Power Conditioner - Who's using one? Which one? Did it help your sound?

gurot1

I don't know if the Furman will choke power to the amps or how it will affect SQ. One of the benefits of the furman elite is that it does not have sacrificial parts (other than for the satellite(?telephone)). Thus it will work for power surges for many years to come.

[Deleted User]

Stop me before I go off the tracks but,
Doesn't PF correction usually entail switching from AC to DC and then back?
Anyway, I would go w/ stuff made for HOME audio.

Upstatemax

I think a lot of you guys way overestimate how much power your systems actually draw.

From what I can see in his sig, he is running a 2ch system. If I have to guess, if he is running his system to near ear bleeding levels he MAY be drawing 6 amps (probably closer to 5).

I have my entire 2ch system hooked up through my Furman Elite 15 DMi. When I turn everything on and turn it up too loud, I might see 2.4 amps of draw.

With larger speakers and extra electronics, I saw a shade over 4 amps.

Clean power is important, but a lot of us do not use nearly as much power as we think we do.

I doubt many of us are pushing our amps near their limits too often...

[Deleted User]

O.K., Furman isn't aimed at Pro Audio. The OP wanted something that
would make a noticeable difference in sound quality.
What Furman product will get him there?

lightman1

Okey dokey. The stuff I work with is nasty. In a pure power delivery way. Every point of attachment along the distribution system will cause a power factor loss beyond regulators or capacitors.
Your utility provider doesn't care if your amp has 125v constant and end user.
But at point of use, it can be "conditioned" . Lagging current is the culprit here. You can't expect a constant voltage at the point of delivery. I've seen voltage drop to 112v and peak at 128v at the same meter base.
So.... if you are looking for stable voltage with a capacitor storage for transients...get the best "point of use" conditioner/regen.

honestaquarian

I have my Sunfire amp and my center channel amp plugged into switched outlets on my Monster AVS-2000 (*which is essentially a variac*)

lightman1

honestaquarian wrote: »

I have my Sunfire amp and my center channel amp plugged into switched outlets on my Monster AVS-2000 (*which is essentially a variac*)

Good point. Variac voltage regulator.

honestaquarian

Thanks @lightman1
The Monster Power 7000 is also plugged into the AVS-2000. If some on here don't like Monster that is fine for them and their systems. It works for me and mine.

Jetmaker737

I'm picking up the Furman unit from GlennDog. I'll report back on my impressions after some time with it. Some real good discussion here. Why I've always liked this site.

Upstatemax

DSkip wrote: »

rednedtugent wrote: »

O.K., Furman isn't aimed at Pro Audio. The OP wanted something that
would make a noticeable difference in sound quality.
What Furman product will get him there?

The one he got should. Perhaps it won't, but the only reason I don't have that unit he has is because I haven't built up the funds to jump on one yet. It is possible it won't yield any results for him, but at the price he paid it was a safe investment.

I can't imagine that it won't.

I have the Elite 15 DMi and it made a very positive impact on my system.

I have my entire 2ch system hooked to it, including amp. MUCH blacker background and improved detail.

I even have pretty darn stable, consistent power.

gp4jesus

honestaquarian wrote: »

...my center channel amp...

Which is your CC amp? Couldn't determine from your sig.

Sorry for thread derail, guys

honestaquarian

gp4jesus wrote: »

honestaquarian wrote: »

...my center channel amp...

Which is your CC amp? Couldn't determine from your sig.

Sorry for thread derail, guys

@gp4jesus
I have the Polk CS-1000p.Which is essentially a CS-400 with a pair of powered subs on each end.
Look below here at my equipment listing.

GlennDog

but at the price he paid it was a safe investment.

I wanted to price it right, but shipping killed me to the other side of the country
For the price, it's a fantastic piece almost 10 out of 10 in appearance/cosmetics & functionality
You WILL dig it, bro!

gurot1

Interesting read this thread is. Interested to hear your impressions of the pfi15. My furman pfi15 just made it to my town via UPS. I just have to self clear the customs payments (will be the first time I try this, wish me luck) so I don't have to pay all those UPS brokerage fees and then pick it up. I will let you guys know what I hear...but my ears aren't the best. Too bad none of you seasoned veterans are close by. If there does happen to be some polkie in my neck of the woods that wants to try it out, I am sure I can lend it for a trial to see if it makes a difference in your system.

skrol

Seems to me that the realized benefit is primarily dependent on the quality of the power at the outlet. If it is poor then greater benefit will be realized with a conditioner. Power factor correction adds to the benefit.

Monster gets little love but they make some decent stuff and the only crime is that it is usually over priced and over hyped. If you get it at a steep discount than good. I was pleasantly surprised that I actually heard benefit with my HTS-3600ii and given that I paid $130, I can't complain. Furman and others are probably better.

gp4jesus

honestaquarian wrote: »

...my center channel amp...

Which is your CC amp? Couldn't determine from your sig.

Googled CS1000p and discovered the RT3000p - WOW! Kinda did that to my RTi A7s by tri-amping one channel so far. CC to follow the left channel, but...

...the Sunfire drives the CC's MT? And is that SK-6506 tweeter something you did? Or did it come that way. I'm afraid to XO the RD-690 tweeter much below 2.6K

Thanks. Again sorry for thread derail, guys

Tony

[Deleted User]

the other 3 amps (20%) are saved for peaks

honestaquarian

gp4jesus wrote: »

honestaquarian wrote: »

...my center channel amp...

Which is your CC amp? Couldn't determine from your sig.

Googled CS1000p and discovered the RT3000p - WOW! Kinda did that to my RTi A7s by tri-amping one channel so far. CC to follow the left channel, but...

...the Sunfire drives the CC's MT? And is that SK-6506 tweeter something you did? Or did it come that way. I'm afraid to XO the RD-690 tweeter much below 2.6K

Thanks. Again sorry for thread derail, guys

Tony

@gp4jesus
The CS-1000P comes with an SL-6502 tweeter.The 6506 tweeter is the one that they used when the CS-400 center got upgraded to "i" status. It's a better tweeter,so I replaced the SL-6502 in the CS-1000P with the SL-6506. Again the CS-1000P is a CS-400 with a pair of powered subs on each end. So it has an AC cord for the amp that powers the subs. That cord is plugged into a switched outlet on the Monster AVS-2000 voltage regulator unit. The CS-1000P is capable of being bi-wired/bi-amped just like the CS-400,so I am running the "Voltage" output from the center channel on my Sunfire amp to the mid woofers and the "Current" output to the tweeter just like I did with my CS-400. The sub amp in the CS-1000P is driven off of the speaker level inputs. Or you can use a line level input to drive it.

tonyb

Rick,
Everything depends on....well, everything. Amps store power theoretically, and use those reserves for those quick transients. However if your habits are loud music or loud movies over a period of time then those reserves of the amp get depleted and it wants more power, more current draw from the wall. This is where you can run into problems with an amp plugged into these current limiting power conditioners.

Depends on the power conditioner, depends on the amp, your listening habits, etc. It's not a one size fits all scenario.

As a rule of thumb in the audio world, it's always better to have more power than not enough, more power reserves so you never run out. Over protection, than too little. Better power conditioners, than too cheaply made.

The ones that use MOV devices are one hit wonders. Meaning they can handle surges, might clean up some noise in the signal, but if they take anywhere near a direct hit they are toast. I had lightning hit 100 feet away and my Monster 5100 was toasted. If your going to spend upwards of 300 bucks for a power conditioner, least get one without these MOV devices so you don't lose 500 bucks in one shot like I did.

Those Mov devices too, like the poly switches in speakers, get weaker over time as they open and close frequently depending on use.

A better example, which is the reason I'm posting, is just this last week I had another lightning strike closer to the house. It actually blew out the retaining wall to my pond that was 4 feet high and spread out those blocks 100 feet away. The PS Audio power conditioner didn't even blink, and it's in the corner of the house closest to the pond.

We buy power conditioners as an insurance policy, peace of mind, sound quality is a side benefit. If you want peace of mind, move away from power conditioners with MOV devices in them. Just my .02 from experience is all.

recoveryone

I was late to the power conditioner game, thinking it was for people that lived in older homes or out in the sticks. A simple Panamax 500 on my 2ch setup in the living room sold me and I went out and picked up a M5300-EX for the HT rig and it paid off big, it not only tighten up the bass on the subs, but saved my 55" from the dreaded dying pixel graying. By providing the full and clean power it needed to wake up those pixels and the screen pops again. The 500 cut out a popping I was getting through the wall as the living room shares the same circuit as the kitchen. Now I just picked up a M5100-EX to upgrade the 500, putting that one in the downstairs bedroom and I have 2 M5300-EX coming for the systems in the up stairs rooms. I have a M5100 in the master bedroom

[Deleted User]

good point on the video. I don't remember, but I probably wasn't considering that.

Willow

lightman1 wrote: »

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2015/11/understanding-power-factor.html?m=1
Power factor (pf) explanation with lagging and capacitive differentials from various load and voltage situations. Easy Peasy....

And for any of you dingleberries still scoffing at cable sizing for current loads....
read subpart 4.

Holy dude , you sound smart!

txcoastal1

Willow wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2015/11/understanding-power-factor.html?m=1
Power factor (pf) explanation with lagging and capacitive differentials from various load and voltage situations. Easy Peasy....

And for any of you dingleberries still scoffing at cable sizing for current loads....
read subpart 4.

Holy dude , you sound smart!

Seeing is believing, kinda goes with beauty is in the eye of the beholder

tonyb

Decent power conditioning is not expensive. You don't have to spend 2 g's to get there.

The PS Audio detect may not have enough outlets for some. Look for the previous model, the Quintet. Plenty of outlets, can run your cable tv through it and pick them up used for around 3 bones. While not on par with PS Audio's other offerings like the premier, they still do a great job with noise reduction, cleaning up video signals, and removing hum issues....surge and spike protection obviously too. Mine has been rock solid for years, quiet as a church mouse.

[Deleted User]

I'll ask in a different way.
Is this power conditioning or power shaving?
Power conditioning, in my mind anyway, is
changing the incoming power from AC to DC,
then back again to AC in a clean and steady state.

I don't need this for my amps, but I'm interested in this for my
UD7007 and empire 598 and maybe
my benchmark DAC2 HGC

kharp1

rednedtugent wrote: »

I'll ask in a different way.
Is this power conditioning or power shaving?
Power conditioning, in my mind anyway, is
changing the incoming power from AC to DC,
then back again to AC in a clean and steady state.

I don't need this for my amps, but I'm interested in this for my
UD7007 and empire 598 and maybe
my benchmark DAC2 HGC

That is power generation, or regeneration. As an electrician I don't believe that quality conditioners "shave" power, there is that potential if proper design or cheaper parts are used.

I'm looking at one of the PS Audio Power Plants. I think fully rectified power could, and should, offer the best starting point.

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Decent power conditioning is not expensive. You don't have to spend 2 g's to get there.

The PS Audio detect may not have enough outlets for some. Look for the previous model, the Quintet. Plenty of outlets, can run your cable tv through it and pick them up used for around 3 bones. While not on par with PS Audio's other offerings like the premier, they still do a great job with noise reduction, cleaning up video signals, and removing hum issues....surge and spike protection obviously too. Mine has been rock solid for years, quiet as a church mouse.

Not sure in this scenario I'd suggest used. Since you have no idea how many surges the unit has handled and IIRC eventually all these units use MOVs which give up the ghost.

So I'd go used if it was me.

Or do what I did and get a whole home protector as your first line of defense and save up for a decent unit.

[Deleted User]

Yes, but the OP was asking about helping the sound.
I don't think a $3,500.00 PS Audio would help the sound
of my Benchmark amp. That is, I bought the detect for
surge protection, ect.

I assume blindly the PS Audio adds distortion. (worse at low listening levels?)
I also assume the PS Audio limits some amp designs
to it steady state power and may slow down timing.

Point is I'd rather put the money into an amp that addresses
these issues than a power plant.

I'm interested if anyone has seen gains with the power plant
in regards to CDP, media player or DAC.

tonyb

EndersShadow wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Decent power conditioning is not expensive. You don't have to spend 2 g's to get there.

The PS Audio detect may not have enough outlets for some. Look for the previous model, the Quintet. Plenty of outlets, can run your cable tv through it and pick them up used for around 3 bones. While not on par with PS Audio's other offerings like the premier, they still do a great job with noise reduction, cleaning up video signals, and removing hum issues....surge and spike protection obviously too. Mine has been rock solid for years, quiet as a church mouse.

Not sure in this scenario I'd suggest used. Since you have no idea how many surges the unit has handled and IIRC eventually all these units use MOVs which give up the ghost.

So I'd go used if it was me.

Or do what I did and get a whole home protector as your first line of defense and save up for a decent unit.

I hear ya on the MOV'S Dan, but the difference with the Quintet is they are replaceable, when some others are not making them a paperweight once they bite the dust.

ken brydson

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Willow wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2015/11/understanding-power-factor.html?m=1
Power factor (pf) explanation with lagging and capacitive differentials from various load and voltage situations. Easy Peasy....

And for any of you dingleberries still scoffing at cable sizing for current loads....
read subpart 4.

Holy dude , you sound smart!

Seeing is believing, kinda goes with beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

Fixed it for ya...