Power Conditioner - Who's using one? Which one? Did it help your sound?

Jetmaker737 · October 2016

So my rig hasn't changed in 3-4 years (see my sig). I was thinking of changing my amp. It's an Aragon 8008 Mk II. So I googled reviews of it which reminded me that it's a pretty good amp, so maybe I should keep it. Had been perusing Mac, Pass, and Bryston. Solid state.

Anyways, during my research I stumbled across some dude saying that a power conditioner made a big improvement in his system. Naturally I take such claims with a grain of salt, but the rationale seems logical (dirty power, peak current, etc). Currently I'm just using a Belkin plug strip. All components plug into it. I can't plug my amp into the wall by itself and I'm not going to put in a dedicated 20 amp line or anything. For power conditioner I've been looking at the Furman Elite-15 PFi. At $700 it's a lot cheaper than an amp. I know you can go a lot higher, and a little lower. But I like the features for the price.

So my question for you guys is whether you're using a power conditioner and if so, which one? Did it help your sound? Etc.

Thanks,
Jet

honestaquarian · October 2016

Monster power HTPS 7000MKII Signature series and the AVS-2000 Signature series.
They keep the power line hash out and the protected my system earlier this month from a HUGE power surge.

skrol · October 2016

I was skeptical about power conditioners. When I bought my Monster HTS-3600mkII, it was marked down bit time when Circuit City was going out of business and I figured it would at least be good for protection plus the switching capabilities. The dang thing made me a believer in power conditioners. You can actually hear a difference.

rpf65 · October 2016

Running a Panamax MR4300. Bought it because it was on sale, $100 off. It works. I've had lights flicker, and microwave clock not blinking, and the conditioner tripped.

I heard a difference in the upper mid-range area. Seemed to be a more flatter response. Just my personal experience, in my room, with my gear. You may or may not hear a difference.

Furman makes good stuff, at least according to the people who buy it. It will definitely offer better surge protection than the power strip you're currently using. Probably worth the price for that alone.

Can you spend more money for a better product? Yes.

Can you spend less for something just as good? Debatable.

These people here are almost always right. We all hear things differently, so sometimes you won't hear a difference from a suggested upgrade, and sometimes you will. Personally I think you'll hear a difference, but I can't be sure that you will.

F1nut · October 2016

The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

"4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

Power factor corrected?

IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

tonyb · October 2016

F1nut wrote: »

The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

"4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

Power factor corrected?

IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

I might agree with that assessment.....from personal experiences with a Monster 5100 and PS Audio's lower line of power conditioners.

Power conditioners range in prices like any piece of audio gear. All depends on what you want it to do. I wouldn't advise plugging an amp into it though as most consumer grade lower level power conditioners are current limiting.

[Deleted User] · October 2016

+1 on the PS Audio
I use this to good effect. (not that I was having big noise issues to begin w/)
http://hifiheaven.net/shop/PS-Audio-Dectet-Power-Center?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=CIz2xr34hNACFQkKaQodpbkCgA

Nice amp. Are you having hum or noise issues? As others have said,
a blacker background and better bass would be expected...

motorhead43026 · October 2016

^^I use the same, it works well and is built like a tank.

machone · October 2016

Tripp-Lite LCR2400 for sources and preamp
PS Audio Soloist for amp

jdjohn · October 2016

I use a Chang Lightspeed and have been pleased, although my power amp goes directly into the wall, and the Chang is used for the all other components.

mrbiron · October 2016

PS Audio UPC-200

Love the little guy. Have had it for almost 3 years now. Won't ever let it go even though it is sitting idle on a headphone setup that hasn't been used in 6 months. Time to rearrange!

BlueMDPicker · October 2016

I've acquired several PS Audio power products over the years (UPC-200's, Duet, Quintet, Juice Bar) and found all of them capable of lowering the noise floor of solid state and tube gear. Currently, I'm using their PerfectWave P3 regenerator on my main 2CH rig and consider it to be, IMHO, one of the best investments I've ever made in audio gear.

EndersShadow · October 2016

I have 2 APC H15's.

I temporarily have my Crown XLS2000 connected to the the downstairs, but under NO CIRCUMSTANCE do I plan to hook my B&K 200.5 up to it. In the downstairs system the APC H15 runs all my sources, TV, and my AVR. In my loft the APC H15 runs the entire setup, including the Anthem MRX-500 I am using to power my speakers.

My goal for protection for my amp(s) are to pony up and install a whole home protector at the breaker as a first line of protection, and then "maybe" later on look at a Shuntya for just my amps, but thats a much later date.

cvc · October 2016

Corey Greenburg, who used to write for Stereophile, recommended these conditioners back in the day.. The difference is like drinking tap water or bottled water.. Most if us drink bottled water to avoid a mouthful of sea monkees.. I use 2 of these Power Pack II's..

http://www.audiopower.com/newsite/pp2.html

GlennDog · October 2016

I moved-up the food chain to a regenerator, and I'm very happy with it.
The Furman is an excellent product. But, I'll need to sell the good Elite-15 PF i to a worthy home . . . PM me if "innarested"

BlueFox · October 2016

Spend some time on Shunyata's web site reading, and understanding, their technology. There aren't many audio companies who when they release a new product price it less than the previous line. The new Denali line is getting absolute stunning reviews all around, from the press, and customers. I won't be upgrading, but maybe in a few years to the next generation.

I will say adding Shunyata power gear is better than adding a new piece of electronic gear. Of course, you do need to do it right with dedicated 20 amp lines.

gurot1 · October 2016

GlennDog wrote: »

I moved-up the food chain to a regenerator, and I'm very happy with it.
The Furman is an excellent product. But, I'll need to sell the good Elite-15 PF i to a worthy home . . . PM me if "innarested"

I see this message just after buying a used on online today (PFi 15)

Upstatemax · October 2016

F1nut wrote: »

The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

"4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

Power factor corrected?

IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

Furman's power correction is a power reserve for sudden large power draws.

Designed to make sure the conditioner does not choke off higher current equipment that might be hooked up.

How is that a bad thing?

EndersShadow · November 2016

@GlennDog

PM me about that Furman... it's a PITA to PM using my phone but I might be in the market....

slbenz · November 2016

I use a Panamax Max 5100 and mainly because for two reasons. First, to get rid of the hum that is coming from my Xfinity cable box and two, to remotely turn on my power amps. As for sound, the main thing is elimination of the hum.

F1nut · November 2016

You could have simply had the cable company properly ground the cable feed because the main thing should be the sound quality.

F1nut · November 2016

Upstatemax wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

The specs for the Furman Elite-15 PFi state;

"4 (power factor corrected amplifiler outlets - 3 amps RMS reserve - resistive load - over 45 amps peak charge, 2 switched with 5 second delay via 12V trigger)"

Power factor corrected?

IMO, if you are looking for audio grade, look at PS Audio or Shunyata. That's it.

No offense to you Monster users, but their devices choke the music....heard it too many times over the years.

Furman's power correction is a power reserve for sudden large power draws.

Designed to make sure the conditioner does not choke off higher current equipment that might be hooked up.

How is that a bad thing?

I didn't say it was a bad thing. I was questioning the terminology and methodology.

CoolJazz · November 2016

Power factor correction comes into play when the current and voltage are not exactly 180 degrees from each other. Maximum power delivery occurs to the load when the current is at maximum at the moment the voltage swings to minimum and vice versa.

In industrial loads, inductive loads of a lot of motors can cause power factor numbers to drop and more heating to occur, costs for the power delivery goes up and so forth. The fix is to use the proper amount of capacitance, in that case, to neutralize the inductance and restore proper timing and maximize power transfer.

Saying that a device has included power factor correction means they assume to know the conditions of the power demand in your home situation without measuring the real world situation. As far as I know, pf correction normally in the vast majority of situations is the addition of capacitance. I'd hazard the guess in our systems our power demand might tend to be pretty capacitive already. Perhaps if the unit has a built in transformer, they are simply neutralizing it's inherent inductance or something. The concept that they could build in proper pf correction (or that it's even needed) seems pretty far fetched to me.

CJ

honestaquarian · November 2016

CoolJazz wrote: »

Power factor correction comes into play when the current and voltage are not exactly 180 degrees from each other. Maximum power delivery occurs to the load when the current is at maximum at the moment the voltage swings to minimum and vice versa.

In industrial loads, inductive loads of a lot of motors can cause power factor numbers to drop and more heating to occur, costs for the power delivery goes up and so forth. The fix is to use the proper amount of capacitance, in that case, to neutralize the inductance and restore proper timing and maximize power transfer.

Saying that a device has included power factor correction means they assume to know the conditions of the power demand in your home situation without measuring the real world situation. As far as I know, pf correction normally in the vast majority of situations is the addition of capacitance. I'd hazard the guess in our systems our power demand might tend to be pretty capacitive already. Perhaps if the unit has a built in transformer, they are simply neutralizing it's inherent inductance or something. The concept that they could build in proper pf correction (or that it's even needed) seems pretty far fetched to me.

CJ

Okay @CoolJazz can you translate that to English now please for the rest of us?

lightman1 · November 2016

http://www.marway.com/technology/power-conditioning
Brief summary of why and how bad power boogers up the signal and ways to condition it.

EndersShadow · November 2016

honestaquarian wrote: »

Okay @CoolJazz can you translate that to English now please for the rest of us?

That didnt make sense to you?

Mark is a smartypants

Russ is I think "slightly" smarter than the average bear... but he does a GREAT job at making us think the opposite.... so that could be the case and I'm giving him more credit than he deserves

lightman1 · November 2016

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2015/11/understanding-power-factor.html?m=1
Power factor (pf) explanation with lagging and capacitive differentials from various load and voltage situations. Easy Peasy....

And for any of you dingleberries still scoffing at cable sizing for current loads....
read subpart 4.

honestaquarian · November 2016

It's not the size that counts IT'S WHAT YA DO WITH IT!!

lightman1 · November 2016

honestaquarian wrote: »

It's not the size that counts IT'S WHAT YA DO WITH IT!!

Can't argue with ya, there!

gp4jesus · November 2016

Yes on SQ. I recommend, as best you can, isolate your low power gear from your high power.

But last year my (then new*) Outlaw 975 spent more time at Outlaw Repair than in my system before I bought** an APC H15*** power conditioner.

It*** powers all my low power gear fed by a separate circuit. The high power gear fed by 2 dedicated 20 A circuits.
* early May 2015
** mid December '15

Some believe line conditioners* actually limit amp power - I agree.
* unless they're ginormous

rpf65 · November 2016

The OP is looking at something in the neighborhood of $700. Just wants to know if anybody thinks the sq will improve compared to no conditioning.

Is Shunyata and/or PS Audio a better product. Of course it is, but they are also about 5 times more than what he's looking to spend.

Everybody needs to get their feet wet. I personally think he will hear a difference if he plugs his gear into the Furman. This is like going from hardware store wire to Blue Jeans cable. Maybe to some not a really big jump, but to others it's huge.

This is what the OP was asking. Will he hear a difference. Nothing more.

Real simple jetmaker737, you will hear a difference. There are better products out there , but I understand that you may be scepticle. What you gain in a power conditioner is the lack of sound where it shouldn't be; that simple.

Isolation units will give you even more lack of sound, which means even better sq, but it comes at a price. Buy the Furman, and see if you can hear a difference. At least you'll protect your gear from power surges/dips, so that would probably be worth it alone.

The people on this forum know their stuff, but they really like to spend other people's money. Unfortunately sometimes they don't realize that some of us have a tight budget. You really shouldn't hold that against them. It's actually cheaper to do it right the first time, than it is to keep climbing up th food chain

Go to 5 different sites, and you'll have 5 different recommendations of what to buy Personally happy with my Panamex, but would buy a Shunyata if funds were available. i personally think a power conditioner would make a huge difference in sq.

Power Conditioner - Who's using one? Which one? Did it help your sound?

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