IsoClean Audio Grade Fuses

DarqueKnight

jinjuku wrote: »

If you are building a top shelf component all these years why the change now?

At least put something better than a run of the mill radio shack quality fuse.

I am not sure why Classe, Pass Labs, Conrad Johnson, Levinson, McIntosh would put a $0.02 fuse in. I would hope they wouldn't.

My Pass Labs and Parasound gear came with good quality ceramic case fuses. They were not the run of the mill Radio Shack quality fuse, therefore I know that Pass Labs and Parasound paid some attention to fuse quality.

Prior to premium grade capacitors and resistors becoming available in large quantities, some audio equipment manufacturers would avoid using them because demand could not keep up with supply. There have been several instances where I had to wait a few weeks for an audio grade fuse order to be filled because it was out of stock...and not just out of stock at one vendor, but out of stock at several vendors.

When it comes to parts, availability in sufficient production quantities is a valid concern.

jinjuku wrote: »

How recent is recent for audio grade fuses? When it comes to technology nothing ever stays the same:)

As far as I have been able to determine, Isoclean was the first company to come to market with audio grade fuses in 2004, then other companies, HiFI Tuning, Furutech, etc. followed.

jinjuku wrote: »

What I don't get is why someone would purchase a $25 fuse w/o first just jumping the fuse block.

Of course no, fuse is better than no fuse at all, but some type of fire protection device is required by most countries for high powered consumer electronic products.

I think that the ideal of audio grade fuses is to get the noise performance closer to the "no fuse" condition.

Why don't you conduct some "jumpered fuse" experiments with your gear and provide a report?

jinjuku

DarqueKnight wrote: »

My Pass Labs and Parasound gear came with good quality ceramic case fuses. They were not the run of the mill Radio Shack quality fuse, therefore I know that Pass Labs and Parasound paid some attention to fuse quality.

Prior to premium grade capacitors and resistors becoming available in large quantities, some audio equipment manufacturers would avoid using them because demand could not keep up with supply. There have been several instances where I had to wait a few weeks for an audio grade fuse order to be filled because it was out of stock...and not just out of stock at one vendor, but out of stock at several vendors.

When it comes to parts, availability in sufficient production quantities is a valid concern.



As far as I have been able to determine, Isoclean was the first company to come to market with audio grade fuses in 2004, then other companies, HiFI Tuning, Furutech, etc. followed.



Of course no, fuse is better than no fuse at all, but some type of fire protection device is required by most countries for high powered consumer electronic products.

I think that the ideal of audio grade fuses is to get the noise performance closer to the "no fuse" condition.

Why don't you conduct some "jumpered fuse" experiments with your gear and provide a report?

Let me get my 2.1 or 2.2 build done first. I have it narrowed down to four offerings and am leaning toward Jim Holtz Mission Statements. But a new design by Dennis Murphy just hit that is Transmission Line MTM. Choices, choices, choices

I have my Parasound HCA1000a that I will jumper the fuse with.

DarqueKnight

dorokusai wrote: »

So what degree do you need to engage in this conversation? It reads like your mocking him now.

No specific degree required. That wasn't my point. My light-hearted comment can't really be considered mocking since it does not come anywhere near the standard of "mocking" as practiced on this forum. The following examples demonstrate how "mocking" is properly done at Club Polk:

dorokusai wrote: »

When you and your boyfriend get something more "easy to look at" setup, we should make it a formal thread no? Kinda like the other Polkfests' maybe?

dorokusai wrote: »

Whatever douchebag and screw your "event". You'll get respect for Carverfest when Bob shovels my driveway. Let's go toe to toe in private and I'll give you a few years to catch up.

bikezappa wrote: »

I wonder what the collective IQ is on this forum.

bikezappa wrote: »

As I stated I can't explain EE circuit theory on this forum. What is your back ground? This is why there are colleges. Look up a resonant circuit. Do you people need to be spoon feed?

bikezappa wrote: »

What a collection of morons.

jinjuku

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Of course no, fuse is better than no fuse at all, but some type of fire protection device is required by most countries for high powered consumer electronic products.

I wasn't advocating the permanent removal of the fuse. Just a session of straight wire to see if you first heard a difference and if you did go ahead add a higher grade/quality fuse. Even then there would be no guarantees. Only that there was a difference with fuse inline.

Either way you need to run a fuse.

DarqueKnight

jinjuku wrote: »

I wasn't advocating the permanent removal of the fuse. Just a session of straight wire to see if you first heard a difference and if you did go ahead add a higher grade/quality fuse.

That makes sense...and could save a few bucks.:)

dorokusai

DarqueKnight wrote: »

No specific degree required. That wasn't my point. My light-hearted comment can't really be considered mocking since it does not come anywhere near the standard of "mocking" as practiced on this forum. The following examples demonstrate how "mocking" is properly done at Club Polk:

Oh, honey, I wasn't aware of your harbor of resentment. Please allow me to reflect and remove myself from your world of historical comments. I guess light hearted and sarcasm simply don't work here anymore. Happy listening!

Thank goodness I have such good sound, I'm surprised I can control myself.

quadzilla

jinjuku wrote: »

The flip side of that coin is to ask: So Yamaha, you have been putting in the most dirt cheap, get the job done, fuses in your high end receivers all these years?

I think the EE in you will agree that given todays production ability you can produce a really good $1 fuse vs the ones costing pennies that they had been using and reap any possible sonic improvements.

IMO a $25 fuse is simply getting bent over (I am including R&D).

No, it really isn't. To say that I'm now using a top-of-the-line whatever does not axiomatically dictate that I must have been using the cheapest pos I could find before. Most likely, it was just the same standard fuse that you find in the majority of electronics.

jinjuku

quadzilla wrote: »

No, it really isn't. To say that I'm now using a top-of-the-line whatever does not axiomatically dictate that I must have been using the cheapest pos I could find before. Most likely, it was just the same standard fuse that you find in the majority of electronics.

I didn't intimate pos. I intimated that it as you put it "Most likely, it was just the same standard fuse that you find in the majority of electronics". That is a fuse that, most likely, cost the manufacturer a few cents.

Knowing now that 'audio class' fuses are relatively new it's no big deal that that Yamaha is incorporating them now. I am glad the they are stepping up and potentially getting rid of one more weak link.

Remember I said dirt cheap, get the job done. No where did I mention pos. DK provided the actual answer to that honest question.

F1nut

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Oh my!:eek: Perhaps an introduction to BGB would be in order.

RT1

I don't think he's into trolls.

inspiredsports

jinjuku wrote: »

I wasn't advocating the permanent removal of the fuse. Just a session of straight wire to see if you first heard a difference and if you did go ahead add a higher grade/quality fuse. Even then there would be no guarantees. Only that there was a difference with fuse inline.

Either way you need to run a fuse.

It's good to see we are in basic agreement here. Fuses perform a valuable function and heaven forbid you have a power issue when you have your Parasound jumpered.

Where I can't agee is with your use of the word "soaking". Personally, in many cases I'm willing to pay whatever the the market will bear for many different goods and services (high line fuses included). I either buy or don't buy as I see fit, without labeling. If I want to spend money for what I perceive to be a benefit to me and someone makes a high percentage profit on the sale, so be it.

I'm curious; if you were willed an estate valued at $1,000,000, would you sell it to me for $1 (of pure profit by the way) and "soak" me? OR, would you try for the cool million and soak me 1,000,000 times?

jinjuku

inspiredsports wrote: »

It's good to see we are in basic agreement here. Fuses perform a valuable function and heaven forbid you have a power issue when you have your Parasound jumpered.

Where I can't agee is with your use of the word "soaking". Personally, in many cases I'm willing to pay whatever the the market will bear for many different goods and services (high line fuses included). I either buy or don't buy as I see fit, without labeling. If I want to spend money for what I perceive to be a benefit to me and someone makes a high percentage profit on the sale, so be it.

I'm curious; if you were willed an estate valued at $1,000,000, would you sell it to me for $1 (of pure profit by the way) and "soak" me? OR, would you try for the cool million and soak me 1,000,000 times?

Lets just say that said fuse would really have to provide some median appreciable difference. I am not confusing the end result with the part replaced and its subsequent cost.

If a can of green spray paint that cost $40 that I could spray the inside housing of my amp with made a positive difference in an A/B shootout I would probably buy it. My natural predilection is one of skepticism but I am willing to listen. Simply trying to get myself to a state of neutrality so I can keep any expectation bias out of the equation.

That being said I would still rather (and am) putting my $$ towards what I believe to be the biggest single difference in A.Q.: Speakers.

The Mission Statements are ~$800 in parts, the Dennis Murphy/Paul Kittinger Mass Loaded Transmission Line MTM ~$600 in parts are two that I am evaluating. I think these two would be revealing enough to show any changes up in the Parasound amp.

inspiredsports

jinjuku wrote: »

Lets just say that said fuse would really have to provide some median appreciable difference. I am not confusing the end result with the part replaced and its subsequent cost.

If a can of green spray paint that cost $40 that I could spray the inside housing of my amp with made a positive difference in an A/B shootout I would probably buy it. My natural predilection is one of skepticism but I am willing to listen. Simply trying to get myself to a state of neutrality so I can keep any expectation bias out of the equation.

That being said I would still rather (and am) putting my $$ towards what I believe to be the biggest single difference in A.Q.: Speakers.

The Mission Statements are ~$800 in parts, the Dennis Murphy/Paul Kittinger Mass Loaded Transmission Line MTM ~$600 in parts are two that I am evaluating. I think these two would be revealing enough to show any changes up in the Parasound amp.

I respect your opinion that you believe speakers will provide the best bang for your buck.

If I expressed I felt you would be "soaked" if you spent more than $30 (I just purchased a great sounding pair of bookshelf speakers for that amount from a seller on eBay), perhaps you would my statement.

One man's fuse is another man's speakers.

thsmith

Fuses Rule !

It had to be said

DarqueKnight

***Reference the Yamaha receiver ad attached to post #226 in this thread. (Link: Yamaha Ad Post)***


Email to Yamaha on 9/19/10:

"An ad for Aventage receivers on page 19 of the October 2010 Issue of Sound and Vision magazine states: "The optimum sound fuse: Thousands tested - one made the cut".

Did Yamaha engineers really test thousands of different fuses or is this just advertising exaggeration?

What brand/kind of fuses are used in the Aventage receivers?

Are the fuses replaceable by the user or must the receiver be sent for service if a fuse blows?"


Response from Yamaha on 9/22/10:

"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Yamaha Aventage series of A/V receivers.

The majority of internal components on the full line of Aventage receivers are hand selected and tested for audio purity. And these components - for the most part - are considered Yamaha proprietary.

If an internal component goes out within the receiver we would suggest service at that point.

The factory warranty on all Aventage receivers (purchased from an authorized Yamaha dealer) is three years from date of purchase."

=================================================

I called Yamaha's parts department and asked for a part number and description of the power line fuse for the RX-A3000 receiver. I was told that no parts information for the Aventage series receivers had not yet been loaded into their ordering systems and that service manuals were also not available yet.

inspiredsports

thsmith wrote: »

Fuses Rule !

It had to be said

Well, they are glass thingies with electricity inside, and sometimes they glow, well, er, . . . flash.

bikezappa

As I understand it the IsoClean Audio Grade Fuses are gold plated at each end and heat treated.

They appear to be fabricated with a heat treated wire wound in a tight coil inside a glass case.

How is this fuse different from a gold plated jumper cable?

Is it the very small amount of inductance at 60hz provided by the tight coil geometry?

DarqueKnight

I sent detailed inquiries to both Isoclean and HiFi Tuning and they refused to answer my questions pertaining to the fabrication and material properties of their fuses which result in improved sound performance. I was particularly interested in what made the fuses directional.

Yamaha Electronics also refused to discuss details pertaining to the fuses used in their new line of receivers citing proprietary concerns.

All I know at this point is that in some applications the audio grade fuses provide an audible improvement.

Quantitatively, I found that audio grade fuses display better noise spectrum characteristics than "ordinary" fuses and the noise performance was better depending on the fuse's orientation direction.

A private test and measurement company in Germany found that audio grade fuses exhibited lower resistance than ordinary fuses and that the resistance in one orientation was lower than the other.

megasat16

The end caps on each side can be made of different metals and plated in gold. The wire can be smelted for this purpose. The solder on each joints can be of different properties to make sure directional of electrons.

But WHY? Why desperately make a fuse DIRECTIONAL when you can use a good quality Audio Grade FUSE? I never have a doubt about a good quality Low Noise Level Fuse but making it directional is a marketing bogus.

It's like they created a solution to a problem they created. A BI-DIRECTIONAL fuse is never a problem before. By making Directional to a good quality fuse, it's like applying snake oil to a good fuse.

The increased in noise you measured for the reversed fuse directional seems to prove that they've desperately made the fuse directional so the electrons are colliding at a faster rate. It's like water is forced to flow through a spigot.

organ

I don't know much about Yamaha receivers, but after they started installing high end fuses, did they raise the price? Just curious. It's nice to see them using good quality parts in a receiver. Sorry for the derail.

I may give the fuse a try one day.

PolkMaster1

DarqueKnight wrote: »

No specific degree required. That wasn't my point. My light-hearted comment can't really be considered mocking since it does not come anywhere near the standard of "mocking" as practiced on this forum. The following examples demonstrate how "mocking" is properly done at Club Polk:

If you want to properly mock someone here at CP, I find this to be one of the best approaches:

After installing these high end fuses into my gear, I heard no difference in sound. But once I put on my Family Guy imprinted pajamas with Brian the Dog puking all over the place, I was completely blown away by the sound that was coming from my speakers.

But that is just me.

Seriously, nice writeup DK!

I asked a question in another forum about fuses making a difference (I realize now I should have asked in this forum). I am skeptical of trying out a $25 fuse to see if it would make a difference. I got a response taking me to this forum. Now after reading your findings, I will be tempted to try out a fuse
next year.

Have a wonderful new years everyone!

jinjuku

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

If you want to properly mock someone here at CP, I find this to be one of the best approaches:

After installing these high end fuses into my gear, I heard no difference in sound. But once I put on my Family Guy imprinted pajamas with Brian the Dog puking all over the place, I was completely blown away by the sound that was coming from my speakers.

But that is just me.

Seriously, nice writeup DK!

I asked a question in another forum about fuses making a difference (I realize now I should have asked in this forum). I am skeptical of trying out a $25 fuse to see if it would make a difference. I got a response taking me to this forum. Now after reading your findings, I will be tempted to try out a fuse
next year.

Have a wonderful new years everyone!

My Parasound would take $225 in fuses:eek: Yes, there are 6 fuses in the HCA 1000A.

inspiredsports

jinjuku wrote: »

My Parasound would take $225 in fuses:eek: Yes, there are 6 fuses in the HCA 1000A.

Hmmm . . . did someone, somewhere, somehow at sometime tell you that "hobby" is in any way, shape or form synonymous with "cheap"????

I didn't think so. :biggrin:

hearingimpared

inspiredsports wrote: »

Hmmm . . . did someone, somewhere, somehow at sometime tell you that "hobby" is in any way, shape or form synonymous with "cheap 'in the quest for sonic bliss'"????

I didn't think so. :biggrin:

Fixed!!!

inspiredsports

Perfect! :biggrin:

jinjuku

inspiredsports wrote: »

Hmmm . . . did someone, somewhere, somehow at sometime tell you that "hobby" is in any way, shape or form synonymous with "cheap"????

I didn't think so. :biggrin:

I know that... Almost have my Statements completed! Been hammering on them all day today. I should be to dry assembly tommorow and needed tweaks.

jinjuku

P.S. Just wanted the poster to know that there is most likely more than one fuse to replace.

DarqueKnight

inspiredsports wrote: »

Hmmm . . . did someone, somewhere, somehow at sometime tell you that "hobby" is in any way, shape or form synonymous with "cheap"????

I didn't think so. :biggrin:

I don't think so either.

My observation has been that hobbies have various levels from entry to advanced, and that as one becomes more interested, knowledgeable and advanced in a hobby, the more time and money is required to practice the hobby at an advanced level. This is a concept that some people seemingly cannot grasp when it comes to audio.

I know for a fact that some advanced stamp collectors will enthusiastically spend a fortune, in the tens of thousands of dollars, on one rare stamp, which is nothing more (to me) than a little scrap of paper with someone else's spit on it.

Is the advanced stamp collector who pays five figures for a stamp saying, or even implying, that all stamp collectors should follow suit? No. Of course not. Similarly, if an audiophile with an amplifier costing multiple thousands of dollars invests in a tweak that costs a couple of hundred dollars, that audiophile is not saying or even implying that all audiophiles should follow suit.

With any hobby, one should engage in activities and purchase items that are appropriate to one's level of interest, knowledge and disposable income.

Knucklehead

DarqueKnight wrote: »

With any hobby, one should engage in activities and purchase items that are appropriate to one's level of interest, knowledge and disposable income.

If thats the case...im seriously screwed. :biggrin:

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I don't think so either.

My observation has been that hobbies have various levels from entry to advanced, and that as one becomes more interested, knowledgeable and advanced in a hobby, the more time and money is required to practice the hobby at an advanced level. This is a concept that some people seemingly cannot grasp when it comes to audio.

I know for a fact that some advanced stamp collectors will enthusiastically spend a fortune, in the tens of thousands of dollars, on one rare stamp, which is nothing more (to me) than a little scrap of paper with someone else's spit on it.

Is the advanced stamp collector who pays five figures for a stamp saying, or even implying, that all stamp collectors should follow suit? No. Of course not. Similarly, if an audiophile with an amplifier costing multiple thousands of dollars invests in a tweak that costs a couple of hundred dollars, that audiophile is not saying or even implying that all audiophiles should follow suit.

With any hobby, one should engage in activities and purchase items that are appropriate to one's level of interest, knowledge and disposable income.

. . . and coveted by! My other hobby is cooking. I love it and would no more think about using one of those "set it and forget it" set of knives as using a cheap set of interconnects on my beloved (but shrinking :frown:) rig. S@#t it's nothing to spend $250 on a Wustoff Trident knife or better!

Even in this horrible financial condition, I wouldn't use dried basil leaves in my stuffed calamari recipe no matter what the extra buck it might cost for fresh basil. Hell I can sacrifice something else for that buck.

jinjuku

hearingimpared wrote: »

Even in this horrible financial condition, I wouldn't use dried basil leaves in my stuffed calamari recipe no matter what the extra buck it might cost for fresh basil. Hell I can sacrifice something else for that buck.

LOL, that is why I invested in an Aero Garden... I am consistently in fresh herbage.