Okay, a completely new discovery for me - Music Server - Questions...

treitz3

*sigh*

Now I am even more confused than I was before. I thought I had read earlier in this thread that the CDP didn't matter when doing a rip. It's just reading the 1's and 0's. Then their were a couple of programs (one in particular) that offered pretty much a guaranty that it was bit for bit perfect....and that this file went into an SSD, computer or server bit for bit perfect, with no degradation to the sound.

I can return the CD drive, no worries there.

Let me ask you guys this......since they apparently DO make a difference. What is the difference between CD readers/drives that I would need to concern myself with? Is it the quality of the laser? Quality of the circuit that sends the signal? What's the difference and how could this possibly affect things, since all it is doing is reading the disc and transferring the data?

I mean, if I want a decent CD player to play CD's, I still do have my Jolida CDP. Could that be used instead? What about using the Marantz?

Tom

WilliamM2

treitz3 wrote: »

Let me ask you guys this......since they apparently DO make a difference. What is the difference between CD readers/drives that I would need to concern myself with? Is it the quality of the laser? Quality of the circuit that sends the signal? What's the difference and how could this possibly affect things, since all it is doing is reading the disc and transferring the data?

The difference isn't in the rip. It's reliability and speed. In my experience with computer drives. LG's are slow and don't last very long. Same with slim drives.

And if you are ripping a collection, a difference of 10 minutes a disc can add up to hours very quickly.

As stated before, I have only seen LG or Lite-on made drives for the last decade or more. I bought a few in 2017 or 2018, when I noticed availability declining, and prices rising. You used to be able to get retail versions of Asus or Lite-On branded drives for $12 at Newegg. No more.
Asus seems the most widely available.

billbillw

Tom, I think I said any decent drive, and I said specifically to avoid slimline drives. That Amazon product is some abomination of a USB hub, card reader and disc reader. I doubt it excels at anything.

Your solution it to follow my links. Don't overthink it.

There is no way to really compare the lasers etc these days.

For the software to work correctly the drive has to support Secure Rip. Pretty much all the current 5.25" internal style drives will meet that criteria. Other than that it is like WilliamM2 said above. Speed and reliability. Slimline drives are typically much slower and the mechanism is not as durable.

pitdogg2

I should probably buy an extra for my computer.

mhardy6647

I got rid of a nice old LiteOn drive last week when I scrapped a Compaq 4505 minitower (Win95 and all). I did think about saving it, but even I have my limits. The 'pute had been sitting around for a couple of decades in its original packaging.

As an interesting aside, the 14" CRT Compaq monitor that came bundled with it also came with a couple of slip-on, side-mount "Polk Audio" speakers. The monitor & speakers are long gone, though (I am pleased to report).

billbillw

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I got rid of a nice old LiteOn drive last week when I scrapped a Compaq 4505 minitower (Win95 and all). I did think about saving it, but even I have my limits. The 'pute had been sitting around for a couple of decades in its original packaging.

As an interesting aside, the 14" CRT Compaq monitor that came bundled with it also came with a couple of slip-on, side-mount "Polk Audio" speakers. The monitor & speakers are long gone, though (I am pleased to report).

Those early IDE/PATA drives were not great at ripping. I had a lot of jittery rips in the early days. Software wasn't great back then either. Once SATA took over, reliable rips became the norm. I think by 2005, I never had a bad rip.

jbreezy5

IMO, Tom would save himself a lot of time, money, and space if he just contacted Aurender, or used their online tool to get a recommendation on the most suitable server/streamer.

There should be zero concern about noise with Aurender. I have only ever heard raves about sound quality with them as well.

Clipdat

The Aurender app is also excellent.

treitz3

jbreezy5 wrote: »

IMO, Tom would save himself a lot of time, money, and space if he just contacted Aurender, or used their online tool to get a recommendation on the most suitable server/streamer.

There should be zero concern about noise with Aurender. I have only ever heard raves about sound quality with them as well.

Hmmmm....

I took you off of ignore, as this is a new year and folks need another chance. Yet, here you ares....doing the same thing you always do. While I always appreciate recommendations? I'd like to hear it from folks who have ACTUAL experience. Not "experience" with what they read online. Anybody can do that. It amounts to.......doesn't matter.

You were put on ignore by me because you were telling me what I heard in MY OWN SYSTEM, with you never hearing it!!! I gave you a second chance and this is the first post I read from you since your release? Damn, man. Really?

I gave you a second chance because Ron (respected member and good friend) had mentioned you in another thread. Unfortunately? I do not need to read any more from you. Sad.

Tom

treitz3

That said? I am abandoning the server thing for now and improving on the digital side of the reproductive effort again. Eh? We shall see how it goes...

At this point? I am looking long term/picture.

Justin? I'll give you a few more posts. That's all I will say about that.

Tom

billbillw

treitz3 wrote: »

That said? I am abandoning the server thing for now and improving on the digital side of the reproductive effort again. Eh? We shall see how it goes...

At this point? I am looking long term/picture.

Justin? I'll give you a few more posts. That's all I will say about that.

Tom

Server or not, I still think you should at least take a little time to rip some of your favorite 'special version' redbook CDs and get them into FLAC or WAV. Whether you host them on a server or play them from a portable SSD/thumbdrive by USB connection to the Lumin, I think you will appreciate the sound quality and the ability to play back some of those recordings that are not available on Qobuz.

Clipdat

treitz3 wrote: »

I'd like to hear it from folks who have ACTUAL experience. Not "experience" with what they read online.

I've reviewed two Aurender units, you can take a read here if you're interested:

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/review-aurender-a100-network-music-server-and-streamer/

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/aurender-a200-caching-music-server-review/

jbreezy5

treitz3 wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

IMO, Tom would save himself a lot of time, money, and space if he just contacted Aurender, or used their online tool to get a recommendation on the most suitable server/streamer.

There should be zero concern about noise with Aurender. I have only ever heard raves about sound quality with them as well.

Hmmmm....

I took you off of ignore, as this is a new year and folks need another chance. Yet, here you ares....doing the same thing you always do. While I always appreciate recommendations? I'd like to hear it from folks who have ACTUAL experience. Not "experience" with what they read online. Anybody can do that. It amounts to.......doesn't matter.

You were put on ignore by me because you were telling me what I heard in MY OWN SYSTEM, with you never hearing it!!! I gave you a second chance and this is the first post I read from you since your release? Damn, man. Really?

I gave you a second chance because Ron (respected member and good friend) had mentioned you in another thread. Unfortunately? I do not need to read any more from you. Sad.

Tom

treitz3 wrote: »

That said? I am abandoning the server thing for now and improving on the digital side of the reproductive effort again. Eh? We shall see how it goes...

At this point? I am looking long term/picture.

Justin? I'll give you a few more posts. That's all I will say about that.

Tom

Self-aware much, Tom?

First of all, I don’t need a second chance from you (as though I’m at your mercy; LOL).

For the record, you put me on ignore, b/c I called out your bullSchiit, and you couldn’t handle it.

It’s the same “I’m up here, and you’re down there.” attitude reflected in your above posts.

If you need your ego stroked, you won’t get that from me.

txcoastal1

HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS

treitz3

No, you seem to forget. You were telling me what I was hearing. Not calling me on any BS.

Since you have stereotyped me under false pretenses and I have better things to do with my time than argue, back to ignore you go.

Have a great life.

Tom

jbreezy5

treitz3 wrote: »

No, you seem to forget. You were telling me what I was hearing. Not calling me on any BS.

Since you have stereotyped me under false pretenses and I have better things to do with my time than argue, back to ignore you go.

Have a great life.

Tom

Full context can be seen under:

“Streaming....better than physical? I think so...”

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/198493/streaming-better-than-physical-i-think-so/p1

It’s unthinkable that one can eisegete communication at such an extreme level.

Goodbye Tom.

billbillw

Wtf. This thread just needs to be purged. Tom, when you are ready, start a new one in the Going Digital sub.

erniejade

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmOMc3ji9w

I have the Innuos Thomas makes mention of in tbh bh b by nohis video. I agree with his assessment of the sound on it. I like a little warmer romantic side on the sound of the Innuos and, it has a solid ripper and internal storage. If I leave it on, other things in the house can hit off of it so it can serve as a music server.

I have also heard the Night angel he is originally talking about in the video. I feel he was dead on.

I had have heard the Aurender equipment and enjoyed it quite a bit but, none of the times were on my own rig.

You also mentioned a Jolida. That was my standard ror many years until a Cayin scd-50,,,,tĝ ft

mhardy6647

erniejade wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmOMc3ji9w

I have the Innuos Thomas makes mention of in tbh bh b by nohis video. ...

Oh, crud! Am I having a stroke?

ChrisD06

jbreezy5 wrote: »

treitz3 wrote: »

No, you seem to forget. You were telling me what I was hearing. Not calling me on any BS.

Since you have stereotyped me under false pretenses and I have better things to do with my time than argue, back to ignore you go.

Have a great life.

Tom

Full context can be seen under:

“Streaming....better than physical? I think so...”

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/198493/streaming-better-than-physical-i-think-so/p1

It’s unthinkable that one can eisegete communication at such an extreme level.

Goodbye Tom.

If I'm correct, Tom is expressing there being less noise in streaming than with his CD player? That makes perfect sense to me, honestly.

Analog cables will pick up noise, streaming is much more resistant to this. The second your CD player outputs it's audio through the RCA jacks, it can pick up noise. Speaking from a technical perspective, you'd want to reduce/delay the first analog point in the system. For a streaming setup it'd be the pre-amp.

I've personally found that I have less noise (I still need to sort this out, it's due to a ground loop) when I stream than when I use my CD player on RCA for this reason. Toslink doesn't introduce this noise.

Of course Tom's setup to my understanding is something I'll only ever be able to dream of having, but one can always theorize. Personally I'd just use Toslink but if he doesn't like the sound of it then I get that.

Streaming is lossless now, it sends 100% of the data to your device. Your goal is simply to have a setup which allows this data to be processed correctly so the sound that comes out of the system accurately represents the sound being sent to your device.

jdjohn

A valiant effort, Chris, but you still have a few things to sort out in your knowledge base.

ChrisD06 wrote:

Analog cables will pick up noise, streaming is much more resistant to this. The second your CD player outputs it's audio through the RCA jacks, it can pick up noise. Speaking from a technical perspective, you'd want to reduce/delay the first analog point in the system. For a streaming setup it'd be the pre-amp.

This is actually no different than the last leg from an external DAC into a preamp, when streaming.

ChrisD06 wrote:

I've personally found that I have less noise (I still need to sort this out, it's due to a ground loop) when I stream than when I use my CD player on RCA for this reason. Toslink doesn't introduce this noise.

The CD player noise is more likely due to the mechanical parts of the player...not the cabling. I think this is the crux of what Tom is trying to determine: Does a player introduce unwanted noise, compared to pure streaming, or using a music server?

ChrisD06 wrote:

Streaming is lossless now, it sends 100% of the data to your device. Your goal is simply to have a setup which allows this data to be processed correctly so the sound that comes out of the system accurately represents the sound being sent to your device.

You might want to read-up on what 'lossless' truly means. The majority of streaming done across the globe is still lossy. Spotify, for example, is still lossy, and has the biggest market share. Qobuz and Tidal, to my understanding, are lossless, but not nearly as popular as Spotify...overall.

Clipdat

ChrisD06 wrote: »

If I'm correct, Tom is expressing there being less noise in streaming than with his CD player? That makes perfect sense to me, honestly.

Analog cables will pick up noise, streaming is much more resistant to this. The second your CD player outputs it's audio through the RCA jacks, it can pick up noise. Speaking from a technical perspective, you'd want to reduce/delay the first analog point in the system. For a streaming setup it'd be the pre-amp.

I've personally found that I have less noise (I still need to sort this out, it's due to a ground loop) when I stream than when I use my CD player on RCA for this reason. Toslink doesn't introduce this noise.

Of course Tom's setup to my understanding is something I'll only ever be able to dream of having, but one can always theorize. Personally I'd just use Toslink but if he doesn't like the sound of it then I get that.

Streaming is lossless now, it sends 100% of the data to your device. Your goal is simply to have a setup which allows this data to be processed correctly so the sound that comes out of the system accurately represents the sound being sent to your device.

It's cute when you try to sound smart.

newbie308

This thread motivated me to start this process. To that end I spent my holiday down time ripping all of my CD's to WAV files and saving them to my internal SSD hard drive on my desktop PC. I can move them to an external network drive in the future. I shared the folder on my network and was able to access those files with the newly acquired Oppo UDP-203 that I am currently using in my main rig as a CD transport, and the older Oppo BDP-103 that is now connected to my home theater system. I like that I can access all of the music files from various locations in my house! That's pretty cool! I listened to the WAV file and compared it to the CD playing in the UDP-203 on my main system, and I like the WAV file better. TBH that surprised me. I didn't anticipate hearing anything different, but the WAV file is without a doubt more detailed and clear. I will do the same experiment and ask my son to listen with his younger ears the next time he visits and get his feedback.

ChrisD06

jdjohn wrote: »

A valiant effort, Chris, but you still have a few things to sort out in your knowledge base.

ChrisD06 wrote:

Analog cables will pick up noise, streaming is much more resistant to this. The second your CD player outputs it's audio through the RCA jacks, it can pick up noise. Speaking from a technical perspective, you'd want to reduce/delay the first analog point in the system. For a streaming setup it'd be the pre-amp.

This is actually no different than the last leg from an external DAC into a preamp, when streaming.

ChrisD06 wrote:

I've personally found that I have less noise (I still need to sort this out, it's due to a ground loop) when I stream than when I use my CD player on RCA for this reason. Toslink doesn't introduce this noise.

The CD player noise is more likely due to the mechanical parts of the player...not the cabling. I think this is the crux of what Tom is trying to determine: Does a player introduce unwanted noise, compared to pure streaming, or using a music server?

ChrisD06 wrote:

Streaming is lossless now, it sends 100% of the data to your device. Your goal is simply to have a setup which allows this data to be processed correctly so the sound that comes out of the system accurately represents the sound being sent to your device.

You might want to read-up on what 'lossless' truly means. The majority of streaming done across the globe is still lossy. Spotify, for example, is still lossy, and has the biggest market share. Qobuz and Tidal, to my understanding, are lossless, but not nearly as popular as Spotify...overall.

Thank you for the corrections and pointing those things out. You have indeed added to my knowledge base, sir!

I should have worded the last part better, yes I was referring to Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer etc. Spotify, if I recall correctly, streams at a maximum of 320Kbps using the M4A codec. Far from lossless.

In other news, if anyone knows how I can sort ou my noise issues, ground loop, please do. Any RCA cable recommendations would be appreciated, preferably something cheap lol I don't have the cash I'd like to spend on them.

jdjohn

ChrisD06 wrote:

Thank you for the corrections and pointing those things out. You have indeed added to my knowledge base, sir!

I should have worded the last part better, yes I was referring to Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer etc. Spotify, if I recall correctly, streams at a maximum of 320Kbps using the M4A codec. Far from lossless.

In other news, if anyone knows how I can sort ou my noise issues, ground loop, please do. Any RCA cable recommendations would be appreciated, preferably something cheap lol I don't have the cash I'd like to spend on them.

Happy to help. Actually, most here are happy to help, but it's always best to approach with a sense of humility, especially when you're new. It's tempting (and all too easy) to over-state and over-reach our knowledge base, but in a format like this, you can get your butt handed to you pretty quickly It's always best to state what you KNOW (as fact and/or from personal, first-hand experience), and leave it at that. Speculating, assuming, and stating absolutes is almost always a bad idea, unless done with VERY clearly stated qualifications. If you read between the lines of most posts here (and in other forums), you will start to notice how folks qualify statements.

I believe you are correct about Spotify's streaming rate. They keep 'teasing' about offering a hi-res option, but they've been saying that for years now. I personally keep holding out for it, and IMO, even their current quality is sufficient for my purposes. See what I did there? "In my opinion (IMO)", and "for my purposes". Those are qualifications

Regarding your noise issues, you might want to start a new thread, so that we don't clutter-up Tom's thread here more than already done. Having said that, we have many examples here of folks de-railing threads, but some of them have earned that right

ChrisD06

jdjohn wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote:

Thank you for the corrections and pointing those things out. You have indeed added to my knowledge base, sir!

I should have worded the last part better, yes I was referring to Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer etc. Spotify, if I recall correctly, streams at a maximum of 320Kbps using the M4A codec. Far from lossless.

In other news, if anyone knows how I can sort ou my noise issues, ground loop, please do. Any RCA cable recommendations would be appreciated, preferably something cheap lol I don't have the cash I'd like to spend on them.

Happy to help. Actually, most here are happy to help, but it's always best to approach with a sense of humility, especially when you're new. It's tempting (and all too easy) to over-state and over-reach our knowledge base, but in a format like this, you can get your butt handed to you pretty quickly It's always best to state what you KNOW (as fact and/or from personal, first-hand experience), and leave it at that. Speculating, assuming, and stating absolutes is almost always a bad idea, unless done with VERY clearly stated qualifications. If you read between the lines of most posts here (and in other forums), you will start to notice how folks qualify statements.

I believe you are correct about Spotify's streaming rate. They keep 'teasing' about offering a hi-res option, but they've been saying that for years now. I personally keep holding out for it, and IMO, even their current quality is sufficient for my purposes. See what I did there? "In my opinion (IMO)", and "for my purposes". Those are qualifications

Regarding your noise issues, you might want to start a new thread, so that we don't clutter-up Tom's thread here more than already done. Having said that, we have many examples here of folks de-railing threads, but some of them have earned that right

I'll start a new thread next paycheque (I know I'm gonna need to spend some cash).

As for Spotify, so help me God if they don't stop teasing the HiFi tier I'm going to lose it. To be fair, they don't really need to upgrade the quality because not enough people find it matters. Hell, I use Spotify. My hi-res listening is done through FLAC files and CDs. I find it's just the nicest app to use.

jdjohn

I agree on Spotify quality, and their user interface. I've built my 'library' there, and don't plan to leave it. And, yes, if I want hi-res, I rip a CD to FLAC, or download a hi-res file from HDTracks, or elsewhere.

ChrisD06

jdjohn wrote: »

I agree on Spotify quality, and their user interface. I've built my 'library' there, and don't plan to leave it. And, yes, if I want hi-res, I rip a CD to FLAC, or download a hi-res file from HDTracks, or elsewhere.

Fun fact: Tidal lets you create infinite free trials using the same credit card. I've not paid for Tidal in 2 years but have always had an account lol.

motorstereo

^^^^^^This sounds like stealing to me. No thanks.

Clipdat

ChrisD06 wrote: »

Fun fact: Tidal lets you create infinite free trials using the same credit card. I've not paid for Tidal in 2 years but have always had an account lol.

Publicly admitting to what amounts as a modern form of music piracy, and knowingly violating the terms of Tidal's EULA? Classy.