4K Blu-ray. Any early adopters out there?

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  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,659
    StantonZ wrote: »

    But all this ignores the ultimate question, which is: can/will any of us be able to tell the difference between 4k and 8k in the home environment? Given that many still can't tell the difference between 1080p and 2160p (I can...barely...because I have a decent size TV and enjoy the addition of HDR/WCG), that could ultimately be the deciding factor.

    In my case, it's not a matter of not being able to see a difference between 1080p and 2160p, it's a matter of the difference being so small that it's not worth the high investment costs in hardware and software. The "WOW" factor going from 2K to 4K just isn't there...at least not for me. Judging from what I read on this, and other, forums, the 4K wow factor isn't there for a lot of people.

    The last time I was wowed by a television picture was the first time I saw a 1080p blu-ray displayed on a Pioneer Kuro plasma. This was during the summer of 2009.

    I would like to go from my current 60" display to an 80" display...if there was something on the market that rivaled my Kuro plasma in holographic picture quality. As it stands now, I would be taking a big hit in picture quality to gain more screen area. It's not worth it to me.

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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    People get hung up on the resolution and whether or not you can see a difference. The truth is you would BARELY see it on properly set up displays. However what most do not realize is the fact that the 4K standard isn’t just about resolution. It’s about a much wider color spectrum (gamut) and much wider dynamic range between the darkest and brightest parts of the picture. That you CAN see.
  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 2,173
    People get hung up on the resolution and whether or not you can see a difference. The truth is you would BARELY see it on properly set up displays. However what most do not realize is the fact that the 4K standard isn’t just about resolution. It’s about a much wider color spectrum (gamut) and much wider dynamic range between the darkest and brightest parts of the picture. That you CAN see.

    But isn't that more about the newest TV's having HDR rather than it being 4K?
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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    HDR is an integral part of the 4K standard. Part of the problem with 4K that is slowing it’s eventual adoption is the standard keeps evolving. Don’t get me wrong now. 4K TVs are selling quite well. It’s just that a lot of people do not understand what all it is that they are getting.
  • GospelTruthGospelTruth Posts: 392
    Here are my observations (not meant to undermine any other opinions):

    Future Televisions
    Before long, all panels in TVs will be 4k. Just like you hardly saw any 720p panels once 1080 took hold. You may get 1080 displays for smaller panels, but the larger ones will all be 4k. It's just easier for companies to produce one display rather than having a 2k 65" panels and a 4k 65" panels.

    Benefits of 4k
    There is an uptick in resolution. The increase is 4x that of 1080p (2k). Whether you can perceive the increased clarity depends on a few things:
    • Size of the TV/panel
    • Viewing distance form TV.
    • Source material.
    The second advantage is High Dynamic Range (HDR). HDR utilizes 10-bit depth for the color which is 4x that of Standard Dynamic Range (8-bit). This gives you millions of more colors and shades than were possible before - and better dynamic range.

    HDR and 4k together make for an outstanding picture. 4k by itself may not offer that much of an upgrade for you over 1080p depending on the above factors.

    Content - some thoughts
    • When it comes down to it, it all depends on the content. Back when DVD first came out, the movie companies recycled their laser disc masters when publishing their DVDs. While there was some uptick in quality, the masters were not reaching the true potential of the format.
    • The same happened when blu-ray came out. Masters made for DVD were utilized for the new format and again, some of the discs that were pressed did not live up to the potential for the format. That is why you see "reissued" and "sourced from a new 4k master" when new blurays come out again for the same movie. Companies invest a lot of money making remasters and will only do so on those films/programs that will earn them a return on their investment.
    • Now with 4k out, we are seeing some of the same things over again. Some movies on 4k do not really exhibit that much of an uptick from the standard bluray. Some are sourced from 2k intermediates. Some are sourced from 4k masters. You can read plenty of bluray reviews to see this is the case. However, if a studio goes back and gets a new 4k or 8k scan of the movie and does a quality HDR pass on the film, the results can look pretty impressive. Go here to see about the recent movies coming out on 4k UHD bluray to see if the movie is truly sourced from a 4k master.

    My Experience
    This past winter, we purchased a 65" 4k set with HDR (supports both HDR10 and Dolby Vision). We sit about 8'-10' back from the TV. With a 4k UHD bluray, I can definitely tell the uptick in clarity - but that depends on the programming material as mentioned. The HDR on the other hand makes things pop a lot more compared to standard bluray. Is bluray bad? Not at all. HDR is where the format shines in my opinion. I just watched Saving Private Ryan on 4k UHD bluray. Incredible to say the least. Squashes the bluray in every way.

    Final thoughts
    • The leap from VHS to DVD was significant.
    • The leap from DVD to bluray was significant, but not the same as VHS to DVD.
    • The leap from bluray to 4k is there. The HDR is the biggest benefit.
    But like all things, there comes a point of diminishing returns. It all depends on what's good enough for you. If you are satisfied with bluray/2k then that's awesome. My parents still like DVD and they are content. For me, I like what I see with the 4k HDR video quality. Your mileage may vary.
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  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,544
    I hate to burst your bubble BUT most everything is shot in 8k and down converted to 4k. 4k panels will be shorter lived than 720/1080 panels. The Japanese have been seeing 8k for a few years now.
    I agree that the HDR is most definitely a blessing now if they would just set a standard for it.(they are working on it) Not all HDR is the same between companies let's not get into the panel and DVD players HDR as those can be like the hand shake issue for HDMI not many years back.
    Now we are starting to have things shot in 10k so we now have that rabbit running.......before long it will be 16 bit and 24bit HDR progress is smoking fast now. Just as soon as you invest it is out if date.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,600
    Here are my observations (not meant to undermine any other opinions):

    Great summary. Matches quite well with what I've been seeing. I have purchased a lot of 4K content already. Why? Because it's the best source material available. The improvements are worth it to me. But, I still have a few hundred DVDs and am also happy with them too for what they are. As a rule I will not spend more than $20 on a 4K movie so I wait until the prices drop after a new release comes out.

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  • GospelTruthGospelTruth Posts: 392
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I hate to burst your bubble BUT most everything is shot in 8k and down converted to 4k.

    My bubble isn't burst. I would have to disagree with you though that everything is shot in 8k now. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 was the first movie shot in 8k. However, that is the exception, not the norm. Most recent films are shot digitally in the ARRIRAW codec (at 3.4K) using ARRI Alexa XT cameras. It's up to the studios to decide how they want the intermediate rendered after that and it's either 2k or 4k.

    Even the recent releases of movies shot on film that are remastered for 4K UHD are scanned at 4k. This includes the recent movie Saving Private Ryan. If a studio wanted to be future proof, they would be scanning these films at 8k to future proof them. They aren't.

    From my readings, 8k may be something for the local cinema someday in order present a better picture on a large screen. I don't see 8k improving resolution that would be perceivable on a home television. I may be wrong about that, but improving bit depth for better color and contrast would help out a picture more so than resolution going forward.

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  • GospelTruthGospelTruth Posts: 392
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I have purchased a lot of 4K content already. Why? Because it's the best source material available. The improvements are worth it to me. But, I still have a few hundred DVDs and am also happy with them too for what they are.

    I have a large collection of DVDs. I also have a fair amount of blurays. For me, it all depends on the content as to whether I'll double dip again for a movie on the new format. It has to be something that is worth it - Saving Private Ryan and soon Gladiator and Braveheart will be added. Like you, I'll wait for the prices to come down a little first.

    For new content, I watch them on a rented disc and if the movie is really good, I'll get it on UHD 4k bluray.
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  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 2,596
    Hey, I like 4k TVs. I will like them even more when the prices for large screen panels (75" minimum) fall below $500. ;) Not holding my breath on that either.
    Until then, diminishing returns will keep me where I am, unless my Sammy bites the dust...
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 2,596
    @honestaquarian, I am curious about this ^^^^. Two weeks ago you stated you can't comment about 4k picture quality because you don't own a 4k display yet, so why buy 4k videos? I totally understand why you bought an Oppo 205 ahead of time (I wish I had the coin to reserve one myself), but this seems a bit like buying 5 gallon cans of gas before you own a vehicle...
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    @polrbehr
    Okay granted this pic is a bit blurry, but if you look at the top of the jacket you can see it is a 4K Blu-ray as well as a regular Blu-ray and a digital download. They did the same thing (and actually still are doing it) when Blu-rays first came out. They package the newer discs with the older format to make it easier for people who are traveling the upgrade path. I no longer buy Blu-rays, I only buy the 4K's with this packaging. I started down the upgrade path by buying these movies like this last year. Then I got a good deal on a 4K capable TiVo Bolt VOX this year. Then five minutes later Oppo Digital announces they are going to cease production over time. First thing to go was the UDP-205. Now if you check their website the UDP-203 is gone as well. I could have bought a 203 outright, but I WANTED the 205!!! So I went to a Best Buy with a Magnolia Hi Fi(*actually I had to go to two before I found one and that required me getting a ride from a friend*) and practically BEGGED one of the salesman with whom I had become acquainted over time to let me put it on layaway! I picked it up after a month and a half.

    Next stop a 4K OLED B)
    I DOUBT I'll be able to do layaway on this though as the good ones that I want from Sony and LG cost twice as much or more than this Oppo did.
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 3,116
    I'm curious as to your opinion on the audio quality on that movie. A few of us were talking about it the other day in a different thread. I found it to be the worst I have ever experienced on Blu-ray. I enjoyed the movie, but the forced accents became a bit tedious to listen to after an hour. Between that and the audio quality (flat, no bass, low volume), it was a regrettable purchase for me, and I'm a big fan of the Marvel movies.
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    I haven't watched it yet so no spoilers please!
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    Hermitism wrote: »
    I'm curious as to your opinion on the audio quality on that movie. A few of us were talking about it the other day in a different thread. I found it to be the worst I have ever experienced on Blu-ray. I enjoyed the movie, but the forced accents became a bit tedious to listen to after an hour. Between that and the audio quality (flat, no bass, low volume), it was a regrettable purchase for me, and I'm a big fan of the Marvel movies.

    While the accents are of no bother to me I will have to agree about the sound. I am watching it now and I had to turn up the volume and I was wondering if the subs were even on. This is on the Blu-ray as I cannot yet watch the 4K version
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    If you turn up the volume higher than you would normally for an action flick then the bass and dynamics come in. However it’s still nothing like it should be.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,413
    I just ordered it on 4K UHD. Since I am not a bass-hole I shouldn’t be unhappy with the sound. :)
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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    To answer a question posed in another thread about this Oppo getting really warm and such. I just touched the top in different sections and it IS warm, but not uncomfortably so. Meaning I didn’t have to take my hand off for fear of getting burned or something.i92whuzuy1kx.jpeg
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    Question; Does anyone own either a Sony OLED or any of the latest LG OLED's?
    Any opinions or reviews on them?
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 2,129
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,413

    Question; Does anyone own either a Sony OLED or any of the latest LG OLED's?
    Any opinions or reviews on them?

    Before I bought my Sony XBR65-900F I was looking at their OLEDs, but was a little concerned about burn-in. I checked with a friend of mine who bought an LG OLED last year, and asked if he had any issues. He said that a news channel logo was burned into his screen, but other than that it was okay. So, I went with the Sony LED. :)
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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    @BlueFox Did your friend have the white level (contrast) turned up like unfortunately most do?
    Not a judgement or criticism, just a question, because this is what the average person tends to do not knowing how to properly set up their picture.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,413
    I have no idea. He did say he followed LG procedure to prevent/eliminate it, and it didn’t work.

    Your question reminded me I need to find an ISF certified technician, and get both my TVs calibrated.
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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    edited June 2018
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I have no idea. He did say he followed LG procedure to prevent/eliminate it, and it didn’t work.

    Your question reminded me I need to find an ISF certified technician, and get both my TVs calibrated.

    @BlueFox Magnolia Hi-Fi in some Best Buy's has that calibration service. When last I checked it was something like $250 per device.
    This may vary depending on where you live.
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 446
    What do you consider early? I jumped in sometime in 2014.
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  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,823
    mpitogo wrote: »
    What do you consider early? I jumped in sometime in 2014.

    Oh yeah that’s early alright
  • Avengers Infinity War is typical Disney. Turn up the volume about six db higher thsn you normally do and it will sound GREAT!
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,929
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Question; Does anyone own either a Sony OLED or any of the latest LG OLED's?
    Any opinions or reviews on them?

    Before I bought my Sony XBR65-900F I was looking at their OLEDs, but was a little concerned about burn-in. I checked with a friend of mine who bought an LG OLED last year, and asked if he had any issues. He said that a news channel logo was burned into his screen, but other than that it was okay. So, I went with the Sony LED. :)
    I basically did the same thing with OLED. I was strongly leaning towards the Sony OLED A1E but the lack of brightness, Burn in and projected un even work out screen scared me away and I went with the Sony XBR Z9D.
    Dan
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  • mantis wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Question; Does anyone own either a Sony OLED or any of the latest LG OLED's?
    Any opinions or reviews on them?

    Before I bought my Sony XBR65-900F I was looking at their OLEDs, but was a little concerned about burn-in. I checked with a friend of mine who bought an LG OLED last year, and asked if he had any issues. He said that a news channel logo was burned into his screen, but other than that it was okay. So, I went with the Sony LED. :)
    I basically did the same thing with OLED. I was strongly leaning towards the Sony OLED A1E but the lack of brightness, Burn in and projected un even work out screen scared me away and I went with the Sony XBR Z9D.

    Screen burn in is usually only an issue when someone is trying to get their display to compete with large amounts of ambient light. I don’t know how many times I have walked past apartments or houses and the flat screen is like three feet from a window. Plasmas and OLEDS will not do well in those types of situations where maximum brightness is more of a priority than an accurate picture. Even though technology has changed, the old axiom of brightness versus an accurate picture still stands. Unfortunately unless you can or are willing to pay a LOT of money, you cannot have both. Even with the newer and admittedly MUCH BETTER LCD sets that are out there now. The more you do in the picture settings to get maximum brightness out of the display, the less accurate the picture often is.
    If getting a good picture and color fidelity and such are priorities over brightness, then an OLED will do you well. The newer sets will get much brighter than the older ones. However they still cannot compete with LCD when it comes to maximum brightness. This is why they developed two different standards when it comes to brightness when calibrating a set for the HDR (High Dynamic Range) standards. The maximum brightness level for LCD is MUCH HIGHER than the one for OLED.
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