Power Conditioner - Who's using one? Which one? Did it help your sound?

So my rig hasn't changed in 3-4 years (see my sig). I was thinking of changing my amp. It's an Aragon 8008 Mk II. So I googled reviews of it which reminded me that it's a pretty good amp, so maybe I should keep it. Had been perusing Mac, Pass, and Bryston. Solid state.

Anyways, during my research I stumbled across some dude saying that a power conditioner made a big improvement in his system. Naturally I take such claims with a grain of salt, but the rationale seems logical (dirty power, peak current, etc). Currently I'm just using a Belkin plug strip. All components plug into it. I can't plug my amp into the wall by itself and I'm not going to put in a dedicated 20 amp line or anything. For power conditioner I've been looking at the Furman Elite-15 PFi. At $700 it's a lot cheaper than an amp. I know you can go a lot higher, and a little lower. But I like the features for the price.

So my question for you guys is whether you're using a power conditioner and if so, which one? Did it help your sound? Etc.

Thanks,
Jet
SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|Sonus Faber Cremona Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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Comments

  • Monster power HTPS 7000MKII Signature series and the AVS-2000 Signature series.
    They keep the power line hash out and the protected my system earlier this month from a HUGE power surge.
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,330
    edited October 2016
    I was skeptical about power conditioners. When I bought my Monster HTS-3600mkII, it was marked down bit time when Circuit City was going out of business and I figured it would at least be good for protection plus the switching capabilities. The dang thing made me a believer in power conditioners. You can actually hear a difference.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    Running a Panamax MR4300. Bought it because it was on sale, $100 off. It works. I've had lights flicker, and microwave clock not blinking, and the conditioner tripped.

    I heard a difference in the upper mid-range area. Seemed to be a more flatter response. Just my personal experience, in my room, with my gear. You may or may not hear a difference.

    Furman makes good stuff, at least according to the people who buy it. It will definitely offer better surge protection than the power strip you're currently using. Probably worth the price for that alone.

    Can you spend more money for a better product? Yes.

    Can you spend less for something just as good? Debatable.

    These people here are almost always right. We all hear things differently, so sometimes you won't hear a difference from a suggested upgrade, and sometimes you will. Personally I think you'll hear a difference, but I can't be sure that you will.

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

    "4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

    Power factor corrected?

    IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

    No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    F1nut wrote: »
    The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

    "4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

    Power factor corrected?

    IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

    No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

    I might agree with that assessment.....from personal experiences with a Monster 5100 and PS Audio's lower line of power conditioners.

    Power conditioners range in prices like any piece of audio gear. All depends on what you want it to do. I wouldn't advise plugging an amp into it though as most consumer grade lower level power conditioners are current limiting.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    edited October 2016
    +1 on the PS Audio
    I use this to good effect. (not that I was having big noise issues to begin w/)
    http://hifiheaven.net/shop/PS-Audio-Dectet-Power-Center?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=CIz2xr34hNACFQkKaQodpbkCgA

    Nice amp. Are you having hum or noise issues? As others have said,
    a blacker background and better bass would be expected...
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • ^^I use the same, it works well and is built like a tank.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,471
    Tripp-Lite LCR2400 for sources and preamp
    PS Audio Soloist for amp
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 2,987
    I use a Chang Lightspeed and have been pleased, although my power amp goes directly into the wall, and the Chang is used for the all other components.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    PS Audio UPC-200

    Love the little guy. Have had it for almost 3 years now. Won't ever let it go even though it is sitting idle on a headphone setup that hasn't been used in 6 months. Time to rearrange!
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited October 2016
    I've acquired several PS Audio power products over the years (UPC-200's, Duet, Quintet, Juice Bar) and found all of them capable of lowering the noise floor of solid state and tube gear. Currently, I'm using their PerfectWave P3 regenerator on my main 2CH rig and consider it to be, IMHO, one of the best investments I've ever made in audio gear.

    P3.png

    Main 2CH: Wadia 301 CDP | PS Audio Digital Link III DAC with Cullen Level IV mods | Bluenote Bellavista Turntable with Boston Audio Design "The Mat 1", B5 Signature Arm and DV-20X2H | PS Audio GCPH Phono Preamp | PS Audio GCP-200 Preamp with External PS | Innersound Active Crossover/Bass Amp | Sanders Sound ESL Panel Amp | SVS PB12-Ultra/2 Sub | Innersound Eros MK III Hybrid ESL Speakers Horizontally Bi-Amped | PS Audio PerfectWave P3 Power Plant | All cabling MIT Shotgun S1 | GIK Acoustic Treatments |
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    I have 2 APC H15's.

    I temporarily have my Crown XLS2000 connected to the the downstairs, but under NO CIRCUMSTANCE do I plan to hook my B&K 200.5 up to it. In the downstairs system the APC H15 runs all my sources, TV, and my AVR. In my loft the APC H15 runs the entire setup, including the Anthem MRX-500 I am using to power my speakers.

    My goal for protection for my amp(s) are to pony up and install a whole home protector at the breaker as a first line of protection, and then "maybe" later on look at a Shuntya for just my amps, but thats a much later date.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • cvc
    cvc Posts: 65
    Corey Greenburg, who used to write for Stereophile, recommended these conditioners back in the day.. The difference is like drinking tap water or bottled water.. Most if us drink bottled water to avoid a mouthful of sea monkees.. I use 2 of these Power Pack II's..

    http://www.audiopower.com/newsite/pp2.html
  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,084
    I moved-up the food chain to a regenerator, and I'm very happy with it.
    The Furman is an excellent product. But, I'll need to sell the good Elite-15 PF i to a worthy home . . . PM me if "innarested"
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampi Baltic 4
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Spend some time on Shunyata's web site reading, and understanding, their technology. There aren't many audio companies who when they release a new product price it less than the previous line. The new Denali line is getting absolute stunning reviews all around, from the press, and customers. I won't be upgrading, but maybe in a few years to the next generation.

    I will say adding Shunyata power gear is better than adding a new piece of electronic gear. Of course, you do need to do it right with dedicated 20 amp lines.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • gurot1
    gurot1 Posts: 519
    edited October 2016
    GlennDog wrote: »
    I moved-up the food chain to a regenerator, and I'm very happy with it.
    The Furman is an excellent product. But, I'll need to sell the good Elite-15 PF i to a worthy home . . . PM me if "innarested"

    I see this message just after buying a used on online today (PFi 15)
    lsim705,lsim706c,lsif/x(4)+mc80(atmos)
    rti6,csi5,fxi5
  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,623
    F1nut wrote: »
    The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

    "4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

    Power factor corrected?

    IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

    No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

    Furman's power correction is a power reserve for sudden large power draws.

    Designed to make sure the conditioner does not choke off higher current equipment that might be hooked up.

    How is that a bad thing?
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    @GlennDog

    PM me about that Furman... it's a PITA to PM using my phone but I might be in the market....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • slbenz
    slbenz Posts: 97
    I use a Panamax Max 5100 and mainly because for two reasons. First, to get rid of the hum that is coming from my Xfinity cable box and two, to remotely turn on my power amps. As for sound, the main thing is elimination of the hum.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    You could have simply had the cable company properly ground the cable feed because the main thing should be the sound quality.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

    "4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

    Power factor corrected?

    IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

    No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

    Furman's power correction is a power reserve for sudden large power draws.

    Designed to make sure the conditioner does not choke off higher current equipment that might be hooked up.

    How is that a bad thing?

    I didn't say it was a bad thing. I was questioning the terminology and methodology.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
    Power factor correction comes into play when the current and voltage are not exactly 180 degrees from each other. Maximum power delivery occurs to the load when the current is at maximum at the moment the voltage swings to minimum and vice versa.

    In industrial loads, inductive loads of a lot of motors can cause power factor numbers to drop and more heating to occur, costs for the power delivery goes up and so forth. The fix is to use the proper amount of capacitance, in that case, to neutralize the inductance and restore proper timing and maximize power transfer.

    Saying that a device has included power factor correction means they assume to know the conditions of the power demand in your home situation without measuring the real world situation. As far as I know, pf correction normally in the vast majority of situations is the addition of capacitance. I'd hazard the guess in our systems our power demand might tend to be pretty capacitive already. Perhaps if the unit has a built in transformer, they are simply neutralizing it's inherent inductance or something. The concept that they could build in proper pf correction (or that it's even needed) seems pretty far fetched to me.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • CoolJazz wrote: »
    Power factor correction comes into play when the current and voltage are not exactly 180 degrees from each other. Maximum power delivery occurs to the load when the current is at maximum at the moment the voltage swings to minimum and vice versa.

    In industrial loads, inductive loads of a lot of motors can cause power factor numbers to drop and more heating to occur, costs for the power delivery goes up and so forth. The fix is to use the proper amount of capacitance, in that case, to neutralize the inductance and restore proper timing and maximize power transfer.

    Saying that a device has included power factor correction means they assume to know the conditions of the power demand in your home situation without measuring the real world situation. As far as I know, pf correction normally in the vast majority of situations is the addition of capacitance. I'd hazard the guess in our systems our power demand might tend to be pretty capacitive already. Perhaps if the unit has a built in transformer, they are simply neutralizing it's inherent inductance or something. The concept that they could build in proper pf correction (or that it's even needed) seems pretty far fetched to me.

    CJ

    Okay @CoolJazz can you translate that to English now please for the rest of us? ;)
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    edited November 2016
    http://www.marway.com/technology/power-conditioning
    Brief summary of why and how bad power boogers up the signal and ways to condition it.
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    edited November 2016
    Okay @CoolJazz can you translate that to English now please for the rest of us? ;)

    That didnt make sense to you? :wink:

    Mark is a smartypants :smile:

    Russ is I think "slightly" smarter than the average bear... but he does a GREAT job at making us think the opposite.... so that could be the case and I'm giving him more credit than he deserves :mrgreen:

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    edited November 2016
    http://www.electricaleasy.com/2015/11/understanding-power-factor.html?m=1
    Power factor (pf) explanation with lagging and capacitive differentials from various load and voltage situations. Easy Peasy....

    And for any of you dingleberries still scoffing at cable sizing for current loads....
    read subpart 4.
  • It's not the size that counts IT'S WHAT YA DO WITH IT!! >:)
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    It's not the size that counts IT'S WHAT YA DO WITH IT!! >:)

    :D Can't argue with ya, there!
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    Yes on SQ. I recommend, as best you can, isolate your low power gear from your high power.

    But last year my (then new*) Outlaw 975 spent more time at Outlaw Repair than in my system before I bought** an APC H15*** power conditioner.

    It*** powers all my low power gear fed by a separate circuit. The high power gear fed by 2 dedicated 20 A circuits.
    * early May 2015
    ** mid December '15

    Some believe line conditioners* actually limit amp power - I agree.
    * unless they're ginormous
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    The OP is looking at something in the neighborhood of $700. Just wants to know if anybody thinks the sq will improve compared to no conditioning.

    Is Shunyata and/or PS Audio a better product. Of course it is, but they are also about 5 times more than what he's looking to spend.

    Everybody needs to get their feet wet. I personally think he will hear a difference if he plugs his gear into the Furman. This is like going from hardware store wire to Blue Jeans cable. Maybe to some not a really big jump, but to others it's huge.

    This is what the OP was asking. Will he hear a difference. Nothing more.

    Real simple jetmaker737, you will hear a difference. There are better products out there , but I understand that you may be scepticle. What you gain in a power conditioner is the lack of sound where it shouldn't be; that simple.

    Isolation units will give you even more lack of sound, which means even better sq, but it comes at a price. Buy the Furman, and see if you can hear a difference. At least you'll protect your gear from power surges/dips, so that would probably be worth it alone.

    The people on this forum know their stuff, but they really like to spend other people's money. Unfortunately sometimes they don't realize that some of us have a tight budget. You really shouldn't hold that against them. It's actually cheaper to do it right the first time, than it is to keep climbing up th food chain

    Go to 5 different sites, and you'll have 5 different recommendations of what to buy Personally happy with my Panamex, but would buy a Shunyata if funds were available. i personally think a power conditioner would make a huge difference in sq.