New TT - I hate it

apc

Haven't had time to try - reading this thread is keeping me busy.









Actually, I settled on the old one and returned the new one. Since the sound was equal, I saw no point in investing in a replacement. That $$ could go toward something else. FWIW - the Technics does a fine job of playing my records. My original intention was to rip them to CDs anyway. Sounds like a new thread to me...

cfrizz

It doesn't matter what you "geeks" have listened to or the fact that you've tried both. One is NOT superior to the other, they both simply have a different sound! Some like it & some don't.

Both are dependent on the source, I prefer the nice clean clear source of the cd & the power of ss amps. Now if I have a poorly mastered cd then it will sound like crap as well no matter what equipment you play it on. The same holds true with records.:)

shack wrote: »

I have no problem with someone giving an opinion on how much they like what they have. However, if you have never heard a properly set up TT and tube rig it will be hard for you to say which is superior...TT & tubes or digital & SS. If you want to say you have no interest due to the complexity, cost or whatever...fine. If you state one or the other is superior you should at least have experience with both. Most of the "geeks" here have.

reeltrouble1

Cool, Tubes Rule.

The Lunatic is in the Hall.

RT1

hearingimpared

Well after all is said and done, I like vinyl with all it's shortcomings better than CDs with all its shortcomings so that IMHO is a statement that vinyl is better.

I use a high end SS preamp which I think sounds wonderful. If I had to change anything in the rig it would be to do the hybrid tubes and SS thing. So in that regard Cath, I totally agree with you tubes or SS state isn't better than the other, they are different and when combined properly can make for a very natural tone production of instruments and vocals.

mhardy6647

Haven't had time to try - reading this thread is keeping me busy.

Aye... reading about hi-fi is sort of like reading about sex.

cfrizz

Been listening to your DSOTM again huh Big Ted?:D

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Cool, Tubes Rule.

The Lunatic is in the Hall.

RT1

heiney9

Digital rulez! Why because many of the instruments sound more realistic. My biggest complaint with tube and vinyl is the roll off/contouring of the highs. I have a friend who is a very talented drummer and I listen to him play unmic'd. I especially listen to the tone, timbre and decay of the several different cymbals including the hi hat and ride and digital reproduction is the only medium that gets it so close to being right.

I have heard very good tube rigs and I have heard several very high end TT rigs and in general this is a common shortcoming, sometimes is like a wart other times it's less so. There is a crispness, attack and immediacy that digital provides that analog doesn't and both can suck equally or be equally excellent just depending on how it was recorded and mastered. That is the sound I prefer. Not ever saying what I prefer is what everyone prefers but I'm trying to give those who like to discuss what my POV is, rather than a short 5 word answer.

Rock on and enjoy the music

H9

P.s. all the analog junkies are going to chime in and say the highs aren't rolled off or muted on my system. Well your analog doesn't do it like digital does otherwise you'd be using digital.

madmax

Real life doesn't contain jitter.

5 words exactly.
madmax

heiney9

madmax wrote: »

Real life doesn't contain jitter.

5 words exactly.
madmax

I doesn't contain wow and flutter either, or pops and clicks.

maxmad

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Digital rulez! Why because many of the instruments sound more realistic. My biggest complaint with tube and vinyl is the roll off/contouring of the highs. I have a friend who is a very talented drummer and I listen to him play unmic'd. I especially listen to the tone, timbre and decay of the several different cymbals including the hi hat and ride and digital reproduction is the only medium that gets it so close to being right.

I have heard very good tube rigs and I have heard several very high end TT rigs and in general this is a common shortcoming, sometimes is like a wart other times it's less so. There is a crispness, attack and immediacy that digital provides that analog doesn't and both can suck equally or be equally excellent just depending on how it was recorded and mastered. That is the sound I prefer. Not ever saying what I prefer is what everyone prefers but I'm trying to give those who like to discuss what my POV is, rather than a short 5 word answer.

Rock on and enjoy the music

H9

P.s. all the analog junkies are going to chime in and say the highs aren't rolled off or muted on my system. Well your analog doesn't do it like digital does otherwise you'd be using digital.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA H9 that is what is known as digital glare!!!:D

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

I doesn't contain wow and flutter either, or pops and clicks.

maxmad

Obviously you haven't had the pleasure of speaking to someone on the phone using Comcast's internet phone service. . . life does contain WOW, FLUTTER, TICKS, & POPS!!!:D

heiney9

hearingimpared wrote: »

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA H9 that is what is known as digital glare!!!:D

Apparentlly it's there in real life too! With a proper DAC which you (and I do too) seem to have, jitter and the awful digital glare can be effectively eliminated unless the dumbass who mastered it to cd didn't know or most likely care about what they were doing Nothing but analog can help a poor mastering process

madmax

Digital/SS can do it to some degree. Its way too expensive and complicated though.
madmax

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Apparentlly it's there in real life too! With a proper DAC which you (and I do too) seem to have, jitter and the awful digital glare can be effectively eliminated unless the dumbass who mastered it to cd didn't know or most likely care about what they were doing

This is true to a degree, I also use the Marigo 3D stabilizer mat which when you hear a CD with and without it, it is like night and day. It's funny, you would think that there would be less tweaking with a digital front end but not so. My next project is to Dynamat the Oppo and Timbre DAC.

cmy330go

cfrizz wrote: »

Wrong, I've always had a turntable, my current one is 25 yrs old, I put on my old Jesus Christ Superstar album last year since, that was the only version I had at the time.

I take good care of my records & gear, and what I got back sent me online immediately to order it on a cd!

Once you get use to the clean, clear, sound & small package that will probably outlive you & still sound just as good no matter how many years you have them & play them, there is no going back!.....

cfrizz wrote: »

Good for you CMY, but it doesn't change the facts that you tubers & vinyl users are a very small minority. And all the ranting and raving how it is so superior is just one opinion. It's different, not necessarily better just different.....

So which is it? Is CD better, or just different?:rolleyes:

reeltrouble1

cfrizz wrote: »

Been listening to your DSOTM again huh Big Ted?:D

Waaaaaaaaaa, you know it Cat.:D

Club Polk rocks because of most of the viewpoints.

I am blessed to enjoy both formats without really picking one, its also a curse as far as dough but hey I really am having so much fun with audio. I suspect many here enjoy both digital and vinyl as long as it sounds good, we have alot of music lovers and I still count myself as one. I have always enjoyed listening to different gear and speakers and formats, I guess its just different for me than some, I never really cared that I may have lost a few thousand over a lifetime on changing gear, I am really getting happy with the rigs, just jonesin now for some Avantgarde Horns and some BAT VK-150 SE monoblocks, in Khomenko I trust along with Antony at MF, still so many other companies to enjoy, I would not mind having that flagship Meridian player or any of the new Cary gear. And of course the Manley Stingray will get you hot over their quality gear.

I had to buy a TV for the new HT room, now that's money wasted for me but its hard to watch a movie without a picture.

RT1

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I had to buy a TV for the new HT room, now that's money wasted for me but its hard to watch a movie without a picture.

RT1

ROTFLAMO!!!


I really do have to be honest here, if it sounds good I like it. . . sometimes LPs sound horrible; now take that and then add some hiss and crackle and ticks and pops and I get pure frustration and want to just hang it up and go all digital. However when I play the good sounding LPs I then remember why I love the analog sooooo much. Just tonight I played a sealed copy of a Japanese pressing of Yes, "Fragile" that I've had for 20+ years. Immediate tape hiss was prevelant, then side one turned out to be recorded hot so the highs were a bit distorted, it sounded a bit like mistracking, but side two was perfect. The thing is that the music was so good that I heard past the flaws and enjoyed the music. I played the same album except this time the CD, great music but I didn't feel the same emotion I felt with the LP. Go figure!

cfrizz

:rolleyes: You haven't been paying attention. Both sources are different. It is up to each individual to determine for themselves which they like BETTER.

For me it is SS electronics & digital sources. I like those better. For Joe it is the other way around. And that is perfectly all right. Both of us enjoy our music in the way that we prefer.

cmy330go wrote: »

So which is it? Is CD better, or just different?:rolleyes:

cfrizz

If the music is still the same music then I don't understand why you would get all emotional over one & not the other.

However, You can certainly end up with a bad cd that has been copied from a copy, that was copied from a copy of a copy & sounds like it!:eek:

You might not be able to tell the difference with a HTIAB, but you can certainly tell with decent equipment!

I have had to toss or give away some of those. That is why I if I decide to get a CD of an old group I like, I will first look to see if they have a remastered version of it.

It seems that a good many didn't care how their music was produced so long as it got out into the masses & made them money.

One group however, who has put out top notch cds from the beginning is The Eagles!

hearingimpared wrote: »

I really do have to be honest here, if it sounds good I like it. . . sometimes LPs sound horrible; now take that and then add some hiss and crackle and ticks and pops and I get pure frustration and want to just hang it up and go all digital. However when I play the good sounding LPs I then remember why I love the analog sooooo much. Just tonight I played a sealed copy of a Japanese pressing of Yes, "Fragile" that I've had for 20+ years. Immediate tape hiss was prevelant, then side one turned out to be recorded hot so the highs were a bit distorted, it sounded a bit like mistracking, but side two was perfect. The thing is that the music was so good that I heard past the flaws and enjoyed the music. I played the same album except this time the CD, great music but I didn't feel the same emotion I felt with the LP. Go figure!

hearingimpared

cfrizz wrote: »

If the music is still the same music then I don't understand why you would get all emotional over one & not the other.

Cathy this, right here, is where you and I really disagree. I find good analog recordings very involving. I really get lost in the music. Phyllisann has walked in and out of the music room several times during my listening sessions (I listen with my eyes closed) and I've never known she was there. She actually has startled me a few times by touching me.

Anyhow I don't get that same emotional lift or let down with the same recording on CD. It just sounds flat to me. The image is flat and the music has no pizazzz. To me it's like drinking a fresh cold bottle of Coca-Cola vs. a warm flat bottle.

That's just me, but that is how analog music affects me. There are SACDs however that I get lost in. They have more "life" than redbook CDs.

Again as you said, it's different for all of us and so far analog is my preference for listening sessions especially long ones.

cmy330go

cfrizz wrote: »

Wrong, I've always had a turntable, my current one is 25 yrs old, I put on my old Jesus Christ Superstar album last year since, that was the only version I had at the time.

I take good care of my records & gear, and what I got back sent me online immediately to order it on a cd!

Once you get use to the clean, clear, sound & small package that will probably outlive you & still sound just as good no matter how many years you have them & play them, there is no going back!

cfrizz wrote: »

One group however, who has put out top notch cds from the beginning is The Eagles!

It's comments like this Cathy that have me convinced you don't have an accurate view of vinyl.

You talk about the "clean, clear sound" of CD in comparison to vinyl. Yet if your vinyl was in good shape it too would be clean, and clear. Arguably clearer.

Now about the Eagles......I have a number of their albums on both formats, and not a single one sounds anywhere near as good on CD. In fact it was a direct comparison of their Greatest Hits album that sold me on a TT in the first place. When I first was curious about vinyl I did a blind A-B of this album with at least 15 people, and not a single one picked the CD. No joke.

Now I'm not claiming there aren't some good sounding Cd's, or that I always choose vinyl over CD. But the VAST majority of the time when I've done a direct comparison between the two formats....vinyl comes out the clear winner.

OK...I had more to say, but I'm just too dang tired. Maybe later.

Dave

madmax

cfrizz wrote: »

If the music is still the same music then I don't understand why you would get all emotional over one & not the other.

And here is the proof you have not listened to a really good vinyl/tube setup. (not giving you a hard time or anything).

Awhile back I replaced my tube preamp with a really good SS one. As I sat there listening I was totally uninvolved staring off into the distance. After a few minutes I realized this sound meant nothing to me so I started analyzing what was going on. Does it sound worse than it did? No, it was actually a little cleaner sounding. Was anything missing? Not that I could detect. Was the tonal balance different in some way? Certainly didn't hear anything different.

So what was going on? Still don't know. It sounded as good as ever. Maybe I just knew there were no tubes there? Not likely, I was pretty excited about the preamp. It was quite classy looking and VERY solidly built. I really expected it to perform flawlessly, which it did except for this.

No emotion. It was clear.
madmax

cfrizz

That tells me you prefer the muddiness & lack of clarity that you get with vinyl. To each their own.:)

madmax

cfrizz wrote: »

That tells me you prefer the muddiness & lack of clarity that you get with vinyl. To each their own.:)

Such a shame thats all you got out of that. I'm not done yet though.

reeltrouble1

Mother will they drop the bomb..........Mother will they try to break my......

Sand can be a great thing, especially at the beach.

RT1

marly421

so just give it up already. Wasting $300 or a $1000 an a turntable is like trying to remarry or ex wife or husband...did that already, stupid to try again.

And 99% of the people are not able to hear the difference of a $90 DVD/CD player and a $1000 one either. Believe baby's believe.

shack

marly421 wrote: »

so just give it up already. Wasting $300 or a $1000 an a turntable is like trying to remarry or ex wife or husband...did that already, stupid to try again.

And 99% of the people are not able to hear the difference of a $90 DVD/CD player and a $1000 one either. Believe baby's believe.

Ted, it appears we have uncovered another Anti HI-FI Audio Insurgent...

snow

marly421 wrote: »

so just give it up already. Wasting $300 or a $1000 an a turntable is like trying to remarry or ex wife or husband...did that already, stupid to try again.

And 99% of the people are not able to hear the difference of a $90 DVD/CD player and a $1000 one either. Believe baby's believe.

Uhoh lmaoooo. So what your saying is I had sex once and it didnt meet my expectations, so now I will join the the ranks of the celibate and abstain forever? Wow that would be a pretty boring way to live life.

I remember computers when they first came out and a little while later when people started using them at home. They were big bulky and slow as hell with lots of problems. I hated them and swore I would never get one. Well...... Im glad i changed my mind.

99% of the people out there arent audiophiles either, Due partly to the fact that 99% of the people have never heard a $1000.00 cd player period.

REGARDS SNOW

cfrizz

I'm trying Chuck, but you keep contradicting yourself.
Everything was the same but it was too clear????

The best I think I can understand what you are saying is to compare it to the difference between soft dome tweeters & metal tweeters. Supposedly metal domes offer the clearest sound to be had. That may be true, but within an hour I have a headache because alot of what comes through to me is overly sharp & sibilant.

As far as I can tell, soft domes give me the same clarity without giving me a headache, no sibilance & I can listen all day long.

madmax wrote: »

Such a shame thats all you got out of that. I'm not done yet though.

madmax

cfrizz wrote: »

I'm trying Chuck, but you keep contradicting yourself.
Everything was the same but it was too clear????

The best I think I can understand what you are saying is to compare it to the difference between soft dome tweeters & metal tweeters. Supposedly metal domes offer the clearest sound to be had. That may be true, but within an hour I have a headache because alot of what comes through to me is overly sharp & sibilant.

As far as I can tell, soft domes give me the same clarity without giving me a headache, no sibilance & I can listen all day long.

Yep, you got it. And no, I didn't say it was too clear, just that it may have sounded a little cleaner in some way although I was just grasping at straws... In any case it just wasn't doing it and everything I could detect seemed to come across the same. Except the emotion of the music of course.

madmax