New TT - I hate it

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited July 2007
    oops, stop the presses.... thanks to a thread at audioasylum, I have seen the sine qua non of turntables.
    http://www.woutergeense.nl/en/work/

    see if the image link is transportable:
    Picture%203_448x289.shkl.jpg
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited July 2007
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    oops, stop the presses.... thanks to a thread at audioasylum, I have seen the sine qua non of turntables.
    http://www.woutergeense.nl/en/work/

    see if the image link is transportable:
    Picture%203_448x289.shkl.jpg

    WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

    I wonder how high the noise floor is when that little sucker is revving at 17,000 rpm.
    HT
    Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600

    2 CH
    Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2007
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    oops, stop the presses.... thanks to a thread at audioasylum, I have seen the sine qua non of turntables.
    http://www.woutergeense.nl/en/work/

    see if the image link is transportable:
    Picture%203_448x289.shkl.jpg

    That's friggin hilarious!!!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2007
    apc wrote: »
    Joe,

    Here's the tank (hopefully you can see the channels in the rubber mat):
    IMG_3278-1.jpg

    Here's the mat removed (the factory platter):
    IMG_3292.jpg


    I am wide open to suggestions.

    Just for **** and giggles, take a record that is somewhat one you just really don't care about. Listen to it with the ring mat and the clamp. Then listen to it without the mat, coupled directly to the platter. I'm willing to bet that without the mat it sounds better. The only problem with my thinking here is that the platter may act like a friggin bell but you won't know until you try. What I am trying to achieve here is that with the record firmly coupled to just the platter, the stylus energy and airborne vibrations are couple to the platter and dampened. However if the platter is a resonance machine it will make the noise floor higher.

    Make sure the platter is scrupulously clean before putting the record directly on it. Straight Windex should work there. Please let me know how you make out.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited July 2007
    The little gas engine would really get rid of the pop and hiss sounds or just cover it up.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • apc
    apc Posts: 779
    edited July 2007
    Thanks Joe. I'll keep messing with it as time allows.
    Husband, Father, Son, Brother, Friend.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2007
    :D Darla, you spend a great deal of time working regular hours & doing OVERTIME. When you come home, I would think you would want to turn on the tunes & enjoy. Not come home, pull out the record, dust off the record, make sure everything is aligned, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Just to hear a whole lot of hiss, snap, crackle & pop!:eek: :rolleyes:

    Your life is too busy & hectic for all that crap!:D

    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    [SIZE=-3]This thread is scaring me.[/SIZE]
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2007
    Reading through this whole thread of nonsense I have to say something here. Records don't hiss... :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited July 2007
    Darla,

    Its really not difficult. The tones you get to hear with vinyl are well worth setting up a table.

    RT1
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited July 2007
    The number of people here that are willing to spend significant time and money building a good system just to then get lazy and feed it a weak format amazes me.

    Kinda like putting ethanol in a Ferrari if you ask me.

    I'm also curios why so many are complaining about the up-keep of vinyl. I'm betting a number of you have never had first hand experience and therefore are just blowing smoke.... The rest of you complainers must have had your systems in the middle of a dirt road in order for there to be that much dusting and cleaning required.:rolleyes:

    For those interested in vinyl.....Go for it! Give it an honest try! I'm sure most will find it very rewarding.
    HT
    Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600

    2 CH
    Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited July 2007
    What is the simplest way to clean a record before playing it?

    When I posted this question previously, I got a lot of "I use a hand-made solution that is three parts isopropyl alcohol, one part tears of a pheonix, and one part pixie dust. Apply three times with superfine mister, then apply three coats of board wax, used handtool to remove excess wax, squeagee to remove excess solution, blow dry, rinse and repeat, then get ready to do some vacuuming."

    I was hoping for "use warm water, dry with a soft cloth" or something like that.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited July 2007
    Apc -- Keep with it! Strider and I exchanged quite a bit of correspondence in regard to the Pro-Ject's "instructions". They're flat out wrong in some places. Most notably the direction in which to turn the counter-weight and where to loop the anti-skating weight on the prong. "Plug and play" my arse.

    Since working through these issues, the TT has been a joy to use. I actually like the ritual of preparing/cleaning an album.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • mulveling
    mulveling Posts: 505
    edited July 2007
    cmy330go wrote: »
    For those interested in vinyl.....Go for it! Give it an honest try! I'm sure most will find it very rewarding.
    Definitely. I was curious for a long time. I'd experienced how good it was on a friend's setup, but wondered if I could replicate that in a system of my own. When I finally got around to it this spring, it wasn't cheap. It also required some research and the assistance of a local audio shop - however in the end it was well worth it all and then some! Now that I've gone vinyl there's no going back to CD for me - use of the silver discs is now strictly limited to the car and office.

    As for the hassle - once you've got a good base of vinyl cleaned via a machine (3 minutes per disc max), the playback ritual is simple (automatic really), and far less annoying that swapping cables or many of the other tweaks we audiophile frequently do. Honestly I find the ritual relaxing and enjoyable, since unlike the other tweaks you KNOW it will yield great results and it contributes to your treasured vinyl lasting a long long time.
    Tannoy Dimension TD10, SOTA Star Sapphire, Heathkit W4A's, McIntosh MC2100, Eddie-Current Zana Deux, Singlepower SDS, Sennheiser HD650, Audio-Technica L3000, Sony Qualia 010
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited July 2007
    Maybe it's something about people continually using the word "ritual" in regards to cleaning that has me a bit skeptical.

    Nothing "ritualistic" ever seems to turn out well. . .
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2007
    AndyGwis wrote: »
    Maybe it's something about people continually using the word "ritual" in regards to cleaning that has me a bit skeptical.

    Nothing "ritualistic" ever seems to turn out well. . .

    It's like sex. . . a long slow foreplay "ritual" leads to a long incredible ****!!! Same thing with vinyl.:D :D:D
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2007
    Wrong, I've always had a turntable, my current one is 25 yrs old, I put on my old Jesus Christ Superstar album last year since, that was the only version I had at the time.

    I take good care of my records & gear, and what I got back sent me online immediately to order it on a cd!

    Once you get use to the clean, clear, sound & small package that will probably outlive you & still sound just as good no matter how many years you have them & play them, there is no going back!

    That (in your eyes) weak format was one technology that EVERYONE took to like ducks to water. All the newer formats SACD/DVDA have never gained a foothold.

    Just like tubes, records are for you people who just can't help tweeking & playing around with your systems looking for the next best sound.

    Have at it, the rest of the world likes being modern & having time to do other stuff while they enjoy the music.:D

    cmy330go wrote: »
    The number of people here that are willing to spend significant time and money building a good system just to then get lazy and feed it a weak format amazes me.

    Kinda like putting ethanol in a Ferrari if you ask me.

    I'm also curios why so many are complaining about the up-keep of vinyl. I'm betting a number of you have never had first hand experience and therefore are just blowing smoke.... The rest of you complainers must have had your systems in the middle of a dirt road in order for there to be that much dusting and cleaning required.:rolleyes:

    For those interested in vinyl.....Go for it! Give it an honest try! I'm sure most will find it very rewarding.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited July 2007
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    It's like sex. . . a long slow foreplay "ritual" leads to a long incredible ****!!! Same thing with vinyl.:D :D:D

    You're so full of ****!!! LOL!! Get Phyllisann on here to respond to your comment. I heard her mention something about your sex stamina being that of a "Minutman" !!!! :D:D:D See ya on Sunday for a CD vs Vinyl showdown.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2007
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    You're so full of ****!!! LOL!! Get Phyllisann on here to respond to your comment. I heard her mention something about your sex stamina being that of a "Minutman" !!!! :D:D:D See ya on Sunday for a CD vs Vinyl showdown.

    No, no, no you overheard her telling me what Maria had said to her when they were on the phone after you got back from the casino!!!!
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    That (in your eyes) weak format was one technology that EVERYONE took to like ducks to water. All the newer formats SACD/DVDA have never gained a foothold.

    Just like tubes, records are for you people who just can't help tweeking & playing around with your systems looking for the next best sound.


    Transistors: The promise of better quality, lower cost and portability... They didn't mention the crappy sound that goes with them.

    Once people got used to transistors the next step didn't seem so drastic.

    CD: Perfect sound forever... They didn't mention that by perfect they meant perfectly quiet crappy sound.

    These technologies are ok for what they are (a way for the average mass market consumer to obtain semi-reasonable sound) but are a far cry away from the trek to perfection.

    The next step has obviously been MP3's. Lets face it, people are already listening to transistors, CD's don't sound much better anyway, might as well be super portable.

    Thankfully turntable and record sales are up and the future is bright again.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited July 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    That (in your eyes) weak format was one technology that EVERYONE took to like ducks to water.

    This is not true....many people (including myself) while liking the simplicity of the format...HATED...the sound of the early CDs. Very compressed and simply poorly recorded. The format has gotten much better (in many ways) but some of the mastering techniques used by todays recording engineers make some CDs sound bad still(bloated bass, ear piercing treble, etc...). I actually prefer the ease of the CD and in fact all my current CDPs in use are changers for the added ease of listening. I also have several hundred LPs and a pretty good TT setup and continue to buy LPs (used). Unless the vinyl is in terrible shape, a cleaning with a good vacuum machine...once...(not before every listen) gets rid of 99% of the clicks and pops and once the music starts you never hear what few are still there. It is still a PIA to only have 20-30 min. of music before you have to change, but if the music is good that is not too much of an issue. BTW...I still have some music recorded on high quality cassettes that I listen to from time to time.

    I am NOT a tweeker, and I do not have a pre LP ritual other than to put on the LP, turn on the table and a quick sweep with the brush and sit down to listen. No cleaning, no anti-static wand...just put it on and play. There is a difference in the SQ of some of the early CDs and and the LP's they replaced which makes me sometimes listen to the LP over the CD. For the most part I have very few duplicates. I probably have more CD vs CD duplicates where I have replaced a CD with a remastered copy or a SACD.

    I listen 75% to CDs, 24% to LPs and 1% to other formats. I'm good to go with all of them (except MP3). I may break down an buy an iPod one of these days....but I doubt it.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2007
    Good enough Shack. But again, those of us on this board are not your typical every day audio listener. Most would NEVER consider spending what we have spent on our systems.

    And there is still again a smaller subset on here that go even further with their listening habits. Whether it's because they share their hearing sensitivity with German Shepherds or just like being different who knows.

    I said the same thing about an MP3 player, but I now have one with 650 songs on it. It saved my life big time flying down & back from DC!

    It will sit on top of one of my speakers until the next time I go traveling.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,337
    edited July 2007
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Frankly, I'd buy used and I'd buy local. Avoid eBAY, since most folks don't know how to pack a tt for shipping, and you're unlikely to find a bargain from someone who does know what he/she is doing.

    The big problem with buying used is wear and tear that you'll only know about too late.

    Given your interest and budget, I'd recommend a Technics. Belt or DD, according to your taste, cost, and availability. JVC and Denon made some excellent midlevel tt's but they are not common and typically not cheap.

    Better still -- if you can find a nice example -- would be a Philips GA-212 or GA-312, a Thorens (e.g., TD-165 or TD-166), or an AR-XA.

    Do you live in New England? If so, check the swap piles at your town dump!
    Here are a couple of my dump finds; both in fine working order as found (I installed a new Shure M97xe cartridge on the Pioneer). These will both play music and track well enough not to be vinyl-eaters.

    I'm with you 100% on this Mark!

    Shop around local for a decent used turntable. You may need to buy a cartridge, there are a lot of decent cartridges for $150 and less. Learn how to set up the table and clean a few LPs and give it a go.

    Vinyl is not for everyone. Cathy is right that it can be a hassle. Others rather enjoy the prep of cleaning an LP. RT is right, it doesn't take a whole lot of learning to get up and running. Enjoy vinyl for what it is. It's different than CDs and both formats have their limitations. This is a hobby, invest what you can in time and money.
    Carl

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2007
    schwarcw wrote: »
    I'm with you 100% on this Mark!

    Shop around local for a decent used turntable. You may need to buy a cartridge, there are a lot of decent cartridges for $150 and less. Learn how to set up the table and clean a few LPs and give it a go.

    Vinyl is not for everyone. Cathy is right that it can be a hassle. Others rather enjoy the prep of cleaning an LP. RT is right, it doesn't take a whole lot of learning to get up and running. Enjoy vinyl for what it is. It's different than CDs and both formats have their limitations. This is a hobby, invest what you can in time and money.

    Carl I can use your skills as a negotiator to help me purchase my new cartridge. You have a calming gift of pursuasion.:)
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited July 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Wrong, I've always had a turntable, my current one is 25 yrs old, I put on my old Jesus Christ Superstar album last year since, that was the only version I had at the time.

    So about 1982? Not exactly the era of top notch turntables. Not to say yours in junk, but let's face it...most around that time were.
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Once you get use to the clean, clear, sound & small package that will probably outlive you & still sound just as good no matter how many years you have them & play them, there is no going back!

    I don't know about you, but many of the records I own have already outlived me, and they still sound great.
    cfrizz wrote: »
    That (in your eyes) weak format was one technology that EVERYONE took to like ducks to water. All the newer formats SACD/DVDA have never gained a foothold.

    So what???? Most of those same people have taken to MP3s.:rolleyes: Don't get me wrong, MP3 has it's place, but that place is not in my system.
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Just like tubes, records are for you people who just can't help tweeking & playing around with your systems looking for the next best sound.

    For the record, my "tweeking & playing around" has been at a minimum since the introduction of vinyl and tubes. In fact the majority of my tweaking this past year was on the digital front.
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Have at it, the rest of the world likes being modern & having time to do other stuff while they enjoy the music.:D

    I enjoy my music a great deal. All with a minimum of time spent cleaning, tweaking, etc.... It's just that I find the music much more enjoyable in analog form.
    HT
    Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600

    2 CH
    Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2007
    Good for you CMY, but it doesn't change the facts that you tubers & vinyl users are a very small minority. And all the ranting and raving how it is so superior is just one opinion. It's different, not necessarily better just different.

    If you can respect that the majority of us listening to cd's & ss equipment, we will respect that you prefer tubes & vinyl.

    But I will always give a counter opinion when people start talking about tubes & vinyl being superior.

    Actually, Carl said it the best with his last paragraph. Thanks Carl!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    But I will always give a counter opinion when people start talking about tubes & vinyl being superior.


    We will eventually wear you down to the point of giving it a try. :D
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited July 2007
    Tubes Rule.

    RT1
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited July 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    But I will always give a counter opinion when people start talking about tubes & vinyl being superior.

    I have no problem with someone giving an opinion on how much they like what they have. However, if you have never heard a properly set up TT and tube rig it will be hard for you to say which is superior...TT & tubes or digital & SS. If you want to say you have no interest due to the complexity, cost or whatever...fine. If you state one or the other is superior you should at least have experience with both. Most of the "geeks" here have. ;)
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Fireman32
    Fireman32 Posts: 4,845
    edited July 2007
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    Tubes Rule.

    RT1

    +1

    I started out with SS and then dove into the world fo tubes and im not looking back.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited July 2007
    OK , ShackDaddy Tubes and some Vinyl and Geeks Rule.......

    waaaaaaaaa, SS pre's and sources can sound pretty good, my new MF player can output either, the tubed output just sounds a bit fatter or in young person talk phatter I am not sure how to say fat in Geek Talk, probably just f-a-t. I still like a nice dynamic ss amplifier, but I am open to change on this as well. The tubed amplifier output on my Manley is oh so nice, I just need some Avantgarde speakers to run with it.

    So I wonder if apc has his table running yet???

    RT1
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