Amazingly disappointed

ls7z06

My 2 channel consists of a set of LSi9's, an Onkyo AVR used as a pre, an Emo UPA-2, a Wadia 170i, and a Marantz SA8003. Thought I might need a better amp. Ordered a $2500 Krell s300i integrated. Hooked it up last night. What a disappointment. Bass TOTALLY disappeared. Depth, clarity and precision all got real muddy. I was amazed. I tinkered with it for about an hour and finally figured out I had everything right. It just did not sound good at all. I yanked it out and will send it back. Hooked my $300 Emotiva back up and all is well again. When I called for a RA number, the rep said I needed to give it a 200 hour burn in! I said I did not want to spend 200 hours being disappointed for what the Krell cost. It is going back. Maybe it was defective. So... I guess that all makes me an official Emoette!

tcrossma

Whatever. Burn-in is real. If you don't like it, fine, send it back and be happy with what you have.

mini-me

ls7z06 wrote: »

My 2 channel consists of a set of LSi9's, an Onkyo AVR used as a pre, an Emo UPA-2, a Wadia 170i, and a Marantz SA8003. Thought I might need a better amp. Ordered a $2500 Krell s300i integrated. Hooked it up last night. What a disappointment. Bass TOTALLY disappeared. Depth, clarity and precision all got real muddy. I was amazed. I tinkered with it for about an hour and finally figured out I had everything right. It just did not sound good at all. I yanked it out and will send it back. Hooked my $300 Emotiva back up and all is well again. When I called for a RA number, the rep said I needed to give it a 200 hour burn in! I said I did not want to spend 200 hours being disappointed for what the Krell cost. It is going back. Maybe it was defective. So... I guess that all makes me an official Emoette!

Thanks man! Why get a Krell when you get an Emotiva? :rolleyes:I am also considering Emotiva for Home Theater amp. You just makes me more interested in the Emotiva!

Montoya

Pics or it never happened.
J/k stick with the krell hard to grasp that a emo and an a/v receiver trounced that unit. Let those electronics burn in before you dismiss it. Just my 2 cents

venomclan

Something is not right. Krell is the master of bass and detail, and has plenty of power for the 9's. Try the burn in, but it sounds like it is a deeper problem.
VENOM

leroyjr1

I think a $2500 Krell deserves better speakers. Are you able to try out any SDA's on the Krell?

hearingimpared

I'm in the burn-in camp also. To give it a chance you need to give it time to settle in. It can't hurt as Krell will give you a refund even after the burn in period. Try running a CD in loop mode, keep the volume at a moderate setting so as not to disturb the rest of the family and leave it on for the 200 hours. I think you will be delighted and surprised at the difference in SQ compared to playing it cold with no burn-in.

nooshinjohn

I think the OP is FOS... this is an attempt to get a bash session going and nothing more. How completely transparent at that.

ls7z06 wrote: »

So... I guess that all makes me an official Emoette!

No, but officially rediculous, yes.

Slinger182

nooshinjohn wrote: »

i think the op is fos... This is an attempt to get a bash session going and nothing more. How completely transparent at that.

++++++1

thsmith

Its probably a synergy thing. I agree burn in will make things improve (ideally) but from my experience if its going to be better it is better right off and only gets better.

For example I swapped out the OEM Solen output caps on my tube pre for Mundorf Silver oils and the improvement was immediate and will get better over time.

YMMV

Face

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I think the OP is FOS... this is an attempt to get a bash session going and nothing more. How completely transparent at that.

I don't, what he's experiencing can be very real if the Krell is brand new.

LS7, at least give the Krell some time to see if there is an improvement.

markmarc

Bait or not, I know that Krell's are supposedly notorious for needing some serious burn-in time. One has to also consider the speaker cables being used.

nooshinjohn

Face wrote: »

I don't, what he's experiencing can be very real if the Krell is brand new.

LS7, at least give the Krell some time to see if there is an improvement.

My take is if he was SERIOUS about his trying a new amp, he would follow the advice and instructions of the maker rather that his narrow and preconceived ideas. For him to state that the Krell does not stack up after only an hour of run time, most of which was spent playing with the gear rather than listening, strikes me as being biased and unwilling to try. Buyers remorse perhaps?

That would be like driving a Pinto to a Ferrari dealership to buy the car of your dreams, paying for it, and then changing your mind because the dealer told you to take it easy for the first 5000 miles. The OP wants to smash his foot to the floor and fly from the get-go.

Good things come to those who wait. For those that cannot wait, there will always be a two dollar hooker on the corner.

Slinger182

I was just going to say even a Ferrari needs break in time and proper tires to really go..

F1nut

ls7z06 wrote: »

My 2 channel consists of a set of LSi9's, an Onkyo AVR used as a pre, an Emo UPA-2, a Wadia 170i, and a Marantz SA8003. Thought I might need a better amp. Ordered a $2500 Krell s300i integrated. Hooked it up last night. What a disappointment. Bass TOTALLY disappeared. Depth, clarity and precision all got real muddy. I was amazed. I tinkered with it for about an hour and finally figured out I had everything right. It just did not sound good at all. I yanked it out and will send it back. Hooked my $300 Emotiva back up and all is well again. When I called for a RA number, the rep said I needed to give it a 200 hour burn in! I said I did not want to spend 200 hours being disappointed for what the Krell cost. It is going back. Maybe it was defective. So... I guess that all makes me an official Emoette!

I'm embarrassed for you.

polkatese

I have a Krell 400xi integrated running LSi15. Muddy? hmmm....

nooshinjohn

ls7z06 wrote: »

Hooked my $300 Emotiva back up and all is well again. When I called for a RA number, the rep said I needed to give it a 200 hour burn in! I said I did not want to spend 200 hours being disappointed for what the Krell cost. It is going back. Maybe it was defective. So... I guess that all makes me an official Emoette!

... As a side question.... What kind of pot or crack do they load up in these Emos that even when someone tries to break free, they gotta run back and get another hit off the pipe? Perhaps it's time for interventions and a 12 step program.

"Hi, my name is ls7, and I am an Emoholic":D

Face

I agree Sean, the Krell gear I've heard would be a perfect match for the LSi series.

John, give it a rest already. What are you 12?

nooshinjohn

^^^still trying to be a Toys-R-Us kid.


I am out...

heiney9

Burn in and the Krell probably needs at minimum an hour of power up before it starts to sound its best. Any power amp that is heavily biased into class A need to be powered up so the tranny's can get to proper bias/operating temperature. At turn on bias current is applied and it takes awhile for the amp to become fully biased.

Plus a good demo takes 2 weeks minimum and really closer to a month to fully evaluate. So many hasty people on here want instant gratification in the first few hours or get rid of it. Give it some time man. Krell holds its value so keeping for a couple weeks isn;t going to hurt. If you bought it new from a dealer I would think at min. they would give you 30 days to audition.

bluecomet

Buy vintage gear. No burn in time required. You either like it or you don't.

Montoya

Great post big thumbs up this is how it should be done the senior peeps should respond like this more often.

Zero wrote: »

Wow, some of you fella's are really getting emotional over this whole affair. If someone enjoys an Onkyo pre / Emotiva Amp over a Krell integrated in their system, what is the big deal? I tell you what, if you are that bothered by it, I will lose some sleep for you.

To LS7;

Assuming that your post is not baiting in nature, I would encourage you to extend your patience on the matter. While I understand the expectation of encountering immediate satisfaction while slipping in an expensive component whose brand is highly acclaimed into the system, things do not always work that way. You are doing yourself a disservice by jumping to a conclusion without taking the time to give the component a true chance to work in your system. As the others suggest, if you have the opportunity to put time onto the unit, there is no harm in doing so. If in the end it doesn't work out, at least you can say that you gave it an honest effort.

Meanwhile, I'd suggest to cook it in if you still have the unit. If you have different cables on hand, experiment with them. Things to also bear in mind:

That Krell is far more resolute than your existing components. Krell's mantra is to be as transparent to the signal as possible. Some like the sound, while others don't. The thing is, the stuff you currently own retains a very prominent sound signature. Perhaps you are merely used to that type of sound, and is not used to a more 'accurate' presentation. Give it time. Maybe you will learn to like it... or maybe you won't.

Also, I wouldn't pay attention to this "the Krell being a bad match with the LSi's" deal. Thats flat out not true. It is an excellent match. While some may question the value proposition of such a pairing, there is no doubt that the LSi's respond well to Krell gear. The question however, is if you like what that combination has to offer.

If at the end of the day you end up preferring your existing components, for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. I've actually preferred cheap Harman Kardon receivers over MANY esteemed (and rather expensive) high end separates, for my own personal reasons.

Give it a shot, if you are in a position to do so. If not, then in the future, I'd suggest exercising a bit more patience. You never know, you could end up loving the very thing that you thought you'd hate.

Fongolio

bluecomet wrote: »

Buy vintage gear. No burn in time required. You either like it or you don't.

What he said.

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

... As a side question.... What kind of pot or crack do they load up in these Emos that even when someone tries to break free, they gotta run back and get another hit off the pipe? Perhaps it's time for interventions and a 12 step program.

"Hi, my name is ls7, and I am an Emoholic":D

Take it easy John. The thought crossed my mind too but I am trusting enough to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Just like the advice I gave to the OP I'm giving to you, be patient. If he's just trying to stir the pot then it will come out, if you he is sincere that will come out to. No sense in beating on a guy for stating his opinion or experience or inexperience for that matter.

nooshinjohn

My comments were meant to be a joke and not taken seriously. Please see them in that light.


Out.

hearingimpared

Montoya wrote: »

Great post big thumbs up this is how it should be done the senior peeps should respond like this more often.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Aside from John's post I don't see where any "senior peeps" have stated anything differently.

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

My comments were meant to be a joke and not taken seriously. Please see them in that light.


Out.

Sorry guy but it certainly didn't come off that way to me. Perhaps various smiley faces or something would have better served you.

nooshinjohn

I did have a bright green one at the very end....

ESavinon

Krell amps need at least 60-90 minutes to warm up. Once warm, they sound great.
Since yours is a new amp, Proper burn in time IS REQUIRED to sound their best.
Do you have the amp connected to a power conditioner?
Krell amps don't like to be connected to a power conditioner.

What type of cables are you using?

ls7z06

Wow. I am not really sure what I am supposed to be baiting here. I simply stated my experience. Like I said, maybe the unit was defective. I even had to turn the unit up to about 80% volume to even be able to hear at a reasonable level. I hear what you all say about break in. The rep I talked to also said I needed to give it 200 hours of break in too. I am not that patient I guess. Your Ferrari comparison does not work. That would be more like your new Ferrai cannot go over 30mph for the first 30,000 miles. Then it will go 200mph. hmmm. Hard to believe that.

I am really no more loyal to the Emotiva brand name than I am to anything else. I originally bought their products because they were attractively priced. Now I am also figuring out they work pretty darn well compared to more expensive equipment too. My emoette comment was meant in jest as I believe that is what people call folks that like their products. Sorry if that upset anybody. But....Jeez! Get a life. Don't get so emotional over the brand name of a freakin stereo amplifier!! And why are you jumping all over me for sharing my own experience??

I just have a hard time paying that much for a product and then it sucks when you turn the key. And no. You can't blame my wires, speakers, or anything else. They are the same for both amps. Even my teenage daughter said "dad, that sounds terrible. Hook your old amp back up." Would seem strange to me if my reply had been.... now dear, we are going to listen to this horrible thing for 2 or 3 weeks hoping it will improve with time.

So it's over and out for me for me on this thread. Sorry if I offended any nut jobs.

joeparaski

I agree with is7z06. If I spent over 3 grand on an amp it better not sound like **** on startup. I agree with the burn-in that it will improve to its full potential with time...but sound like crap out of the box!!!??...I'd be real pissed.

Having said all that, I think there must be something wrong with the amp. Perhaps if the dealer would give it a listen, he could confirm that.

Heck, he may as well buy a used Krell....he'll save money AND have a better sounding amp.

Joe