here is a very good page on expensive cables. check it out.

killerb

http://www.zedaudio.com/Technical/Cables.htm

F1nut

A very good page? Why, because you buy into the idea that cables don't make a difference? Theory is one thing, actually listening with your own ears is reality. Zed Audio isn't living in reality. In fact, why don't you delete that pile of misinformation.

Midnite Mick

For all you "non-believers" it is quite simple to have your question answered whether cables make a difference or not (and free too - always a good thing). The next time you have a couple of hours to yourself go to one of your local hi-fi places (not the big electronic stores) and have them swap different interconnects and wire for you. As long as you show an interest in the products they will probably oblige. I am sure they will even let you try things in your own system and return them if you feel it wasn't significant enough to make the purchase.

Give it a shot you have nothing to lose except a couple of hours ( and money when you hear something you like).

Mike

F1nut

killerb, I'm curious as to why after 80 of your 81 posts in the car audio section you decided to post the above in the Clubhouse. Do you even have a home stereo?

howie777

There does seem to be some bad info on that site. The arrow on signal cables is there to distiguish which end of the connector the shield is attached to (the opposite side the arrow is pointing towards) it has nothing to do with which way the signal will "flow" better. Its just trying to return any noise picked up back to the source and away from the amplifiers where it could bleed into the signal to the speakers. This is pretty common practice and will only make a difference if there is noise coming into the signal cable from the enviorment and it makes it all the way to the signal on the way to the speakers. But this is better to have then to not have.

But I agree on the skinning effect. At such low freq you won't notice it. Besides the only way to reduce skinning that I'm aware of is very thin strands of wire, each with its own insulator. skinning still happens, but since the electrons can't jump from strand to strand and head for the outer most stands of copper, you end up with more area carring electrons. Not sure you can even buy these cables as they would be really expensive, but I've never looked at the ultra high end cables either. Way to much money, for at best, very little gain in my opinion and gain most humans probably can't detect. And since I don't have that much money, I never want to find out I'm wrong because then I'll want them. But I doubt I'm wrong, but anything is possible.

Howie

Probably should have kept my mouth shut, but I'm working on 3 hours of sleep :-(

killerb

i have been in the audio hobby for over 20 years and work in the electronics industry. dont get upset. i do have a car audio and a home audio system. i wasnt saying i agree with the page i was mearly posting some info from a very respected audio designer. he knows more than you and i combined. so you can agree or disagree, makes me know difference. also posting on this site is not a validation of the amount of knowledge you have on a subject. read it if you want and take what you can from it. its information, maybe you should spend less time on polkaudio.com and more time exploring other forms of knowledge. open your mind.

killerb

howie is right. skin effect has no effect in the audio freq. bandwith.

killerb

F1nut wrote:

A very good page? Why, because you buy into the idea that cables don't make a difference? Theory is one thing, actually listening with your own ears is reality. Zed Audio isn't living in reality. In fact, why don't you delete that pile of misinformation.

the reason you want it deleted is probably because you dont understand it.

marker

I just don't understand why this seems to be such an emotional issue to some people, regardless on which side they stand.

If you think that you can hear a difference, then that's your prerogative. And if you think that you can't, that's also your prerogative as well.

Either way, why care so much about what others think?

killerb

your right. i was just posting the page for information's sake. i didnt say i agreed or disagreed. i do know steve mantz is one the most talented audio designers on the planet.

MacLeod

Go easy on him guys. He's new here and this is the first time he's ventured out of the car audio side. Be gentle.

F1nut

killerb wrote:

the reason you want it deleted is probably because you dont understand it.

You would be incorrect. I've been in audio for 36 years and understand it perfectly well. That is why I asked you to delete it because it is MISINFORMATION.

Open mind??? You should suggest that to Steve Mantz, obviously he's clueless on this matter.

MSALLA

It's funny how the subject of cables is so good at bunching panties in rear ends on this fourm. It's like an automatic wedgie.

cfrizz

ROFLOL!!! Yup a whole lot of uptight people when it comes to cable discussions! Hysterical!:D

MSALLA wrote:

It's funny how the subject of cables is so good at bunching panties in rear ends on this fourm. It's like an automatic wedgie.

RuSsMaN

I mean really, who cares? Go get your listen on, have fun.

disneyjoe7

MSALLA wrote:

It's funny how the subject of cables is so good at bunching panties in rear ends on this fourm. It's like an automatic wedgie.

LOL, Love it.

KillerB, I think you need to spend more time reading then posting. You could learn a lot. Very few of us are in the camp of cables don't do a thing for you.

unc2701

I'm totally going to start making up noob ID's and post about how cables don't matter just to watch F1 loose his **** everytime.

F1nut

Well there unc, allow me......... First, it's lose, not loose. Second, I never "lose" my ****. Nothing on here makes me mad, quite the opposite. If you take things here personally, you're in the wrong place.

Anyway, I find a lot of the ignorant and misinformed posts entertaining, to say the least. Those that I don't find entertaining, I find to be somewhat sad. I may choose to voice my opinon on some of these matters simply because I enjoy being the voice of the counterpoint view. It's fun and a form of mental exercise, if you will.

So, there you have it. You've read me entirely wrong, but I'm not surprised.




Edit: Like Russman says, "Go get your listen on, have fun."

I-SIG

I'm more of a material kind of guy. Give me very nice materials, and the actual design of the cable will probably only contribute small minority to the sound, assuming it's at least a sound, basicly engineered design.

I haven't been convinced that anyone makes better copper than AQ, so I bought AQ, regardless of the design.

Silver, I have no clue.

Wes

exalted512

i dont think cables make a difference at all, wire is wire. But I dont doubt that the connectors make a difference. There is a slight difference with impedance and such, but any half **** company can get it close enough to right that it doesnt matter. Especially in car audio, i buy cables according to shielding and quality of the connectors, it stops about right there.

Do I think theres a difference between $50 interconnects and $500 interconnects? Of course, is it audible? Hell no.

Burn in? Jesus christ...
-Cody

PolkThug

Cables make a HUGE difference, that can't be measured.

Rock on

F1nut

exalted512 wrote:

Do I think theres a difference between $50 interconnects and $500 interconnects? Of course, is it audible? Hell no.

Burn in? Jesus christ...
-Cody

See now, that is entertaining because I know he's never tried $500.00 IC's.

exalted512

would you like to put money on that?

F1nut

Sure. You take a pic of them with your wife holding them by tomorrow noon and you've got a bet.

exalted512

dont have em anymore. A guy came into our shop with them in his car on his mcintosh amps, they were made by impact acoustics. We took all his equipment out of his car to go into a surburban, the interconnects were too short so he gave em to me if i installed his equipment for free. 3 sets. Made no difference from the $100 streetwires interconnects i had. Sold all 3 for $400 to a friend and bought myself an alarm for the truck, put the streetwires back in the truck.
-Cody

ohskigod

yep, cables dont make a diference. any difference I have heard was mearly a figment of my imagination, because others said so. eeeeeesh. whatever

cmy330go

I'd say cable debates on this forum are more tense than the recent evolution thread.:rolleyes:

F1nut

Cody, ah shucks. I thought we were talking about home audio.

Shizelbs

High end cables is like a sci-fi movie. If you want to believe in it, so be it.

disneyjoe7

F1nut wrote:

Sure. You take a pic of them with your wife holding them by tomorrow noon and you've got a bet.

Now this is getting entertaining for all of us.

killerb

money is better spent on things that we actually listen to like quality speakers and the amps that drive them.