You CAN. and (B) You wanted to. That's cool.

A main reason I DIY my cables (this comes from my AV installer days) custom lengths. I cut cable to the exact lenth I need so it all looks tidy. Also ever try fishing cable termnated with an XLR connector through a wall? Especially if there is insulation? Also I help my old boss from my AV days with computer stuff and he sends me Canare/Neutrik/Belden/Liberty etc... for free. Helps that he is also a authorized installer/rep for D&M holdings. So I get PSB/Denon/NAD at dealer cost

I also field terminate CAT5/6 and optical for the same reasons

jinjuku

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Thats not all you put there!!!!:rolleyes:

Funny coming from a guy that doesn't have the cajones to make an easy $100.

jinjuku

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I'm sorry that our joy of cables causes you and others such distress to the point that you are willing to pay us to prove what we hear.

I wouldn't be out a dime... Just consider it a simple experiment in physics (which it ultimately is).

Face

And who's to say you wouldn't accidentally mis-label the cables? Hardly a credible experiment.

jinjuku

Face wrote: »

And who's to say you wouldn't accidentally mis-label the cables? Hardly a credible experiment.

Not like I am going to lose any ways... I can only put it out there in good faith.

megasat16

Guyz, let's play nice! It's just a discussion....

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Since the lack of experience is obvious,why not just stay out of the thread ? I wouldn't go on a carpenters web site and critisize the hammer he uses when I can go to wallmart and get a 5 buck hammer that drives nails the same. Why ? Because I have no friggin' experience as a carpenter or driving nails. Hey,bottom line,if your happy with what you have,rock on, but don't jump in to dismiss others who would further their own journey.

I have been an active participant in this hobby since 1985. I have been a member of this forum since 2001. I did not become interested in owning a high performance audio system until fairly recently (2003), although I have been interested in learning about high performance audio gear since my entrance into the hobby. My upgrade adventure was documented here:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Year's end is a good time for quiet reflection. A long time ago, in 2003, I decided that I wanted a more realistic audio presentation: more resolution, more bass slam, more image weight, and more sound stage. After three years of research and listening evaluations, I began making purchases in the spring of 2006. A good part of my upgrades were financed by the sale of equipment that had accumulated in the attic and closets of my home. I sold a large part of my audio gear collection, including three pairs of SDA's*, and cleared (after advertising fees and packing and shipping costs) over $16,000. I also implemented a "no hoarding" rule in January of 2006 which stipulated that I must make a reasonable attempt to sell a piece of gear unless I have some current or future use for it.

Through the years I was content to quietly learn, admire and seek guidance, all the while looking forward to the eventual day when I would "take the plunge". I am very grateful for the many patient hours that experienced audiophiles and dealers spent educating me as I progressed along my audio journey.

Throughout the years, I never once asked someone to "prove" to me that he/she heard what they said they heard. I would just try it for myself and either I heard it or I didn't. Even if others could prove that they heard something and I still could not, where did that leave me? My hearing is not going to improve because someone else's is more acute.

The designers of my Parasound JC 1 amplifiers proved to Parasound's management and engineering staff that they could discern audible differences in binding posts. This was a matter of contention between John Curl and his CTC Builders partners and Parasound because the binding posts they specified were 10X the cost of the posts that Parasound wanted to use. I cannot discern audible differences in binding posts. Perhaps if I had decades of experience evaluating binding posts I could hear the differences also.;)

Toolfan66

jinjuku wrote: »

Funny coming from a guy that doesn't have the cajones to make an easy $100.

Your not worth the trouble of $100 and i'm not in need of your money that bad.. I have done my test's thats why I spent the money I did on MIT cables.

headrott

jinjuku wrote: »

Not like I am going to lose any ways... I can only put it out there in good faith.

Yes, but with your attitude towards people who think that cables make a difference it is hard to take your faith as being good. (That's not a bash, just my discernment.)

Greg

jinjuku

cstmar01 wrote: »

And yeah, you're trolling. Its annoying as crap, William and you like to show up in certain types of threads each time to try and disprove others, and after the 10000 time doing it, I think you got your point across but no one I can see in the thread is jumping on your bandwagon any time soon, so whats the point?

I never thought that putting some cash up for someone to do what they say they can do (hear the difference between a used and un-used cable) would generate so much angst and hand wringing among the subjectivist crowd. Must have really hit a nerve.