22 Dead at VT

jakelm

More info....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070417vtech-shootings,1,176236.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

bknauss

BaggedLancer wrote: »

I'm waiting to hear whether the two 9mm guns he used were obtained legally or illegally. I'm willing to bet they were obtained illegally in which case people can bring up as much crap as they want about gun control but that's not gonna stop people from getting them illegally.

Supposedly (and yes... this is not backed up with super duper hard evidence), it was purchased legally. Some good info on this @#$@#$@#%****#$@# is starting to come out now. Tonight's news should be interesting.

shack

We are learning that there were some true heros in this tragedy...

Holocaust survivor saved students' lives
By LAURIE COPANS
Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM (AP) -- The e-mails from grateful students arrived soon after Liviu Librescu was shot to death, telling how the Holocaust survivor barricaded the doorway of his Virginia Tech classroom and saved their lives at the cost of his own.

Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer who survived the **** killings and later escaped from Communist Romania, was one of several foreign victims of Monday's shootings, which coincided with Israel's Holocaust remembrance day.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Librescu's son, Joe Librescu, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from his home outside Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

BaggedLancer

jakelm wrote: »

Well being the facts are that the serial numbers were scratched off. I would say illegally. But funny thing is he kept reciepts for the guns... I am lost for words.

I agree, lost for words is a good way to put it.

Why purchase them legally then scratch off the serials? Makes no sense.

madmax

If you used and ditched the weapon it could not be traced back to you if the #'s were removed. That is the only reason I can think to remove them.
madmax

pmckeealaska

This is the way it will play out on both sides of the political fence. The liberal fanatics will decry our gun-crazed culture and push for even more nonsensical gun laws, and the right wing bible thumping fanatics will talk about the threat of immigrants. The anticipation of this is already making me ill.

Demiurge

pmckeealaska wrote: »

This is the way it will play out on both sides of the political fence. The liberal fanatics will decry our gun-crazed culture and push for even more nonsensical gun laws, and the right wing bible thumping fanatics will talk about the threat of immigrants. The anticipation of this is already making me ill.

Uh, he came here when he was 8. Who the hell is going to argue that? All I have heard about is the gun control crap and it started right off the bat.

It also seems this **** bag didn't like this country much. I must ask, since he did immigrate here as a child, why the **** didn't he pack his **** and leave?

Danny Tse

Demiurge wrote: »

It also seems this **** bag didn't like this country much.

I don't see anything that says he didn't like the country. It's still too early to say what his motives are.

DarqueKnight

Associated Press 4-17-07


BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was described Tuesday as a sullen loner whose creative writing in English class was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho Seung-****, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.

Police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set him off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.

Classmates said that on the first day of an introduction to British literature class last year, the 30 or so English students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

The professor looked at the sign-in sheet and, where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't real out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

pmckeealaska

Who is going to argue with his immigrant status? Just wait, someone of the ilk of a Hannity, Limbaugh, or Savage will bring it up....guaranteed.

Demiurge

Danny Tse wrote: »

I don't see anything that says he didn't like the country. It's still too early to say what his motives are.

Not today it isn't, maybe yesterday, but plenty has come out.

Link to ABC article

"The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. Reporters said that Cho killed himself with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms."

Ismail [Ishmael] was the son of Abraham [Ibrahim].

More on Ismail Ax -- Link to Islamicity & Ibrahim

The note mentions, "charlatans", -- fake people, "rich kids," a gross hatred for capatalism, Christianity, idolatry, and sexual promescuity....

So in the end, it has nothing to do with where he was from, our society as a whole, but merely what the hell was loose in this guy's head.

All I'm pointing out is that if he had a problem with our way out life he was free to GTFO. There was no reason for this animal to kill 33 people including himself. That's the answer.

We're not going to find a greater meaning in it all other than that he was one sick puppy. If he had an ideological tint that went towards Islam, well -- that's interesting considering all that's going on in the world today....

Demiurge

pmckeealaska wrote: »

Who is going to argue with his immigrant status? Just wait, someone of the ilk of a Hannity, Limbaugh, or Savage will bring it up....guaranteed.

Kind of funny we can link polls to major news outlets clammoring about gun control hours after some **** killed 32 innocent people, but you can just make conjecture...

NICE!

In a world of 6.5 billion people an atmosphere is created. An atmosphere must have extremes. This kid was one of the extremes. The note will probably be completely unsatisfactory for those trying to find meaning.

aaharvel

bobman1235 wrote: »

Yeah, I know, the mainstream media would never exploit an event like this and bring up gun control too soon.... Oh wait :

you can stick me in the no category as well Bob, and it was obvious that I was making a point that it wouldn't take long for someone in THIS forum to politicize it.. and judging from Polksda's post I was right -so whatever point you're trying to make suggesting that just because I'm a liberal I must automatically be anti-gun and anti-2nd amendment I just don't get. I'm also pro-life after the 1st tri-mester, and pro-death penalty. I'll be more than happy to disprove any other political pre-conceived notions about me or those of "the left" as well if you'd like. Like I said before - 9hours, 10 minutes.

pmckeealaska

Demiurge...it's not really conjecture, it's a hypothesis. An educated guess based on known information. We can usually predict the way the left and the right roll based upon reactions to previous events. I dont think the left has a monopoly on reactionary politics.

Of course, I could be completely wrong as well. I'm willing to allow for that possibility.:D

bobman1235

aaharvel wrote: »

you can stick me in the no category as well Bob, and it was obvious that I was making a point that it wouldn't take long for someone in THIS forum to politicize it.. and judging from Polksda's post I was right -so whatever point you're trying to make suggesting that just because I'm a liberal I must automatically be anti-gun and anti-2nd amendment I just don't get. I'm also pro-life after the 1st tri-mester, and pro-death penalty. I'll be more than happy to disprove any other political pre-conceived notions about me or those of "the left" as well if you'd like. Like I said before - 9hours, 10 minutes.

My point was merely that your post seemed to be a critique of someone on the forum bringing it up "too soon". It's an issue, in the mainstream media, so you can't blame a forum member for mentioning it when it's all around us.

Demiurge

aaharvel wrote: »

you can stick me in the no category as well Bob, and it was obvious that I was making a point that it wouldn't take long for someone in THIS forum to politicize it.. and judging from Polksda's post I was right -so whatever point you're trying to make suggesting that just because I'm a liberal I must automatically be anti-gun and anti-2nd amendment I just don't get. I'm also pro-life after the 1st tri-mester, and pro-death penalty. I'll be more than happy to disprove any other political pre-conceived notions about me or those of "the left" as well if you'd like. Like I said before - 9hours, 10 minutes.

I always love this.

I'm pro-gun. With restrictions.

I'm pro-life. With restrictions.

I'm just like you. With restrictions.

Cut the crap. This has always been your play on this forum, think nobody has figured it out yet? Amazing you show up again today after all this time away. One look at your little blog shows how you really think.

aaharvel

bobman1235 wrote: »

My point was merely that your post seemed to be a critique of someone on the forum bringing it up "too soon". It's an issue, in the mainstream media, so you can't blame a forum member for mentioning it when it's all around us.

Bob that's cool and i totally understand. I realize that the media has been teasing if not preaching about the idea of a higher influx of gun control probably as early as lunchtime of yesterday. I merely took offense at PolkSda's generalized blanket political statement. If he would have simply labeled it gun control in general or even gun control from the Howard Dean/far-left fringe I still wouldn't have ignored it. I would have given him two thumbs up.

aaharvel

Demiurge wrote: »

I always love this.

I'm pro-gun. With restrictions.

I'm pro-life. With restrictions.

I'm just like you. With restrictions.

Cut the crap. This has always been your play on this forum, think nobody has figured it out yet? Amazing you show up again today after all this time away. One look at your little blog shows how you really think.

If you don't like what I have to say, then put me on the ignore list Demi. Easy as 1,2,3.

Demiurge

aaharvel wrote: »

If you don't like what I have to say, then put me on the ignore list Demi. Easy as 1,2,3.

I didn't say that, just pointing out you're full of it.

It's one thing to have an opinion, and quite another to try and mask of it becuase you're scared of having to defend what you actually believe.

aaharvel

Demiurge wrote: »

I didn't say that, just pointing out you're full of it.

It's one thing to have an opinion, and quite another to try and mask of it becuase you're scared of having to defend what you actually believe.

I don't mask opinions. If I did then you and quite a many others on here wouldn't have a beef with me because you wouldn't know where I stand on anything. No, the problem is I give opinions that you don't want to hear. Opinions that don't fall in line with yours. So again, if you don't like my thoughts on something, or if you don't agree with my philsophy that life is more complicated than a simple game of black and white, then i say again, put me on your ignore list.

Demiurge

aaharvel wrote: »

I don't mask opinions. If I did then you and quite a many others on here wouldn't have a beef with me because you wouldn't know where I stand on anything. No, the problem is I give opinions that you don't want to hear. Opinions that don't fall in line with yours. So again, if you don't like my thoughts on something, or if you don't agree with my philsophy that life is more complicated than a simple game of black and white, then i say again, put me on your ignore list.

Really? Okay, then lets get back to the point you took issue with.

$10 says there will be all sorts of indignant moral outrage from Congress, combined with a plethora of new gun control legislation being proposed.

The left will use any excuse to wrest guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens...

If you're so outraged about this, why don't you argue against the merits of his comments rather than acting like you don't support gun control while still abhorring his comments?

Why am I living in a state where CCW legislation was passed at the state level twice and vetoed by a Democrat Governor twice?

It sickens me that something like what happened yesterday could very well have been minimized had people been allowed to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. Prevented? No, but at least someone would have had a chance.

In fact, the last school shooting in VA at the Appalachian Law School was minimized by a couple of students, one of whom retrieved a service revolver from his vehicle and helped apprehend the killer and hold him until the police showed up.

VA-Tech was a 'Gun Free' zone. Not saying it would stop this lunatic from popping people off, but as stated above someone would have had the right to have a fair and fighting chance.

So please, tell me what Polksda said that was so out of bounds. The liberal media made this about gun control from square one. Don't get pissed that people are engaging in the debate now that it's on the table.

bknauss

Wow, we're this worried about politics and beliefs after all of this?

jdhdiggs

Dave:

You should read the blog again. Two blatant contradictions on the first page (excluding the “I changed my mind” post) and the irony surrounding the whole affair is just outstanding. Truly worth the read.

BK:

The problem is that after something like this, the politico's go reactionary and cause more harm than good. It happened after Columbine, 9/11, and it will probably happen after this as well. I am worried when my freedoms are taken from me in the name of "Safety" when the laws that took the freedom away do not make me any safer. I am very concerned about this.

zombie boy 2000

It looks like two of his "plays" have surfaced....
http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-****/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001

aaharvel

bknauss wrote: »

Wow, we're this worried about politics and beliefs after all of this?

no. THEY'RE worried. I don't care. I've already made the offer for Demi and now whomever disagrees with me to put me on their ignore list. Instead they prefer the dick-measuring contest. Sad.

bobman1235

Andrew, lots of people on this board disagree with each other, and ignoring each other doesn't really lead to good discourse. I think the reason you tend to have more heated comments sent your way, by myself as well as others, is your smarmy way of acting self-righteous about everything you say, and belittling everyone who disagrees with you. I don't know how old you are, you could even be older than me, but I'll give you a lesson anyway - no matter how smart you think you are, you're not.

aaharvel

bobman1235 wrote: »

your smarmy way of acting self-righteous about everything you say, and belittling everyone who disagrees with you.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read the posts of those who you agree (generally) with. Better yet, check out the subject of the threads that i've started since day 1 (O'Reilly excluded;). Or even better yet, we could bring in a third party who could care less which side is right. Again, I'm fully aware the numbers game is against me. I've accepted that. But if you're going to try and tell me that Demi, JD, and others don't do the same thing that you're accusing me of, then that's just nuts.

Ok. Sorry to have ruined the thread err.. i meant sorry to standing up to a guy that lumps all lefties in with crazies like whomever.

steveinaz

Trying to figure this out, will get you nowhere. Sometimes things defy explanation. That's why all the arm-chair quarterbacking an finger pointing needs to stop. Any **** with a crystal ball can call shots after the fact.

The facts are: This kid did something completely unpredictable. How do you plan for such an act? You don't. That's what makes it a tragedy, and why it strikes fear in people. It could happen anytime, anywhere; with minimal planning. Parents aren't to blame, guns aren't to blame, VT staff isn't to blame, law enforcement isn't to blame. A 23 year old South Korean college student with some serious issues is to blame, PERIOD.

Look at Hurricane Katrina....A NATURAL DISASTER...yet many people lost their jobs because of finger-pointing and arm-chair quarterbacking. It's so chicken-****, it makes me sick. I wonder how all those passing judgement from the sidelines would have handled the situation?

madmax

steveinaz wrote: »

The facts are: This kid did something completely unpredictable. How do you plan for such an act? You don't. That's what makes it a tragedy, and why it strikes fear in people. It could happen anytime, anywhere; with minimal planning. Parents aren't to blame, guns aren't to blame, VT staff isn't to blame, law enforcement isn't to blame. A 23 year old South Korean college student with some serious issues is to blame, PERIOD.

I see this as another case of pure evil showing its head. We didn't create it nor can we stop it from happening again. We can kill it when seen if we have the means but nothing is going to prevent it.
madmax

tonyb

You can't prepare for such acts.Steve hit it,nobody's fault but the Korean kid with issues.Guns don't kill people.........people kill people.And if anything comes of this,you must realize that there is true evil in this world.You don't negotiate with it,you don't try and be it's friend,you destroy it.Like weeds in your lawn.Damn shame this had to happen.The media I'm sure,will look to create a story about fault and who knows,maybe this too will be Bush's doing.
Just ask Rosie.Sorry Andy,couldn't help myself,Pal.