An important message from the Management

halo71

SolidSqual wrote: »

Last time someone said, "Change is coming", things didn't turn out like people Hoped.

Same thing I was thinking! I have seen it happen on several other forums. Members don't heed the warnings, then the powers that be either step in and clean things up and leave long time members mad. Or nothing happens and the site develops a bad reputation.

I also agree that the Clubhouse should be split into subforms. And the 'new members' that come here, boost 25 posts just to sell something then they are gone, kinda rubs me the wrong way. I know they followed the rules, but its a waste of space on the forum servers to me. I think the Classifieds sections should not be visible to new members. And somehow, if possible, require the "For Sale" thingy beside the thread title. That way they could not post a for sale ad in other parts of the forum.

Ricardo

More forum sections is not going to make any difference. It is the attitude of some members that needs to change. Nothing wrong with some humor here or there, but sometimes we go beyond the line.

We are all adults and the message is clear. There are rules (some of them don't need to be written, it's just common sense/etiquette). Break the rules, you're out.

It will require enforcement. I'll start watching myself.

mrbofus

Serendipity wrote: »

That's why I asked for an Automotive section. Where threads like "How do I change my oil" or "Question about CV Joints and Suspension" can be posted without hearing the Ford vs. Chevy debate. Let's face it, some of us are looking for advice (audiobliss, for example) on their automotive problems and don't want the threads to turn into arguments.

Understood and agreed.
I guess my point was anything asked can become controverial.
I like the 3 strike and your out idea too.

concealer404

mhmacw wrote: »

of course this might be very subjective but i think as time goes on you can see from the posts who is involved with which and how many arguments. this is in essence a debate forum. when there are so many ways to do something its no longer a discussion of facts but a factual discussion. it would seem to me the same users are involved or at least have participated in the majority of the arguments. if i were to give a humble suggestion AL i would say start over the post count. or pull the plug and reset the numbers. keep the info but the post count seems to give sense of hierarchy and to me the "ive been here longer" type attitude tends to create an above the law mentality. no one is any better than anybody else here. there may be different levels of experience but not different levels of humanity. thanks AL i appreciate your forum and all it has done for my ears. kind regards, Dan

Post count isn't going to change personalities or what people post, though.

disneyjoe7

Ricardo wrote: »

It will require enforcement. I'll start watching myself.

Here, Here, I agree and can be better myself.

Poee7R

The easiest way to tone things down would be to add a couple more mods. Not to say that Doro isnt good at the job, but simply spread too thin. Dont know if Russ is even around much anymore, and they were the only two I know of that are mods beyond Patrick, and in house staff.

Ive been around the internet for many many years and have seen some great and some not so great forums, this being one of my all time favorites (dont take my post count into mind, I'm more of an entertainee than an entertainer), I believe it just needs a couple more moderators, for when things go overboard.

Also whoever suggested that the For Sale forum stays hidden until so many posts, is a great idea, as alot of the people that do spam up a post count, to post something for sale create alot of negativity. Easy fix though, hide the forum until higher post count or time as a member, maybe even both.

Here's to hoping things dont change too much though, there's a reason why so many love this place.


Dave

treitz3

kab wrote: »

Do you want to be a part of this or do you want to exit?

Al, I'd like to be a part of it.

As a "relative" new guy on campus, my opinion is just that. An opinion. Hopefully you, Patrick, Mark and others at Polk management will at least consider what ideas I'd like to present that may work. That said, here goes....

[Eyes]
You had mentioned not having enough eyes. You have many eyes available here at your grasp. This does not mean that they need to be a mod or many more mods need to be available at all hours of the day and night. What I'm saying is that we have many a member on this forum that believe in this forum and contribute regularly [in a positive fashion] that would be more than willing to be your eyes for you.

Enlist these folks on a volunteer basis and possibly give them an avenue to chat behind the scenes as to what to do or how to possibly steer a troll or an abusive string of posts into a more positive, hopefully productive discussion. This would possibly serve the forum in a more positive light and possibly prevent the thread or threads from spiraling completely out of control.

[Trolls]
It is very apparent that trolls come in and start their stirring of the pot. A relative new person to the forum can spot this a mile away as well as the old timers. When someone comes in with a personal attack like "WipeyourHeiney", in reference to Heiney9, or calls folks an **** for no apparent reason, while at the same time spewing the same "stuff" that may or may not have anything to do with the discussion at hand that they are a troll.

Many times, the troll will stick to just one thread and that's good. Sometimes the troll will extend out to many threads and history has shown since I have been here, that a lot of those threads are the ones that get closed down. IMO, the trolls need to be dealt with immediately. This will prevent many threads and arguments from going down the drain.

[Warnings]
You may want to consider a warning system. When someone does something that is in poor taste or reflects upon the forum in a bad way [or trolls], you might want to consider a behind the scenes "warning" to shape up and start reflecting him/herself as a positive force on this forum and not a detriment. Tell them what was unacceptable so that they know exactly where they crossed the line.

The second warning I would suggest to make public. I would also like to suggest that it be issued by the moderator(s). Once again, let them know where they crossed the line so that everybody involved in the discussion knows exactly where the line was crossed. If two or more people within a thread need a warning, so be it.

The third warning would be a temporary 30 day vacation from Polk Audio, no exceptions.

The fourth and final warning would result in a permanent banning.

My only other suggestion would be that all warnings would be monitored by all "eyes", mods, admins and Polk so that everybody is on the same page and no one person can make anything personal at any point.

[25 post before you sell rule]
Simply put a new member sales section up. Those that would like to purchase anything from that section would already [one would hope] have enough sense to know that "buyer beware" in this section would be a rule of thumb. Change nothing else in the current FM as it is currently a great system.




That said, I would like to offer my time when I'm on the board to be one of the "eyes" I was referring too. I don't want pay, I don't want recognition, I don't want praise. I'd just like to help make this board a better place for all that chime in or lurk. Thank you for taking your time to read this.

nooshinjohn

I believe strongly that there is a concerted effort on the part of some new members to bring trouble here, and this is their only reason for joining in the first place. There has been a mission of trying to get Club Polk closed up. When a post such as yours has been made publicly admitting the possibility, they will gloat on the other boards about it. I won't single any one individual or group, but there are more than a few boards that will gleefully be discussing this and will perhaps come here to add fuel to the fire. I have seen members of other boards suggest such action and have witnessed the results here. I also believe that nearly anyone that complains to you about their treatment at the hands of the forum community would fall into this group, and have no intentions of ever owning Polk gear in the first place.

As with the body, members here react to those that come here to start trouble like antibodies to a virus and the best thing that could happen is to remove the cause of the trouble.

One of the best aspects of CP is that it has been here longer than most any other online audio community, and what I see happening is that those of us that love this place have become protective of it and other members, just as any family would. This is understandable, and even desirable.

There must be a stronger look taken at newcomers to CP. Perhaps something along the lines of a valid product serial number to gain full and immediate access to all areas of the site and a 25 post minimum for members that do not to gain access to anything other than a few areas of the board. All newbie areas should be narrowly focused to asking Polk Audio product information only. This would allow the basic character of an individual to be assessed before further access can be granted. Once they have the required number of posts to gain access to other areas, new members should be made aware upfront via an E-sign document what the rules of posting are and the conduct expected by Polk Audio. Whatever these policies are, they should be enforced equally and without malace.

Another point would be for there to be a few mods that are members. Having a few upstanding members allowed to temporarily block a troller from posting and lock threads pending further review from You, Doro and Patrick would go a long way to calming the place down. I beleive this will quickly end trolling as the ones responsible for the action will be stopped in their tracks. This would also prevent the long pissing matches that begin when long-standing members get protective of their online home.

Cp is to big a place to be administered by a relative handful of people, and has been for a very long time. I hope that it continues to thrive. I am willing to commit myself here and now to doing whatever I can to ensure that it does.

John

Toolfan66

There will always be good apples and bad apples that come and go. I for one have taken alot from this place, and I have spent alot of money on polk products in the last year because of this place, as well I have spent alot of money on other audio items because of this place. I have met alot of good people here that I hope one day I will get to meet face to face. So I do believe this place is working and working well for the most part.

I am not sure what would make it better other then not letting the bad apples get the best of us and being drug under there bus, and letting the mods do there job and filltering them out or just don't respond to them and let them fad away on there own. I for one will take responsibility for my own actions from time to time, and letting something get the best of me, It happens to all of us now and then.

I for one love this place and what it has to offer all of us. It is real easy to stop and look at all the negetive that happens around here, why not stop and look at all the good that goes on around here.

The karmas
The Help we give one another
The mini polk fest's that happen for other's that share the same passion.
This list can go on and on, and don't be afraid to add to my list as this needs to be seen as well.

We are human and we will make mistakes, and this goes for the mods as well as no one is perfect...

Peace to all, now go listen to some SDA's..:)



P.S Bring back Joe......;)

tonyb

Hmmm....I've been around awhile and can agree to the fact that trouble makers have been around since day one. That said, the agravating part, and purely my opinion, is the lack of moderators,or whoever is keeping an eye on the forum, of timely correcting situations before they get out of hand. The club has grown over the years and with it the amount of trouble makers,no news there. Would it not make sense to have more mods? We need to be more proficient at nipping things alittle quicker rather than waiting for 10 pages of B.S. with tempers flairing higher at every page. I'm not privey to the inner workings of how the forum is watched, but I do think appointing more mods can only help. This forum has been a huge benefit to not only those in quest of knowledge,but to polk audio themselves also and would be a shame to see that end. We all know as a public forum,it's hard to control who walks in the door,but you can control who walks out. We just need to do it on a more timely basis. Just my .02 is all.

Serendipity

Poee7R wrote: »

The easiest way to tone things down would be to add a couple more mods.

+1

I have no issues with anyone here and think it is a great community. If the forum needs a hand, I have no problems with helping out in this regard. Please contact me if that's what the forum is looking for. I would like to help out as a mod if possible.

fatchowmein

I wonder if the state of the global economy is causing the general feeling of malaise and hostility around here. Regardless of what is done, we may be looking at the Dark Ages on the forum until the good times roll again.

Sherardp

I would definitely hate to see the forum go away. I usually come here first after getting in the office, post in a couple threads and read up on things I missed due to the time difference. I made allot of good friendships here, not to mention everyone here is so down to earth. I get allot of answers to my questions when needed, so the knowledge base is extremely important to me. Whatever is done, I hope shutting down the forums is not the decision made.

Demiurge

What does Polk expect to happen when there are basically only two guys running this place? I know there are more than that, but face it -- dorokusai and Patrick C (who I assume has many more responsibilities) are the only two who openly get involved here on a regular basis that anyone can see. Until recently, it was only the old guard who knew dorokusai was a moderator.

In the face of this lack of moderation, you have people who feel very strongly about this forum taking it upon themselves to police it. Few were qualified and many were not. For better or worse, they used the tools that were at their disposal and that often got ugly. Again, what do you expect? These people do not have the ability to lock threads, issue temporary bans, or have any real influence through private message.

You need more moderators, and unless there's an internal policy I'm not privy to -- they don't need to be people collecting a paycheck from Polk Audio.

This place completely lacks direction. If I was Polk I would look to the people who helped mold this forum into the great place it is (or was, if you're feeling cynical). Many of those folks have simply left already. Polk's problem isn't simply placating new folks, which forgive me for saying, seems to be the track Polk has taken of late.

Old timers act like they own the place and want to close the door behind them.

It's comments like this that make me cynical about the future here. While nobody but Polk owns this forum, you cannot deny that there are many folks out there who have put a lot into this place, be it money, time, or knowledge. They did it for nothing other than to make friends and have a place to hang out.

As I said above, you'd do well to throw them a bone. Without them, this place is just another forum.

Serendipity

Ricardo wrote: »

More forum sections is not going to make any difference.

Why not? IMO, one of the reasons a lot of the threads in the Clubhouse turn into arguments is because they mix with a lot of other things. I've seen politics interweaved with automotive threads. If we keep the sections to useful topics, such as "Household DIY Projects", "Automotive Questions", or "Computer Help", there may be fewer debates. Such threads that are serious inquiries should be separated from the politics, etc. If there's no room for it, it (arguments) won't happen.

kevhed72

If you would not say something to somebody in person, then you should not type it on a keyboard. As a "novice" at best on this forum, I would be bummed if it shut down because I believe this forum has the best knowledge base of any audio-video related forum on the net.

just my .02

nooshinjohn

More mods would certainly help stop the CVV-Dumps and unlocked I-Phone threads we get these days...

Rivrrat

Here's my .02.

I'm a mod on another board's political forum, and when I was drafted for the job it made this place look like romper room.

Yes I think we need more mods, I also think they need to be identified as mods. I don't know what powers they have, but their powers need to be posted for the forum to see.

We (4 of us) cleaned up that forum by deleting posts, deleting sentences, locking threads at the first sign of trouble, and nobody got banned. Some left over "heavy handed" moderation, but they're the ones that caused the problems anyway.

Basically there needs to be more deputies, and they need to be visible.

VR3

I think to join you need to have owned Polk speakers and need to provide serial numbers.

Just like when I joined... I think that will fix alot of problems - people who do not own polks can read and ask questions in a tech based forum pertaining to polk

Serendipity

If the Clubhouse were just these five sections, for example:

"Automotive Questions"
"Computer Tech and Hardware"
"Household Projects"
"Multimedia - Post your YouTube / home videos here"
"Hobbies, Reviews, and your Weekend"

Would there be any room for politics?

concealer404

Serendipity wrote: »

If the Clubhouse were just these five sections, for example:

"Automotive Questions"
"Computer Tech and Hardware"
"Household Projects"
"Multimedia - Post your YouTube / home videos here"
"Hobbies, Reviews, and your Weekend"

Would there be any room for politics?

There are still plenty of things to argue about, there... Personally, and i may be seeing something different, but i don't see politics to be a big issue here. Someone posts something political, and it gets reported. That's about the end of it. It doesn't even seem to happen often.

nooshinjohn

concealer404 wrote: »

Someone posts something political, and it gets reported. That's about the end of it. It doesn't even seem to happen often.

REPORTED for using the word politics;):p...

Zitro

cfrizz wrote: »

I love this board & and like & respect most of the people on here. And if this message is enough to get through to the extremely thick, skulls that are doing more harm than good around here, that would be great.

If not, then PLEASE start banning them. Again it has to be even handed & the old timers need to go as well as the newer members.

Don't worry, the rest of us who do know how to act like civilized human beings will be around to make sure that this forum continues to grow and flourish & be one of the most helpful & informative forums on audio!

Agreed with cfrizz. I am obviously a very new member, but this forums has done a lot for me in terms of teaching, advice and making informed decisions. Not to mention, it's the only place I go when I want to talk strictly audio, as lets face it, I don't know about you guys, but most of my friends couldn't care less about sound quality. So, when I want to talk hifi, I come here. It would really suck to see this place go, as I'm really enjoying it and have had a lot of fun with it. Not to mention I learn a lot about my hobby through it.

I'm a member of a few forums myself, but this one feels different; it really does feel like a family in a weird way. As bad as this forum can get sometimes, it has easily been the most helpful forum out of all of the ones I'm a part of. It helped keep my interest going, and honestly, I knew a lot less about audio than I do now after joining this forum. So, to those who may be causing some trouble (as we all do from time to time): for the sake of those who have found this forum a very helpful, fun place, please follow the rules! I would hate to see Club Polk go...

Serendipity

concealer404 wrote: »

There are still plenty of things to argue about, there... Personally, and i may be seeing something different, but i don't see politics to be a big issue here. Someone posts something political, and it gets reported. That's about the end of it. It doesn't even seem to happen often.

I may be seeing it incorrectly too... but in the first post, Al talked about "shutting down the Clubhouse." I looked through the Clubhouse and basically see 5 or 6 different types of useful threads:

Cars
Computers
Household Projects
Multimedia (Pics, Videos, etc.)
Hobbies (photography, fishing, etc.)
Happenings (snow shoveling)

Why not just make it specific sections?

Fireman32

I would hate to see this place shut down. This is my homepage both at home and at work. I stay out of alot of the threads because I choose to. I am not going to get involved in a argument if I dont need to. I have met alot of good people through this forum and look foward to Polkfest every year and any other gatherings that happen with the local polkies.

I do think change is needed. I argree that we need more mods. Mark and Patrick cant handle it all alone and its not fair to them to have all the resonsobility on the their shoulders alone. If there are more mods to help out it may make things go more smoothly around here. I would be more than happy to help out if needed. If not then I will try to stay out of any trouble.

As far as the for sale section mabye we need to up the post count from 25 to 50 or a you have to be here for a period of time. We have alot of long term members here with a very low post count so mabye a time frame before you can sell would be better. Mabye 60 days and a 50 post count would deter ther people that just want to sell there stuff and move on.

Dave

Toolfan66

nooshinjohn wrote: »

REPORTED for using the word politics;):p...

He used the word political not politics...;)

Rivrrat

Maybe another part of the solution would be to make the clubhouse for approved members only. that way the casual person looking for info on Polks forum isn't going to see the antics going on in the clubhouse, and the regular members get to play.

nooshinjohn

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

He used the word political not politics...;)

read the whole post.:D

cfrizz

treitz3 wrote: »

[Trolls]
It is very apparent that trolls come in and start their stirring of the pot. A relative new person to the forum can spot this a mile away as well as the old timers. When someone comes in with a personal attack like "WipeyourHeiney", in reference to Heiney9, or calls folks an **** for no apparent reason, while at the same time spewing the same "stuff" that may or may not have anything to do with the discussion at hand that they are a troll.

Many times, the troll will stick to just one thread and that's good. Sometimes the troll will extend out to many threads and history has shown since I have been here, that a lot of those threads are the ones that get closed down. IMO, the trolls need to be dealt with immediately. This will prevent many threads and arguments from going down the drain.

And WHO decides who is a troll? This is the label anyone gets who dares to mention Emotiva. Then a certain few jump all over them rather than simply ignore the whole thread.

Same with the posters who are simply looking to up their post count to sell something. Simple answer is ignore them & they will go away. But too many times, certain people try to be the tough guys & trouble starts.

Demiurge wrote: »

It's comments like this that make me cynical about the future here. While nobody but Polk owns this forum, you cannot deny that there are many folks out there who have put a lot into this place, be it money, time, or knowledge. They did it for nothing other than to make friends and have a place to hang out.

As I said above, you'd do well to throw them a bone. Without them, this place is just another forum.

Sorry Demi, but it is some of these very same people who cause the most problems, and always have.

I DON'T CARE how much time/money/knowledge they have put in here it doesn't make their behavior right. Too many bones have been tossed their way & they have been allowed to get away with too much which is why the forum is in the state it's in.

It is only a few, the vast majority of the long time members on here know how to conduct themselves & I don't believe that this forum will collapse & die without the troublemakers.

Many have already left and the forum HAS continue to grow. There are many on here myself included who will continue to help newbies put together the best systems that they can because that is why we are here. To HELP and contribute positively to this forum. Not to stroke & boost our own egos.

That is the point of Al's post. It is his responsibility to do what is in the best interest of Polk Audio not about thowing some long time bully a bone at the expense of Polks reputation.

concealer404

Serendipity wrote: »

I may be seeing it incorrectly too... but in the first post, Al talked about "shutting down the Clubhouse." I looked through the Clubhouse and basically see 5 or 6 different types of useful threads:

Cars
Computers
Household Projects
Multimedia (Pics, Videos, etc.)
Hobbies (photography, fishing, etc.)
Happenings (snow shoveling)

Why not just make it specific sections?

Because it's not going to solve anything, as far as i can tell? Separating into sections doesn't stop arguments. It just moves those arguments into specific sections.