22 Dead at VT

bobman1235

That story is horrific shack. Sorry to hear about that. You don't think that kind of thing happens outside fiction.

Early B.

shack wrote: »

Right now I could give a rats **** about video games, gun laws or whatever....

...As a society, when and how do we say...WE ARE MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE?

As soon as we deal with violence in the media, video games, gun laws, or whatever. So yes, you should give a rat's **** about these things right now.

dkg999

When someone crosses the line into the place in their mind that they need to do something like this, the gun is only a tool. If they can't get a gun, they will use something else. It's way too easy to make a bomb out of a 20lb propane cylinder, stolen from anyone's backyard grill. A propane cylinder kills indescriminately, taking way more than the intended victim(s) with it. It really doesn't matter, because once they make the decision to kill, they are going to do it, gun, no gun, whatever they can get to do the job.

It's a fact that the police are not required to protect you, and that a well-trained civilian permitted to carry a weapon can prevent or minimize the damage in these scenarios. In one of the other college shootings, a student retrieved a gun from their vehicle and forced the attacker to change their plans and helped limit the damage. Funny, the media didn't want to report on that.

We have to start attacking the reasons people feel the need to act out in deadly aggression. The criminals will always have weapons. And in the UK and Australia, severe restrictions on private citizens having weapons has not solved the problem.

Demiurge

It really doesn't matter, because once they make the decision to kill, they are going to do it, gun, no gun, whatever they can get to do the job.

Bingo.

shack

liordra wrote: »

any ransom calls? were they caught? can you post a link to that story?

Not all of the details are a matter of public record yet. Here is the AP story. A fifth woman suspect who was in the house at the time has now been arrested.

"(AP) Suspects indicted in connection with couple's slaying"
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD
Associated Press Writer
KNOXVILLE, Tenn.

As federal indictments were returned Wednesday against four suspects in the fatal carjacking of a young Knoxville couple, court records suggested one of the suspects might still have been in prison if an appeals court hadn't thrown out his plea deal.

Eric Boyd, 34, was released after serving about seven years of a 20-year sentence when the state Court of Criminal Appeals ruled in 2003 that prosecutors violated the terms under which he pleaded guilty to 11 counts of aggravated robbery in 1995.

Boyd's deal hinged on his accomplice Earnest Boyd Collier III not drawing a lesser sentence. Boyd feared that might happen since he is black and was represented by a public defender, while Collier is white and had a "prominent Knoxville attorney" to defend him.

When Collier's lawyer, Herbert Moncier, succeeded in getting Collier's confession thrown out on grounds that police used excessive force, Collier was sentenced to eight years' probation. That broke the deal with Boyd, the appeals court said, and prosecutors basically let him go.

Now Boyd stands accused by two co-defendants in the car theft, abduction and murders of Channon Christian, a 21-year-old University of Tennessee student, and her 23-year-old boyfriend,Christopher Newsom, according to unsealed affidavits to support search warrants. Boyd is also accused of raping Christian.

"It is one of those instances where the victims were truly innocent," John Gill, special assistant to Knox County District Attorney Randy Nichols, said of Christian and Newsom, who both still lived at home and were last seen on a date Jan. 6.

Although authorities won't say where the couple was attacked, Gill said it was a case of being "at the wrong place at the wrong time."

The seven-count federal indictment returned Wednesday in Knoxville against the four suspects only touched on the carjacking.

"The Knox Countydistrict attorney and the U.S. attorney are working together and reviewing the case, and will try to decide what happens from here," Knoxville police spokesman Darrell DeBusk said. "But right now there are no official state charges that I am aware of."

Two suspects caught in Kentucky _ Letalvis Cobbins, 24, and George Thomas, 27 _ agreed during a brief hearing in Louisville on Wednesday to waive their right to further hearings so they can be transferred back to Knoxville.

Lemaricus "Slim" Davidson, 25, and Cobbins, his brother, face the most serious federal count _ aiding and abetting each other and others "with intent to cause death and serious bodilyharm" in the theft of Christian's 2005 Toyota 4-Runner.

But in statements to police, Thomas and Cobbins claimed they were in Davidson's home the night of the carjacking and saw Boyd and Davidson enter with the "bound and blindfolded" victims, Knoxville Police Investigator Todd Childress wrote in the affidavits.

They claimed "Boyd escorted victim Newsom from the residence at gunpoint and returned to the residence without him," the affidavit said.

Newsom, barefoot and hands bound by a shoestring, was shot at least three times. His body was wrapped in a sheet or comforter and burned. It was discovered along some railroad tracks Jan. 7 about twoblocks from Davidson's rented house, court documents said.

Thomas and Cobbins also claimed they were present "when Eric Boyd sexually assaulted Christian prior to her death," according to affidavits.

The medical examiner determined Christian was "bound, physically assaulted and raped on or about the time of the commission of the homicide," the court papers said.

Her body was found in a trash can in Davidson's house two days later.

Authorities used the search warrants to collect biological evidence from Boyd, including fingernail scrapings. Blood stains on walls in Davidson's home also was recovered, along with several cell phones,clothes, weapons and a necklace that resembled Christian's earrings.

The affidavits said Christian's father, Gary Christian, spoke to her last by phone around 12:30 a.m. on Jan. 7, and she told him she would be home between 2:30 a.m. and 3 a.m.

Gary Christian found her SUV the next day two blocks from the house where her body was later found. The phone company tracked the closest signal tower to where Christian's cell phone was last used. Davidson's fingerprints were on an envelope in the Toyota 4-Runner.

The victims' parents told police their children had no "connection to Davidson," court documents said. An affidavit said Davidson, who servedtime for aggravated robbery and carjacking from Madison County, allegedly was carrying cocaine when captured and admitted selling drugs from his house, which he had shared with Thomas and Cobbins.

aaharvel

30 dead, 29 wounded. Largest mass shooting in US history, campus or otherwise.

Unbelievable.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIRGINIA_TECH_SHOOTING?SITE=AZMES&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

by all accounts, this is a terrorist act.

mhardy6647

Not a new record that needed to be set. :-(

Horrible.

audiobliss

What's the problem? Video games? TV shows? Movies? The availablity of guns?

No. It's parents and the morals/values they're instilling in their children, or not instilling in their children.

I love playing those 'violent' first-person shooter games, even though I rarely do, but you have to have the right perspective about real life, the game, and how the two are not the same. That comes from your own personal/religious beliefs and what/how you were raised.

There's no excuse for behavior like this, and it's nothing but a sad, sad account of today's society.



And just as a side note to throw out there, I've also noticed some kind of a feeling that may be referred to as 'detachment' when handling a firearm. It really is a weird feeling: holding something that you are in control of that you know can easily take the life of anyone around you. However, I think continuing to handle the actual firearms will necessitate an increase in respect for the firearm and its potential.

Perhaps similar to racing video games. Maybe they desensitize kids to how great a responsibility it really is to drive a car, and the massive consequences that can come from doing so nonchalantly.

Early B.

audiobliss wrote: »

What's the problem? Video games? TV shows? Movies? The availablity of guns?

No. It's parents and the morals/values they're instilling in their children, or not instilling in their children.

While that sounds good, the reality is that society continues to play a significantly greater role in raising children. Children watch far more TV and play more video games than their parents' generation. Twenty years ago, there was no "gangster rap," Internet, or Xbox. And, of course, many parents see nothing wrong with this stuff, so they are unable to instill the proper morals/values in their children.

No one knows exactly how much these things adversely contribute to our society, if at all, but they certainly deserve our attention.

madmax

I'm with Archie Bunker on this one. Everyone should be required to carry a firearm.

I know one person who goes to VT. Engineering Dept. Just found out he is ok. Whew!
madmax

Demiurge

Early B. wrote: »

While that sounds good, the reality is that society continues to play a significantly greater role in raising children. Children watch far more TV and play more video games than their parents' generation. Twenty years ago, there was no "gangster rap," Internet, or Xbox. And, of course, many parents see nothing wrong with this stuff, so they are unable to instill the proper morals/values in their children.

No one knows exactly how much these things adversely contribute to our society, if at all, but they certainly deserve our attention.

20 years ago I was 7 years old. I had Nintendo (CONTRA -- OMG RAMPAGGGGGEEEE!), played guns and cops 'n robbers with kids in the neighborhood. Young MC never made me want to bust a cap in anybody's ****.

Audiobliss is right. If you raise a moron kid he's going to be influenced by things like gangster rap because they never learned that you can't kill someone because you got a crooked look or someone dissed you.

There are millions of kids playing video games, and there aren't millions of kids murdering people because of it. That's a trumped up bunch of BS that holds no water.

...even if your argument was rational, you're essentially saying guns aren't really the problem, but the media and culture. Meaning getting shanked with a candlestick by a cracked out gangster isn't out of the realm of possibility even if guns didn't exist.

I guess it's just easier to blame it on everything other than individuals.

jakelm

Hitler never played video games, watched the same tv or movies as today. So whats his excuse? He has none, he was just CRAZY.

Demiurge

jakelm wrote: »

Hitler never played video games, watched the same tv or movies as today. So whats his excuse? He has none, he was just CRAZY.

You're wrong. He stared in Wolfenstein 3D. The Trenchcoat Mafia told me so.

bobman1235

30 years ago westerns were a big deal. You didn't see high school kids hopping on horses and shooting up their school with a six shooter.

Of course media and culture has a significant impact, and should be "looked at" as Early B says, but you can't BLAME it. You can't control it anyway. It's free speech, and if your solution is to get rid of that, there's going to be another gun-toting maniac on the loose. The only thing you can control is teaching your kids right from wrong.

jakelm

bobman1235 wrote: »

30 years ago westerns were a big deal. You didn't see high school kids hopping on horses and shooting up their school with a six shooter.

.

30 years ago their parents would have beat the **** out of them if they even thought of it.

Now...its counseling..chicken **** parents who DARE NOT touch or dissapline a child for missconduct and misbehavior. But ditch them off for someone else to raise them....like the school and the goverment.

I am a parent of 2 boys...and I see it every day. Parents blame everyone and everything but themselves and their precious, holy, wonderful kids.

jakelm

I spank and I whip, but I also hug , nurture and love my kids. We, as a society, have lost the physical bond between parents and children. Our lives have become so fast, that our children are getting left in the dust, to fend and think for themselves....WHICH THEY ARE UNABLE TO DO.

MrNightly

Demiurge wrote: »

You're wrong. He stared in Wolfenstein 3D. The Trenchcoat Mafia told me so.

Wolfenstein 3D ROCKED!!! Way ahead of it's time. Return to Castle Wolfenstein was my personal alltime favorite too!

tommyboy

jakelm wrote: »

30 years ago their parents would have beat the **** out of them if they even thought of it.

Now...its counseling..chicken **** parents who DARE NOT touch or dissapline a child for missconduct and misbehavior. But ditch them off for someone else to raise them....like the school and the goverment.

hmmm.... I seem to remember (well, I wasn't alive but) a shooting at the University of texas back in the 60s killing I believe 15 people, no violent video games and tv back then.

This guy has to be at least 18. He is an adult now, can you stop blaming everyone else besides him(yes, I'm reposting the same comment)

Early B.

Demiurge wrote: »

20 years ago I was 7 years old. I had Nintendo (CONTRA -- OMG RAMPAGGGGGEEEE!), played guns and cops 'n robbers with kids in the neighborhood. Young MC never made me want to bust a cap in anybody's ****.

Audiobliss is right. If you raise a moron kid he's going to be influenced by things like gangster rap because they never learned that you can't kill someone because you got a crooked look or someone dissed you.

There are millions of kids playing video games, and there aren't millions of kids murdering people because of it. That's a trumped up bunch of BS that holds no water.

...even if your argument was rational, you're essentially saying guns aren't really the problem, but the media and culture. Meaning getting shanked with a candlestick by a cracked out gangster isn't out of the realm of possibility even if guns didn't exist.

I guess it's just easier to blame it on everything other than individuals.

How do you influence parents to raise better children? It requires social change. Merely pointing the finger and saying it's the parents' fault is a cop out and solves nothing.

Obviously, if most parents were capable of raising better children, they'd opt to do so. Many parents simply don't have parenting skills, and even if they do, they are competing with influences that may have more control over their children than they do. For instance, most children probably spend far more time watching TV or playing video games than spending quality time with their parents. So who's raising the children?

PolkThug

Early B. wrote: »

So who's raising the children?

MySpace

Demiurge

Early B. wrote: »

How do you influence parents to raise better children? It requires social change. Merely pointing the finger and saying it's the parents' fault is a cop out and solves nothing.

Obviously, if most parents were capable of raising better children, they'd opt to do so. Many parents simply don't have parenting skills, and even if they do, they are competing with influences that may have more control over their children than they do. For instance, most children probably spend far more time watching TV or playing video games than spending quality time with their parents. So who's raising the children?

If I'm finger pointing by saying that parents actually need to be responsibile for their kids then what are you doing?

Blaming the media, video games, movies, guns, etc. All inanimate objects. Things that can't do anything without human interaction -- things that have no mind of their own.

To the second point. I don't disagree, but I must ask. Who is responsible for the kid playing video games and watching movies too much? The parents or the video games?

The answer is simple. It's not the problem of video game manufacturers that nitwits are having kids. They don't need to assume any responsibility for stupid lazy parents.

It's definitley simplifying it. I have done dumb things as a kid that could have had bad results, but I never killed, raped, or tortured anyone. Imagine that. I must be the most dangerous guy in the world with the guns, video games, alcohol, and movies I have in my posession. I must be the 8th wonder of the world by being able to hold it all together without killing anybody.

audiobliss

Argh. You're still not getting to the root of the problem.

The parents have no parenting skills? So now it's no longer their responsibility to raise their children? And it's ok to let society do that for them? So now we have to transform society into something that will adequately do that? I don't think so. It is the parents job to raise their children. Granted, it's a difficult job. Probably the hardest job anyone could do. But every parent is charged with that job. And it's their job; not society's.

You say children spend too much time watching TV and playing video games, and so parents have no influence on their children? I agree, that's probably true in a LOT of cases. However, you can't just end saying 'who's raising the children?' and state that society needs to become a collective 'parent'. WHY are the kids watching too much TV and playing too many video games? Because their parents let them in the first place. It's a lack of parenting skills and/or the lack of the application of them that leads to them playing these video games/watching TV all the time.

Sure, society's really really messed up. Sure, it needs to change. But it does not need to become every child's parent!

BottomFeeder

I think it's clear that this is just representative of an overall decline in the moral fibre of our country. If I sound preachy then I apologize, but someone needs to say it. What was once considered "wrong behavior" in our country years ago is now considered acceptable. It's no mystery. And we're just paying the price for it.

The farther we move away from the values upon which our nation was founded and the lower value we place upon human life, the more we have seen and will see behavior like this.

jakelm

Early,

Is it your fault?
Is it the goverments fault?
Is it the schools fault?
The home is where it starts and who is in control of the home?

No human being is born with parenting skills. The skills are developed with PARENTING. If no parenting is done, if no control is astablished in the home, then NO skills will be learned and no control will be had. Thne next thing you know, you have an inocent child who has no behavor skills and no control skills, because his/her PARENTS didnt have any to teach. So if the child who is growing into an adult is not LUCKY enough to develope them on his/her OWN, then the child, who will become an adult, will have a very difficult time in life.

And the same goes for parents who shelter their kids too much.

NOt letting the child experience life and then teaching and explaining what the child has learned, to make sure the child understands what happened and how to deal with it. So when it happens again and the parents are not there, the child will know how to act or react.

hoosier21

A lone gunman is dead after killing 32 people at two sites at Virginia Tech, the university's president confirmed Monday. He called the massacre an "incomprehensible, heinous act." Virginia Rep. Randy Forbes said he understands the shooter was a student and that he turned the gun on himself.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

No words for this type of stuff,

AndyGwis

Fubar

jakelm

That is so sad...terrible terrible things happen in this world...its very hard to digest.

swerve

my heart goes out to all the victim's and their families.

schwarcw

swerve wrote: »

my heart goes out to all the victim's and their families.

Amen!

nebborjk

Stupid.