Dreadnaught Avel-Lindberg 1000VA Transformer Group Buy?

headrott

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Maybe. Or maybe it makes an audible difference for the better. It definitely sounds better than all the alternatives I have tried.

Having heard the 800VA AL transformer and the 1000VA AL transformers, I agree with DK that the 1000VA transformer is vastly superior to the 800VA.

I never heard the Plitron 1000VA transformer, however.

allstock

Darqueknight as always you are a wealth of information. I hadn't seen your write up on the Plitron before, certainly answers some of my questions! I have been digging a little deeper into the transformer issue, having a friend who owns a Transformer Manufacturing co is helping ( I think, lol.) You will laugh at what I am currently using, a deal came up for a pair of Cambridge Audio 851W power amps, 800 @4ohms bridged each. That purchase forced my hand on building an isolation unit. Not being sure what direction I would go in, I quickly grabbed what I had at hand, a 300va laminated core 1:1 isolation transformer. It works "great" and allows me to have SDA with monoblocs until I come up with (decide on a) a better unit. Having run with this set-up for a month now, I have to say I am duly impressed with the sound! Far and away better than a straight interconnect cable. I will post my findings when I have some!

DarqueKnight

allstock wrote: »

You will laugh at what I am currently using, a deal came up for a pair of Cambridge Audio 851W power amps, 800 @4ohms bridged each. That purchase forced my hand on building an isolation unit. Not being sure what direction I would go in, I quickly grabbed what I had at hand, a 300va laminated core 1:1 isolation transformer. It works "great" and allows me to have SDA with monoblocs until I come up with (decide on a) a better unit.

Your solution is nothing to laugh at since it works better than a straight cable and it also works better than the stock AI-1.

nspindel

DK, if I can re-state the point you're trying to make, maybe this would clarify things. Please correct me if I'm interpreting you wrong, but I think the point you are making here is that the Avel 1000VA that we've been purchasing in these group buys is not sounding better than the 800VA stock unit because of the extra 200VA. It sounds better because it is a low-noise design built specifically for audio. It is a better, more suited for purpose unit than the 800VA is. One would think that if Avel had an 800VA unit designed specifically for audio, it might sound just as good as the 1000VA. But they don't, so we are using the 1000VA. So the extra 200VA is essentially a red herring in terms of figuring out why it sounds better. Correct?

Toolfan66

The placement of the instruments from the 800 to the 1000 was a big plus as well..

I don't think the 800 sucked by any means though..

allstock

Technically none of these were designed to do what we are doing with them. They were designed to have AC wall voltage going threw them. They are a flavouring, or seasoning device. Every different transformer you put there is going to sound different, because they interact with the crossover in the speaker. Clearly DK's excellent research has turned up a winner, the A-V 1000va unit. I don't fully believe that is because it is an "audio" unit, likely it is just happy coincidence that unit and the Sda's are a good fit. Without another group buy there won't be any more of them. I also won't have one to compare to the several I'm going to try. I may see a correlation to the ones I try that work well vs the specs of the A-V 1000 va unit. Either way it gives me something to mess with over the winter!

DarqueKnight

nspindel wrote: »

DK, if I can re-state the point you're trying to make, maybe this would clarify things. Please correct me if I'm interpreting you wrong, but I think the point you are making here is that the Avel 1000VA that we've been purchasing in these group buys is not sounding better than the 800VA stock unit because of the extra 200VA. It sounds better because it is a low-noise design built specifically for audio. It is a better, more suited for purpose unit than the 800VA is. One would think that if Avel had an 800VA unit designed specifically for audio, it might sound just as good as the 1000VA. But they don't, so we are using the 1000VA. So the extra 200VA is essentially a red herring in terms of figuring out why it sounds better. Correct?

That is correct.

I would add that the 1000VA's extra headroom may provide an audible improvement with high powered amps and bass transients.

Avel does make a 1000VA in the same series as the 800VA, but Avel said it was not recommended for our purposes. The 1000VA Plitron medical grade transformer was better in some aspects than the Avel 800VA, but the 800VA Avel was better in overall stereophonic performance.

Mr_Hz

allstock wrote: »

Technically none of these were designed to do what we are doing with them. They were designed to have AC wall voltage going threw them. They are a flavouring, or seasoning device. Every different transformer you put there is going to sound different, because they interact with the crossover in the speaker. Clearly DK's excellent research has turned up a winner, the A-V 1000va unit. I don't fully believe that is because it is an "audio" unit, likely it is just happy coincidence that unit and the Sda's are a good fit. Without another group buy there won't be any more of them. I also won't have one to compare to the several I'm going to try. I may see a correlation to the ones I try that work well vs the specs of the A-V 1000 va unit. Either way it gives me something to mess with over the winter!

Allstock.....you out there? Interesting to know what you found out with your implementations with isolation transformers...

allstock

Mr_Hz wrote: »

allstock wrote: »

Technically none of these were designed to do what we are doing with them. They were designed to have AC wall voltage going threw them. They are a flavouring, or seasoning device. Every different transformer you put there is going to sound different, because they interact with the crossover in the speaker. Clearly DK's excellent research has turned up a winner, the A-V 1000va unit. I don't fully believe that is because it is an "audio" unit, likely it is just happy coincidence that unit and the Sda's are a good fit. Without another group buy there won't be any more of them. I also won't have one to compare to the several I'm going to try. I may see a correlation to the ones I try that work well vs the specs of the A-V 1000 va unit. Either way it gives me something to mess with over the winter!

Allstock.....you out there? Interesting to know what you found out with your implementations with isolation transformers...

Yes I am here! I only mess with the rig in the winter months. I am in the process of moving and did not do any experimentation as I had planned. I am actually pretty happy the way it is currently. Fortunately I am moving to a bigger house and my listening room is going to go from 11'6" X 29' to 15' X 14'6". I know not ideal dimensions but I have an entire 1500 sq ft unfinished basement to work with if the almost square room doesn't work out!

Mr_Hz

We look forward to any feedback you have on other isolation transformer possibilities you might experiment with. Good luck with the move, and all the efforts & headaches that entails!

250GTLusso

I know I am relatively new to CP, but I have been a Polk owner (SDA-1C) since 1987, and have been dedicated to the SDA line. I have recently acquired a pair of ADCOM GFA-565 mono-block amps that I would like to use with my 2.3TLs that I acquired about a year ago. I have decided to utilize a Dreadnaught in lieu of strapping the negative terminals together. I have also decided to use the 1KVA Avel Lindberg toroid. Given that these are special order, with a minimum order quantity of 10 units, I thought I would bump this thread back to the top of the list to see if we might be able to get 9 others interested in a group buy?

Any others interested?

F1nut

If you don't get enough interest, the 800VA isn't that far off the mark.

honestaquarian

What does one of those 1kva's go for anyway?

nspindel

A few years ago they were at $280 each if you bought 10 units. But I'm sure the price is up a bit since then, you might want to try calling Avel and ask them. Ask for Melanie.

The group buy works great because Avel ships them individually to each person who purchases, the person coordinating the transaction is just the point person for the payment.

nspindel

I still can't believe someone got themselves banned from CP in this group buy!

250GTLusso

I just spoke with Melanie at Avel Lindberg. Very nice lady. She was so funny. When I said that I was calling about a certain audio grade transformer, she said "...ohhhhh I know the one you are calling about!" She is going to provide me with a quote (tomorrow) for a minimum order of 10. I'll provide the cost and schedule details as soon as I get them.

westmassguy

nspindel wrote: »

I still can't believe someone got themselves banned from CP in this group buy!

I do Neil, I remember the whole thing LOL

VSAT88

voltz wrote: »

OK I'm in then, I doubt I'll find any SDA to need it, but never saw never and maybe someday a polkie will want a Dreadnaught.

Plus I'm in a good mood, just upgrade the crossover's in my Monitor 4's myself and only burn my self once and It sounds awesome. I went with Claritycap PX's and it works LOL and sounds really sweet without any burn in time!

Your GREAT !! Love those PX Clarity caps as well !

GDP

I have a question, I have a pair of 2 b's that are blade / blade can they use the dreadnaught or is it just the pin / blade version?

RandyCroissant

Pin blade only, blade blade are a whole different breed

RandyCroissant

I take that back some blade blade will work however you will have to examine the crossover and make sure it follows the pin blade design.

VSAT88

pitdogg2 wrote: »

nspindel wrote: »

Congratulations scuba, you're out. If you're going to sling more insults at DK's research and reduce it all to a placebo effect, then I feel no reason to help you get your hands on one of these transformers. We have each other's backs around here. Check your paypal, you've been issued a full refund.

Drumminman, PM coming your way.

AWESOME Neil

I do not have a use for one but I will help out if need be on this.

If you guys cant sell it I will sell something if I have to and buy it myself. I have never read a post like this here at Club Polk..Petty does not cover it by a long shot. These guys have taught me all I know about Polk Audio speakers and I hold them in high regard. Shame on you Scuba.

VSAT88

motorstereo wrote: »

Moose68Bash wrote: »

Improvisation! I love improvisation! Well done.

Now, let me betray my ignorance: What does "rattle can" mean? Does it mean that you painted the seat base with spray paint?

Thank you for the detailed description of the "build." All I need to do is to find some surplus "line control" stands -- for lack of a better term.

I want to build stands for a pair of vintage Allison 6 speakers that need to be elevated and backed up against a wall. Yours look very sturdy and about the right height. And, I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on them!

Thanks, again.

Yes just like drumminman mentioned it's just a can of black spray paint. And yes thanks; that's a good description of the stand as "improvised". It does serve the purpose quite well, didn't cost much, and it was a fun build as well.
If you're ever down this way I have a pair of those line control stands (minus the boat seat mounts) that are excess to my needs. They're yours for the asking. I'm sure with a little "improvisation" they would work great with your Allisons.
I do believe it's time for me to give back a little karma to another polkie after all that I've received mostly from this thread.

Did someone say where we can get said "black spray paint" ?? LOL.

VSAT88

Scott_Free wrote: »

If anyone is selling a 800VA unit please message me. Thank you.

Yeah, me too ! LOL

VSAT88

RandyCroissant wrote: »

I take that back some blade blade will work however you will have to examine the crossover and make sure it follows the pin blade design.

Hey, you may have the same version of the 2bs that I
have and they are straight thru. One cable is all that is
required between mine. If I am right that means you can most
definitely use a dread..At least I think that's what was explained
to me.
Double check and maybe this link will help. Hope I am not too far off topic..

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170934/sda-iib-single-active-wire-in-the-interconnect-isolation-transformer-question#latest

GDP wrote: »

I have a question, I have a pair of 2 b's that are blade / blade can they use the dreadnaught or is it just the pin / blade version?

F1nut

VSAT88 wrote: »

Scott_Free wrote: »

If anyone is selling a 800VA unit please message me. Thank you.

Yeah, me too ! LOL

You can buy the 800VA version from Avel, it's a stocked item.

F1nut

VSAT88 wrote: »

RandyCroissant wrote: »

I take that back some blade blade will work however you will have to examine the crossover and make sure it follows the pin blade design.

Hey, you may have the same version of the 2bs that I
have and they are straight thru. One cable is all that is
required between mine. If I am right that means you can most
definitely use a dread..At least I think that's what was explained
to me.
Double check and maybe this link will help. Hope I am not too far off topic..

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170934/sda-iib-single-active-wire-in-the-interconnect-isolation-transformer-question#latest

GDP wrote: »

I have a question, I have a pair of 2 b's that are blade / blade can they use the dreadnaught or is it just the pin / blade version?

It has nothing to do with having a single cable, all SDA's have a single cable. It has to do with the design of the crossover. The general rule is in order to use the AI-1 or Dreadnought the speakers will have the pin/blade cable/socket. There are a very limited number of blade/blade 2B's and a few other models that can use the AI-1 or Dreadnought.

VSAT88

F1, I may well be mistaken but I thought I had been told by you that my blade blade 2b speakers were of the type that can be used. It seems that we spoke in another thread about it. My 2bs have one active cable in the interconnect. Only one cable connects between the speakers, the other blade has no connection whatsoever. It terminates to nothing but a blade on the cup/backplate never attaching to the crossover network. I think I spoke with you but maybe it was someone else here and they said I could use an AI-1 / Dreadnought however I would need connect / terminate it at the speaker grounds. When I have time I will try and look back thru my threads and see if I can find it. Thanks for the advice about the 800VA transformer. I have a thread in WTB about a used one and I can wait if need be. I do not have the extra cash now to order new however I do have a case picked out. An old Eico tube Oscilloscope case gutted out. At least I thought about it anyway.

agfrost

nspindel wrote: »

I still can't believe someone got themselves banned from CP in this group buy!

it was well deserved. Good times.

westmassguy

Some early production 2Bs and 1Cs used leftover component's from the 3rd generation. Cabinets, IC Cables and Sockets, and I recently had a 1C that had jury-rigged 1B circuit boards. Always best to check exactly what you have.