Hawkeye's SRS2 Experience

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    In my experience, Cardas wire adds a little bit of warmth and also thins the bottom end a little, which depending on what you're looking to do can be good or bad. Whenever I work with it, it turns the tip of my soldering iron gold. ;)
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I'll try and post a pic. I absolutely choke every time I try and post a pic:o Honestly, this piece looks like an AutoZone piece! http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accProductDetails.jsp?itemIdentifier=88098_0_0_&skuDescription=Dorman+/+Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&brandName=Dorman&displayName=Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&skuDisplayName=Dorman&categoryNValue=10099999&navValue=100670&categoryDisplayName=Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&parentId=00-10&itemId=670-10&productId=88098

    This is exactly what it looks like!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    That's NOT factory.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    Just as a note, I'm asking all my dumb questions in this thread, kinda like a diary. I'd hate to clog up the site with my questions in many threads. So I do appreciate all the help you folks are giving me!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    Face wrote: »
    That's NOT factory.

    That's what I was afraid of. I haven't looked at the Xovers yet. No telling what I'll find!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    I thought I saw a thread around here about replacing the internal wiring, just didn't bookmark it. Something with Cardas wire???

    Yeah, it said forgetaboutit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, it said forgetaboutit.

    Jesse, could you point me to the post? I'd like to read it for my own knowledge.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Sorry Gordon, I've got no idea where it is.

    From what I've read, the folks who have attempted internal SDA wire upgrades have found they make no difference.

    I can tell you from personal experience that Cardas chassis wire is good stuff, but it is extremely hard to work with unless you have a solder pot. The tinned stranded copper wire that Polk used is a decent gauge and IMO, you are better off investing your money in caps, resistors and new tweeters.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Janne
    Janne Posts: 139
    edited July 2010
    https://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93314
    HT/2 CH
    McIntosh MX120, MC500, MC206, MEN220
    polkaudio SDA SRS 1.2TL, XO, Inductor, Tweeter, Larry's rings, WBT Binding posts, Moretite and Dynamat mod. Built by Mollie Jones 27:th of February 1991, CS350-LS XO mod, LS-f/x, DSW MicroPro 4000
    MIT Shotgun S3.3 Bi-wire SC, Shotgun S3.3 SC, Shotgun S3.3 Proline IC, Shotgun S3.3 IC, Shotgun S3.3 Sub cable, AVT 1 Optical IC, EXP 3 Speaker interconnect.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Sorry Gordon, I've got no idea where it is.

    From what I've read, the folks who have attempted internal SDA wire upgrades have found they make no difference.

    I can tell you from personal experience that Cardas chassis wire is good stuff, but it is extremely hard to work with unless you have a solder pot. The tinned stranded copper wire that Polk used is a decent gauge and IMO, you are better off investing your money in caps, resistors and new tweeters.

    I was going to change out my wiring Gordon when I redid my crossovers and Dynamatted my MWs & PRs. Jesse suggested I leave it alone as he stated above. I checked out the wiring and it was in very good shape and almost 10ga wire.

    Then I looked at what would be involved in replacing them and what would need to be done if I didn't like the sound of the new wiring and had to put it back :eek: . . . needless to say I left it alone and my 1.2TLs sound just fine. Besides Polk knew what they were doing when they chose the internal wires. The only thing I would do is spray De Oxit on all the terminals on all the drivers and tweeters. You be surprised at what SQ improvement it makes albeit subtle but still audible.

    I know the reference to the internal upgrade to Cardas wire but it is buried in a thread. Like Jesse Soprano said, "forgetaboutit!"
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Ahem!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65979&highlight=Cardas+internal
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Ahem!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65979&highlight=Cardas+internal

    Well I was right about one thing . . . it was buried in a thread!:D:p
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I'm certainly planning on doing the crossover upgrade. I'm just not rushing into anything. Speaking of xovers, it seems like the average cost is about 3-4 hundred? Does this include labor or parts only and, would $1000 for both including labor be a good estimate? I'd have to have somebody do it since I don't know my way around circuits.

    The internal wiring looks like something I could do but probably not until after the xover work.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2010
    $3-4 hundred is parts for both and I would say $1K is ridiculous to pay to for someone to do it even if parts are included. It's not that difficult and there are lots of tutorial threads here on CP. Either send them to Ben or someone on the forum or do them yourself. It's basic soldering skills to remove and install resistors and caps.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I'm certainly planning on doing the crossover upgrade. I'm just not rushing into anything. Speaking of xovers, it seems like the average cost is about 3-4 hundred? Does this include labor or parts only and, would $1000 for both including labor be a good estimate? I'd have to have somebody do it since I don't know my way around circuits.

    The internal wiring looks like something I could do but probably not until after the xover work.

    Gordon

    Record the values that you need,, then give the guys at Sonicap a call--I'm sure that someone can perform the mod,as many here have done,,either for a nominal fee or for maybe a Pizza and Beveridge--good luck--keep us posted.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    Gordon, I have a soldering station; get all the info we need & I'll see about doing them if no one else is nearby.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I don't think 1k is rediculous if one prices say the ClarityCaps MR range. I think just for one speaker the caps alone could be near 800. Not saying I'm going to go that way, just food for thought. I'm saying I'm going to budget 1k for both crossovers, and if I can upgrade in areas that could benefit, I will. Don't know what or where, just starting to read and learn.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    IMO, I would use an MR for the 12uf and maybe the 4.4uf(2.2x2), then ESA's for the 20 and 40uf's.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I don't think 1k is rediculous if one prices say the ClarityCaps MR range. I think just for one speaker the caps alone could be near 800.
    Gordon

    Ok, but you didn't say that in your post, you referred to the $300-400 price point for parts and then asked if $1K was too much for parts and labor. To me that read as $600-700 for labor.

    Now if you meant $400 for parts for each speaker, then $1K total for parts and labor would not be too bad. I guess if you had been more specific in the original post about what brand of caps you were going to with then we could offer a more valid opinion.

    Perhaps if you price out the brand/level of parts you want and then ask if $****.xx amount additional is fair for labor then we could respond accordingly :).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    H9, I see your point. I was a bit vague and didn't get across what I wanted to say. I'll try to be more specific when asking questions.

    Thanks, gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    Here is a question about the PR's. Pulled them both out this morning to do the Dynamat. That went fine until I was sitting back inspecting my handiwork and lo and behold, I find a piece missing! (I think) Both of them are marked with SW-155, 10-16-87 and a VS.

    The left PR has what appears to be weight stuck in it dead center of the styrofoam. The right does not. I looked inside the cabinet thinking it may be rolling around but found nothing.

    Am I concerned about nothing or do I have to do something?

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2010
    Well the weight makes a difference. I would be just as puzzled as you to figure out where the missing weight went. Most likely the prior owner removed it from the cabinet because it might have been rattling around if the speakers had been moved to different locations.

    I would try and find out how much the weight weighs and try to add your own. Finding PR's for the SRS2's is difficult to say the least. Unless someone here is willing to let go of one from their stash.

    Good luck Gordon

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    H9, I kinda thought that:( Seems like the right PR would be a bit faster than the left. Are these weights glued into the styrofoam? If I could remove the one I have, I could weigh it and attempt to duplicate it, if it can be removed without damaging the one good one I have!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    The weight is what tunes the PR to it's specific resonance frequency. Without it you're going to get WAAAAY high bass response in sympathetic resonance to the mid drivers
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    The left PR has what appears to be weight stuck in it dead center of the styrofoam. The right does not. I looked inside the cabinet thinking it may be rolling around but found nothing.

    Am I concerned about nothing or do I have to do something?

    Gordon

    Hawkeye, You might try looking at the back of the mid-woofers and tweeters (magnets) for that weight for the PR also it could be stuck up in the polyfill. As far as making a new weight i would just weigh both PR's and the difference should tell you how much the weight needs to be and yes there just glued to the styrofoam also i would NOT use epoxy or anything like it to reglue the weight as it might melt or eat into the styrofoam.
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Gordon, I believe I have a spare PR for an SRS II. If so it's yours. See the PM I sent you.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2010
    Just eyeball the diameter of the PR that has a weight, guess and glue a couple standard washers to your other PR. If you didn't notice before, you probably won't notice afterwards.

    The weights were used to "tune" the cabinet and driver to the respective frequency response desired. There may have been drivers that worked better than others and I don't believe it to have been a rocket level method back then.

    If you want to over think everything, by all means, get out your college textbooks...email a bunch of others and ask why oh why and do what you want.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Weigh the PR with weight, subtract the non-weighted PR's weight, add appropriate weight to other PR.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Gordon the one I have did indeed come out of a set of SRS 2s but I can't find the model number of it anywhere on it. It has the black weight on the rear of what looks like the spider but it DOES NOT have the styrofoam like what you described above. It looks totally different than my 1.2TLs PRs with the styrofoam.

    Does anyone know if this one will match up frequency wise with the one that Gordon has?
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    Just eyeball the diameter of the PR that has a weight, guess and glue a couple standard washers to your other PR. If you didn't notice before, you probably won't notice afterwards.

    The weights were used to "tune" the cabinet and driver to the respective frequency response desired. There may have been drivers that worked better than others and I don't believe it to have been a rocket level method back then.

    If you want to over think everything, by all means, get out your college textbooks...email a bunch of others and ask why oh why and do what you want.

    While I appreciate the advice, you can keep the sarcasm to yourself.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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