Hawkeye's SRS2 Experience

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2010
    Oki doki. Just trying to help tough guy....heard of light humor before Gordon? I could probably help you the most but Good Luck. I'll dance off to the side and let you roll.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2010
    One question, does it look like the PR had a weight on it? If not it might not have needed one. But if it did do like Face said, weigh the two and add the difference to the one that is missing it.

    Overall I have to agree with Doro on this one. If you didn't notice it before you probably won't after. By the way, he knows a lot more about these than most guys.
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I did mention in an earlier post that I thought the mid bass was a bit weak. Could this weight have had some impact on this? I don't know. Gary seemed to think so.

    If one (me) has not heard a correctly assembled pair, it would be hard to set a baseline, that is all I'm trying to do. If it is right it's right, if it is wrong, it's wrong.

    I do wish I noticed it missing sooner. I could have weighed them and done something. Unfortunately, I noticed it after I applied the Dynamat. Weighing them now would be a waste of time. There is no way I applied the exact same amount to both PR's. I'm going to pop the weight out and duplicate it if I can.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Yes, the weight affects the tuning frequency. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, it's not the best chart, but it'll give you an idea.

    https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8867&osCsid=4283db996333b311896d797f5793ba57
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I finally found a picture of the weight I'm missing thanks to the upgrade thread by Larry.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97719&highlight=passive+radiator

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I'll try and post a pic. I absolutely choke every time I try and post a pic:o Honestly, this piece looks like an AutoZone piece! http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accProductDetails.jsp?itemIdentifier=88098_0_0_&skuDescription=Dorman+/+Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&brandName=Dorman&displayName=Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&skuDisplayName=Dorman&categoryNValue=10099999&navValue=100670&categoryDisplayName=Conduct-Tite18-14gaugeblueweatherproofwirequickspliceterminal&parentId=00-10&itemId=670-10&productId=88098

    This is exactly what it looks like!

    Gordon

    Two of the very same connectors are in the wiring of my SRS2s:eek: Not for much longer though !
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    gdb wrote: »
    Two of the very same connectors are in the wiring of my SRS2s:eek: Not for much longer though !

    That's actually comforting! That would mean this was a factory splice and somebody hasn't hacked my wires up worse than they were!

    How do you plan on changing it? I was thinking about coming off the second post on the first driver to the second driver. Or, an equal length wire from the xover.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Gordon, can you find a way to post some pics of the PR's? Polk changed the build of them from time to time. What you think is missing, may not be.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    That's actually comforting! That would mean this was a factory splice and somebody hasn't hacked my wires up worse than they were!

    How do you plan on changing it? I was thinking about coming off the second post on the first driver to the second driver. Or, an equal length wire from the xover.

    Gordon



    Gordon,

    My plan is to eliminate ALL crimp terminal connections inside these speakers when I upgrade the crossovers. I will solder every termination at the drivers and the XOs and any place where the Y taps are.needed, I 'll solder a second wire at the speaker's terminal. It kinda cracks me up that folks are so "anal" about the wires/cabling and associated terminations outside of/between their components, and are then satisfied with crappy, crimped on spade terminations inside the speakers! (and automotive grade inline taps:eek:) I also want to improve the speaker cable and the interconnect set up between them with some nice quality binding posts. I am practicing soldering in preparation for this work, it's kinda tough with shaky hands like mine!:(
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I finally found a picture of the weight I'm missing thanks to the upgrade thread by Larry.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97719&highlight=passive+radiator

    Gordon

    Looking at the picture in the link you posted Gordon the PR I have is totally different but did come out of SRS 2s.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Gordon the one I have did indeed come out of a set of SRS 2s but I can't find the model number of it anywhere on it. It has the black weight on the rear of what looks like the spider but it DOES NOT have the styrofoam like what you described above. It looks totally different than my 1.2TLs PRs with the styrofoam.

    Does anyone know if this one will match up frequency wise with the one that Gordon has?

    Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    Gots no ideer, other than a really good set of ears or a bunch of measuring equipment. Apparently a lot of the owners of vmps subwoofers fiddle around with the weights on their PRs to tune them to their liking. I would imagine that as long as the diameter/surface area are equal, they'd have to be able to be made to sound the same. that was a mouthful !:D
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I have not done much with music or these speakers this weekend. Between grandkids and kids, much windshield time!

    I will say to this point, I've spiked, corrected wiring discrepancies and dynamatted the stereo drivers and the PR's. I am seeing an improved mid range with a richness I thought was missing before. Depth and imaging has improved but the width still remains constant to about a couple feet outside the speaker. The dynamat has had a profound impact which I'm really enjoying! The bottom has cleaned up nicely and sounds a lot more accurate than without.

    The tweets have to go. A couple folks, (myself included) this weekend thought they sounded tipped up or shrill, depending on the CD. The sibilance is still fairly pronounced and very objectionable to me. So I don't think the DM had much effect on them, which I wasn't expecting anyway. So I believe I'll order the RDO-194 tweeters in the morning and mat the dimensionals. There is also going to be issues installing Larry's rings in the SRS2. There is some blocking in the cabinet which I'll have to deal with.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    Wow gdb, that sounds extreme! I'll agree about the external wires and the auto splice tho. Soldering to the driver? I don't believe I've seen that done, but I certainly don't discount it. Do you have any idea of what internal wire your going to use? This is on the table for me, but in the later stages of my planned path.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Soldering the chassis wires to the driver terminals makes it a real PITA when you want to remove them to work on your speaker. Treat the push on terminal connections with Caig De-Oxit followed by Pro Gold and call it a day.

    Upgrading the chassis wire has been done with reports that it does nothing.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    Gordon,
    I've seen hundreds of leads soldered to the terminal plates of drivers. In fact the older ones didn't even have a place to receive "push-on" terminals.The flex leads that pass through the cone are always soldered too, no reason to rely on a galvanized steel, female crimp connector to give optimum conductivity, when a simple soldering will guarantee it. If I ever need to change out a driver, a quick snip (two)and approx. 5 minutes soldering will be a small inconvenience for getting the "best" connection within my means. No plans to do anything exotic as far as wire choice, might just re-use what's there. I don't see any advantage of those rings vs. separate threaded inserts w/machine screws, so I'll probably go that route instead.I very well might go to eight screws also, I think that would really distribute the pressure/contact area so that the Mortite will compress better/more evenly effecting a better link with the baffle. There's no way that those rings would fit in the lower positions in my SRS2 cabinets anyway, the bracing would necessitate having to cut the ring completely away between the lower two screws or, a very precise bend done with a brake. Now I just need to figure out how to pay for the caps & resistors, SonicCraft got any sales coming up ??:)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Have fun trying to balance a driver while trying to solder with about 3 inches of lead wire. Honestly, the idea defies logic.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Have fun trying to balance a driver while trying to solder with about 3 inches of lead wire. Honestly, the idea defies logic.

    +1 There is not much play or give with the wiring (Jesse is being liberal with his 3" of lead wire assessment) and there is so little space to work that you'd be burning yourself and melting wire insulation.

    I thought about doing that with my 1.2 TLs but when I assessed the situation and saw what a PITA it was just to get the wires back on the terminals with all those drivers I found it to be not worth the hours of effort.

    It would be a great idea to get a good solder connection on all the terminals of your driver but for the reasons stated above, the idea does defy logic.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Let's take it one step further. Look inside any piece of audio gear, you'll see Molex type connectors everywhere. They are basically the same as the push on spade type terminals in your Polk speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Let's take it one step further. Look inside any piece of audio gear, you'll see Molex type connectors everywhere. They are basically the same as the push on spade type terminals in your Polk speakers.

    Agreed and with any presure connector, if you De Oxit regularly it is just as good as a solder joint.

    Although Woodguru claims soldered connections color the sound!:rolleyes:
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    +1 There is not much play or give with the wiring (Jesse is being liberal with his 3" of lead wire assessment) and there is so little space to work that you'd be burning yourself and melting wire insulation.

    I thought about doing that with my 1.2 TLs but when I assessed the situation and saw what a PITA it was just to get the wires back on the terminals with all those drivers I found it to be not worth the hours of effort.

    It would be a great idea to get a good solder connection on all the terminals of your driver but for the reasons stated above, the idea does defy logic.

    Fear Not ! One need but to turn the cone towards the baffle, thread 2 xtra long screws though the holes on the driver and into the baffle. Or.....ANY number of rigs,jigs or fixtures could be improvised to hold the driver while the soldering takes place. Length of wire, if insufficient, will be corrected. Cast away your pessimism O yee of little faith!;)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited July 2010
    Length of wire, if insufficient, will be corrected.

    By what means, soldering on an extra length of wire?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    gdb wrote: »
    Fear Not ! One need but to turn the cone towards the baffle, thread 2 xtra long screws though the holes on the driver and into the baffle. Or.....ANY number of rigs,jigs or fixtures could be improvised to hold the driver while the soldering takes place. Length of wire, if insufficient, will be corrected. Cast away your pessimism O yee of little faith!;)

    Well if I want to spend a whole day soldering all my terminals to the wires I would consider it but I believe regular De Oxit sessions are a lot easier and produce the same results. One more thing, looking ahead, if I want to do the JB weld to the magnets, I would have to spend another whole day of unsoldering to get the drivers out.

    Thanks for you suggestion but no thanks as I've become less of a tweeker and more of a listener. In my youth I may have gone this way.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    By what means, soldering on an extra length of wire?

    :eek::eek::eek::eek:
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Well if I want to spend a whole day soldering all my terminals to the wires I would consider it but I believe regular De Oxit sessions are a lot easier and produce the same results. One more thing, looking ahead, if I want to do the JB weld to the magnets, I would have to spend another whole day of unsoldering to get the drivers out.

    Thanks for you suggestion but no thanks as I've become less of a tweeker and more of a listener. In my youth I may have gone this way.

    No "suggestion" was proffered by me, I merely stated what I plan to do,how and why. I've had to spend far more time on far less satisfying tasks like repairing a lawn tractor for example. This is a labor of love. Oh yeah, and I might just "spurge" and buy a new length of wire if I need one !:D
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    The solder vs crimp on discussion is an interesting read. Nice to read opposing views. I do believe I fall into the crimp camp.

    While sitting here listening to music, I've pondered how I'm going to clean up the appearance of the speakers. I know all the fabric will require replacement. I see how to remove the top and bottom plates, but how are the sides removed?

    Secondly, how important is it to maintain the factory look of finished wood? Are or is a specialty finish too personal in the event of future sals?

    I was considering replacing the top and bottom plates with piano black acrylic and replacing the vertical wood strip with a strip of matte aluminum to mimic the rest of McIntosh gear.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    The solder vs crimp on discussion is an interesting read. Nice to read opposing views. I do believe I fall into the crimp camp.

    While sitting here listening to music, I've pondered how I'm going to clean up the appearance of the speakers. I know all the fabric will require replacement. I see how to remove the top and bottom plates, but how are the sides removed?

    Secondly, how important is it to maintain the factory look of finished wood? Are or is a specialty finish too personal in the event of future sals?

    I was considering replacing the top and bottom plates with piano black acrylic and replacing the vertical wood strip with a strip of matte aluminum to mimic the rest of McIntosh gear.

    Gordon


    Gordon, I don't have time to look, I'm being hailed for dinner but do an advanced search on Darqueknight and lasareath "threads started" as I believe they both have threads on how to remove the sides. I know DK's is for SRSs. I think Sal make have one for SRS IIs. IIRC George Daniel has something written about it too. . . Have to go.

    TTYL

    Got a minute found DKs

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26036
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    Thanks Joe!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    How does this sound for a xover upgrade:

    ClarityCaps ESA for the 20 & 40
    ClarityCaps MR for the 12 & 4.4
    Dueland Resisters

    Reading here and other spots would seem to support this combination. Parts would be about 1K, plus labor.

    Would this combination result in a very clear and articulate mid range? The RDO-194's are on the way so I'm thinking a step ahead. I have to have a very clean and defined mid range since I listen to a lot of jazz, big band and some classical (wife).

    Feel free to poke holes or make suggestions. I'm budgeting 1k for parts so please keep that in mind.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    My next question is this:

    I'm about ready to install DK's Dreadnaught. I have new binding posts for the change. Can I just add a jumper from the pin to the new post and keep the orignal wiring intact?

    I'm thinking that if I can, then the original SDA wire could be used in the future without going into the box and moving/removing anything.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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