Dreadnaught Avel-Lindberg 1000VA Transformer Group Buy?

1161719212225

Comments

  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    jonicont wrote: »
    When burning in, does volume matter or is just providing a signal enough?
    I'm also still in awe at the sonic upgrade this thing has given me and I've still got a long ways to go on the burn in process.

    Great to hear!

    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    Guys, I have a question to which, unfortunately, I think I know the answer, but I'll ask fro input from those who undoubtedly know:

    Shouldn't there be continuity through both the primary and secondary sides of the transformer when it is properly connected?

    I installed my A-V 100VA transformer today; reassembled Larry's enclosure, and decided to test for continuity before I reinstalled the Dreadnought in my system. I got continuity on the secondary side, but not on the primary side.

    Yes, I should have checked before I reassembled the enclosure, but I was impatient.

    Before I take the enclosure apart to check without using the binding posts, I want to make sure I understand what these readings should be.

    Thanks.
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    Yes, there should be continuity on the primary and secondary side, but not between primary and secondary.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    Thank you, Ray.

    I was pretty sure that was correct, but I wanted to be certain before disassembling the enclosure again.

    Now, I guess I better hope that its a problem with one of my solder connections and not a problem with the primary side of the transformer. :\
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Probably something simple. Someone once posted that when you have a new issue with a piece of gear, most of the time it's related to the last change you made. I would start there and work back.

    If you post a pic it might be easy to diagnose.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    drumminman,

    Thanks. I think I just found the problem.

    It's not that I'm color blind, but I was doing the wiring in the evening under less than ideal light. I mistook the gray wire for the violet wire and therefore had the primary side wired incorrectly.

    The transformer comes with the pairs of wires for the primary side "bundled" with black tubing, and I did not check whether they were bundled for parallel, rather than series, wiring. And, I didn't notice the color difference as noted above.

    My bad! :(

    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Excellent! When I built my first one I thought those colors were very close too. As I recall I had to shine a flashlight directly on them just to be sure I didn't mix them up.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    edited October 2014
    Yes, correcting the "dufus" wirning mistake put the Dreadnought into fine working order!

    Another investment in the education of a newbie! :)

    Thank you, DarqueKnight and drumminman.
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    So how's it sound?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    Neil,

    So far its been playing for a couple of hours, and it sounds better than the 670VA Toroid of Maryland transformer that it replaced. It has added depth and clarity to the rendering, and it is clear that my normal listening level for my preamp will be on 16-18 rather than 22-24 (on a scale of 0-59).

    More later.

    Thanks again for pulling this together!

    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    edited October 2014
    I have a question for those in the know. I've done a bit of poking around here and I haven't found the answer yet. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's out of phase signals from the left speaker going to the right dimensional drivers and vice versa for the sda effect. I'm wondering just how the speakers get these out of phase signals when it's isolated from the opposite speaker's signal with the dreadnaught?
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    The out of phase signals are passed from one speaker to the other through inductive coupling in the transformer. What the transformer prevents is an electrical connection between the speakers which would cause an electrical short circuit with non common ground amps.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Mr_Hz
    Mr_Hz Posts: 176
    I am still waiting delivery. I leave out of town next Tues morning, not returning till late Friday afternoon. No doubt with my luck, delivery will attempt 3 times while I'm gone and send back ( I assume signature required?) May have to touch bases with A-L to see where my delivery is at and possibly make arrangements if not too late.
    2.3TL's - Living Room
    CRS+'s (4.1 TL's) - Office
    SDA1C's - Famdamly Rm
    SDA1C's - Master Bedroom
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042

    The out of phase signals are passed from one speaker to the other through inductive coupling in the transformer. What the transformer prevents is an electrical connection between the speakers which would cause an electrical short circuit with non common ground amps.
    Thanks once again DK. I had to google "inductive coupling" to get a grasp on exactly what that is and now I have a pretty good idea on how the dreadnaught works.
    One more question if you don't mind. Why should the dreadnaught make the speakers so much easier to drive? It's quite noticeable that to get the same listening levels as pre-dreadnaught levels it takes a much lower setting on the volume knob. My amp puts out the same wattage at any impedance so it's not lowered impedance that's causing the increased sensitivity in my case. I'm still in awe of the overall upgrade the dreadnaught has given me and I'd like to understand a little bit better just why it's having such a profound effect
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    I, too, understand the theory behind how the Dreadnought works and, therefore, solves the problem of using non-common ground amps with SDA speakers.

    Yet, the Dreadnought in my system that uses a common ground amp also delivers much higher sound quality with the Dreadnought v. the standard SDA interconnect that came with my 1Cs.

    Moreover, going from the 670VA toroidal transformer to the 1000VA transformer also yields a palpable improvement in sound quality.

    This part of it, I don't understand.
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,050
    I picked mine up from the post office yesterday and can't wait to get it hooked up! VR3 mod binding post plates with speakon connectors were installed this morning which means I'm totally without SDA effect until the dreadnaught is completed. :disappointed: Thanks again to all who made this possible.
    ____________________________________________________________ polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS SVS PB13 Ultra x 2Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, ADCOM 7807, Panasonic UB420, Sony SCD-C333ES, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    dpowell wrote: »
    I picked mine up from the post office yesterday and can't wait to get it hooked up! VR3 mod binding post plates with speakon connectors were installed this morning which means I'm totally without SDA effect until the dreadnaught is completed. :disappointed: Thanks again to all who made this possible.

    You've got a great incentive to get it built! Have at it! :)
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    Why should the dreadnaught make the speakers so much easier to drive? It's quite noticeable that to get the same listening levels as pre-dreadnaught levels it takes a much lower setting on the volume knob. My amp puts out the same wattage at any impedance so it's not lowered impedance that's causing the increased sensitivity in my case. I'm still in awe of the overall upgrade the dreadnaught has given me and I'd like to understand a little bit better just why it's having such a profound effect

    The ground plane of an amplifier contains a lot of electrical noise. The Dreadnought provides isolation from that noise, therefore the signal sounds apparently louder, although, if you measured the pre-Dreadnought and post-Dreadnought signals with a sound level meter, they would measure the same. These analogies illustrate the concept:

    Assume the pre-Dreadnought signal is at a level of 85 dB and that the signal contains 90% music and 10% noise. If the installation of the Dreadnought results in a signal that is 98% music and 2% noise, yet still at 85 dB sound level, the music will sound louder because you are hearing 8.8% more music and 80% less noise. Therefore, you find yourself turning the volume control down to "get back to" the sound level you were used to.

    Another way to look at it is a conversation in a noisy, crowded room. If everyone else in the room stops speaking or if they lower the level of their voices to whispers, the person speaking to you will sound louder even though they are talking at the same level as before. The sound level that was adequate for a conversation in a noisy room is now unnecessarily, and perhaps uncomfortably, loud in a quiet room.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    DarqueKnight,

    As always, a great and clear explanation.

    I think you've also explained the reason the SQ improves -- i.e., less noise in the signal, hence clearer music.

    Thank you.
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,261
    I understand how the isolation transformer is needed with non common ground amps. That makes sense.

    I have no doubt that the transformer does work to improve the quality of sound because you guys say it does. But, it seems odd that an isolation transformer can do a better job of connecting two speakers together than a straight piece of wire. It also seems odd to me that you can add a much much longer length of wire to the circuit that ties two speakers together (the windings in the transformer) and the volume of the speaker will increase. I'm not an electrical engineer but that all seems very odd to me.

    Also, Anytime I mention installing a high quality switch in a circuit for some reason I hear "Don't do that. You don't want to add anything extra that might cause distortion." but adding a transformer seems to be OK. Doesn't that seem inconsistent at best?
    • SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
    • Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    • Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
    • Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    • Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    • SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,261
    DarqueKnight gave a good explanation of how the dreadnaught works while I was typing and it makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
    • SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
    • Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    • Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
    • Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    • Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    • SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    Thanks once again Darqueknight for answering another one of my questions in a way that I can now understand how this works.
    If you don't mind I have yet one more. Since the ground plane of an amplifier has so much noise this now has me wondering. Would it be beneficial to add another one or possibly 2 more dreadnaughts to the negative wire going to the speaker? Would this reduce what little noise must be left yet even further or would this simply be overkill and not noticeable?
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    Since the ground plane of an amplifier has so much noise this now has me wondering. Would it be beneficial to add another one or possibly 2 more dreadnaughts to the negative wire going to the speaker? Would this reduce what little noise must be left yet even further or would this simply be overkill and not noticeable?

    Polk speakers designed for use with the AI-1 have the effects of the transformer accounted for in the design of the speaker. If you were to add more transformers, you will be exceeding the speaker's design and performance parameters in a bad way.

    Also, a transformer is a four terminal device, meaning there are two input leads and two output leads. Putting a transformer in series with the negative speaker wire would mean that only one input lead and one output lead could be used and you would have an incomplete circuit.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    Once again I thank you for your easy to understand explanation Darqueknight. I'll leave well enough alone then and enjoy the huge upgrade the dreadnaught has already given me.
  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,050
    I'm speechless. I can't believe how good this thing sounds and it doesn't even have 5 minutes on it yet.
    ____________________________________________________________ polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS SVS PB13 Ultra x 2Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, ADCOM 7807, Panasonic UB420, Sony SCD-C333ES, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,050
    Direct quote from the wife: "It sounds so much more detailed. Where did you put it and what does it do?" :smiley:
    ____________________________________________________________ polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS SVS PB13 Ultra x 2Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, ADCOM 7807, Panasonic UB420, Sony SCD-C333ES, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Tell her it's magic
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    dpowell wrote: »
    I'm speechless. I can't believe how good this thing sounds and it doesn't even have 5 minutes on it yet.

    Give it some time..........it gets even better. I'd have to rank this one as one of the very best mods I've done to mine and quite possibly the best ever. I've made electronics upgrades in the past that didn't have near the effect that the dreadnaught has.
  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
    drumminman wrote: »
    Tell her it's magic

    It is magic!
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    What are folks using for feet on the cases?
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer