Okay, a completely new discovery for me - Music Server - Questions...

heiney9

Keeping it simple will compromise the end result. This is not an endevour to take lightly and to do it correctly will be pricey. My brother keeps his back up in a safe deposit box at the bank.

I looked into running my own music server and in the end found it to be to time intrusive, too expensive, and too complicated to get no compromise results. I have a lot of cd's, but I'm tired of buying new music.

That's why I decided to stream HQ audio and pay a yearly fee. There's lots of music I'd like to check out, but not necessarily enough to own. For instance I did get to hear the Stones new music, but I would never have plopped down the $15 to buy it. On Quobuz I can listen to it a few times.

Properly implemented I hear zero difference between the cd and Quobuz.

IMO, Quobuz is more convenient than a computer based music server and sounds the same.

just my .02c

H9

treitz3

Here is my issue.

My streaming bests (and by a WHOPPING mile) what I get out of my Marantz SA-7S1 Reference SACD player. The difference between the two are so vast that I choose to no longer listen to physical (digital) media through it. It's night and day and I could go on for a while about the "noise" I hear in that unit.

Yes, when I got it years ago? It was the bee's freakin' knees man. Wow! Was it good.

As I have advanced multiple tens of thousands of $$$$$ later? It bites so bad that I can no longer listen to it and enjoy it.

There has to be a better way to listen to my physical media. I have a extensive collection that I can't even listen too at the moment because when in a direct comparison? There is no contest. There is no way in hell I will be getting rid of my physical music. I want a better playback, hence my original post on this thread.

Tom

erniejade

Late to this one. Since 2011, i have gone though Jriver on a laptop usb to a dac, minimserver on a nas to a streamer to the dac, ripped cd's to wave with dbpoweramp, had an external drive hooked to a streamer and I could hear the difference between flac and wave.
I have found my Innuos zen mk3 internal drive for my ripped music to be the better sounding.
I also found when I had an Auralic mini with an internal drive as a streamer to be better sounding for my ripped music vs the NAS, thumb drive, external drive via usb, external drive with a jitterbug usb.

I have not tired roon. I guess that would be my next step?

In any case, for my ripped wave files, I have found the internal drive on my Innuos to sound better then anything housed external. Not sure if its because its less cables, not going though wires, better power supply or what but, to my ears, it just sounds better. Also i can use the Innuos to stream to other devices on the network.

I still back it all up to my nas.

treitz3

H9, it took me a while to find my original review of the Marantz....but it didn't sound bad then

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/176758/new-toy-just-crossed-the-us-border-marantz-sa-7s1/p1

Compared to now, along my audio journey? It was a joke. No lie. Night and day difference. Now, I just need something that can do physical (digital) media justice...

Tom

audioluvr

I don't know about you Tom, but after reading all 3 pages of comments here, I'm pretty sure I now know less.

nooshinjohn

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650040613-synology-disk-station/

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Here is my issue.

My streaming bests (and by a WHOPPING mile) what I get out of my Marantz SA-7S1 Reference SACD player. The difference between the two are so vast that I choose to no longer listen to physical (digital) media through it. It's night and day and I could go on for a while about the "noise" I hear in that unit.

Yes, when I got it years ago? It was the bee's freakin' knees man. Wow! Was it good.

As I have advanced multiple tens of thousands of $$$$$ later? It bites so bad that I can no longer listen to it and enjoy it.

There has to be a better way to listen to my physical media. I have a extensive collection that I can't even listen too at the moment because when in a direct comparison? There is no contest. There is no way in hell I will be getting rid of my physical music. I want a better playback, hence my original post on this thread.

Tom

Ok, so you have stuff not found on a streaming service. I do too, but not enough to spend the money to build a music server (not yet anyway). I have stopped buying physical media for the most part. Right now I also do not have a suitable way to listen to physical media. I am working on it.

What magical part of a computer is going to give you 1000 times better playback than your Marantz? Noise abatement in a computer server is going to be a huge issue, so during your learning phase, pay attention to that part.

I am making the assumption you were running the Marantz through the same DAC as your streamer? If not, it's not a fair fight. I am also assuming you're using the same DAC for a music server.

You'll need many of the same pieces of gear to suppress noise, like another Uptone Audio piece, etc. A stellar power conditioner, etc.

Paying special attention to ripping software and playback software. I have used and will use dBPoweramp and Roon. I have not heard anything about the issues you mention with Roon.

H9

ChrisD06

treitz3 wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

I do genuinely have about 3 years experience with media servers and I can help you out here.

No offense but given your stance on cables/metallurgies? Please do not offer any more information about this to me. If you don't know by now what a basic thing in this hobby can offer a system? You can't help me with my inquiry here.

Stay humble, my friend. Maybe down the road when you experience more, I can carry on a conversation with you to where I would actually respect what you have to say. Until then? Please don't bother.

Tom

Sounds like the "until then" will be when pigs fly, but that's alright with me. Sorry you feel that way.

billbillw

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Strictly FWIW (which may be nothing):

I am old, lazy, and ignorant of post-1998 or so digital technology -
I have a Synology NAS with 6 TB drives in it and I (just) do this:

Upstairs, I have an ancient IBM laptop with Ubuntu on it. I essentially use it as a terminal, with output to a Topping USB DAC kindly karma'd by our own @Clipdat and then to the big boy hifi (or whatever's hooked up and plugged in upstairs at any given moment). Lowbrow but functional, and it sounds fine.

Dat IBM



Ripping a Bloody Moos I mean Moody Blues CD using a Ubuntu app called Sound Juicer on a cold midwinter afternoon in the COVID days.


Anywhere else in the house -- 'streaming' gets a little cumbersome. Not impossible, just cumbersome.

On the bright side, Synology's O/S includes an internet access application that will work from anywhere, which comes in handy sometimes, too.

That's about how I started, with an old laptop. I suspect most of what you are using came well after 1998 though
You know, you could wipe Ubuntu off and load that Dat IBM with Daphile and you would take a leap forward in convenience. You could access Dat IBM from your sweet spot using a phone or tablet. It would make nice looking Album covers, provide Artist/Album info (using the Material Skin add-on) and a whole bunch of other fun stuff.

Screen shots:

pitdogg2

Did anyone else see that Doc has Alice in Chains in his library? I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED !!

billbillw

treitz3 wrote: »

Here is my issue.

My streaming bests (and by a WHOPPING mile) what I get out of my Marantz SA-7S1 Reference SACD player. [sic]

There has to be a better way to listen to my physical media.

Yes, there is...get busy ripping or get busy dying...(a Shawshank reference)

From your posts last night, it looks like you have two of the biggest pieces in place already with the Lumin and the your tube lover DAC.

I am not sure that JRiver is what you should be looking at for software though. It seems like JRiver is designed to be used on a PC directly as a multimedia solution for organization and playback. If you have read or been told that it works well with the Lumin, then maybe it is a good choice. However, from what I am reading, maybe the Lumin just wants your music library on some type of local/network file server and the Lumin app handles the rest.

For simply ripping your CD collection, I think it would be hard to beat dBpoweramp. My previous talk about EAC is probably excessive as I mentioned in a PM. It can be as simple as buying a few 4TB drives and a Synology NAS. 4TB will hold A LOT of 16bit/44kHz music in FLAC format. My current FLAC collection (some is actually 24bit) is still only sitting at around 500GB for over 2000 albums.

I say a few (3 drives) because I would suggest a new clean drive on your PC for ripping, and a pair of mirrored drives in the NAS. That would be the easy, plug and play way to do it. I use FreeFileSync to keep my NAS synced with what I have on my PC.

Ripping or course, will be time consuming, but as I mentioned, dBpoweramp will do a Secure Rip, with AccurateRip verified results in 5-10 minutes per Redbook CD. It does a great job of creating folder structures, getting cover art, and putting in all the music ID/Tag information. Grab a stack and sit down while you are browsing the internet and have it ripping in the background. You can blow through a almost a dozen CDs in an hour if you keep the workflow going.

Personally, I would still prefer to run an actual x86 PC based server using TrueNAS over a Synology NAS, but it depends how deep you want to dive into that stuff.

VR3

If I were you, I would focus on ripping all your stuff in to a high quality hard drive and then plugging directly into the lumin as the server but that's just me

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

If I were you, I would focus on ripping all your stuff in to a high quality hard drive and then plugging directly into the lumin as the server but that's just me

...(with at least 2 backups!)

Yes, that would be a super simple way to do it, but then you have HDD noise in the room. An SSD would be quiet and that may be a solution, but then he has to move the drive back to his PC every time he adds music. With a NAS type solution, you just click Sync and its done in 20-30 seconds.

VR3

Seems like with this you could plug into the lumin and access it through the network to add files and back up

Western Digital 8TB My Cloud EX2 Ultra Network Attached Storage - NAS - Western DigitalBVBZ0080JCH-NESN https://a.co/d/bZ1K8Vw

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

Seems like with this you could plug into the lumin and access it through the network to add files and back up

Western Digital 8TB My Cloud EX2 Ultra Network Attached Storage - NAS - Western DigitalBVBZ0080JCH-NESN https://a.co/d/bZ1K8Vw

That's along the same line as the Synology NAS mentioned previously. I'd take Synology over WD, but both have fairly limited processing power and in my experience, they are nowhere near as reliable as a purpose built Server/NAS using x86 hardware running TrueNAS.

At one point, before I went to full on servers, I had two of these small 2-disc NAS units. One was from Buffalo and the other was Zyxel. They both had issues that required rebooting more than I would like. One just up and died without warning as well. I'm not sure if the WD or Synology is any better, but they are both based on fairly simple SOC boards.

For less money and a whole lot more capability, Tom could get this:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036559940879418/

For reference, 4TB WD Red drives are currently about $65 at Microcenter (coming soon to Charlotte)
https://www.microcenter.com/product/672225/wd-red-plus-4tb-5400-rpm-sata-iii-6gb-s-35-internal-nas-cmr-hard-drive

VR3

Makes sense

Just seems like for the cost, complexity and maintenance and the fact streaming sounds so much better then physical media, just doesn't seem worth it.

treitz3

Streaming does not offer me many of the selections I have available on physical media. Some of what I have is a MUCH better version/copy/release than what is offered via streaming as well.

Streaming is great and I love how pure and clean it is but the road doesn't stop there. To me, it's just another source.

One that taught me I need to up my physical digital game somethin' awful. You know what direction I am headed when it comes to LP's. I want to do the same thing with physical digital media as well.

Tom

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

Makes sense

Just seems like for the cost, complexity and maintenance and the fact streaming sounds so much better then physical media, just doesn't seem worth it.

That's the thing though...a properly ripped CD in FLAC format, hosted on a local network server, should sound every bit as good as the best you've heard from streaming, assuming the DAC and Transport are the same. If you have music on CD that is not available on the paid streaming, this is the way to achieve that same level of sound quality and make listening oh so convenient. No worries about getting finger prints on the disc, or about a laser or belt wearing out, or dust buildup...Everything is just there at your finger tips on a screen, a simple text search away from playback.

The cost is minuscule compared to what we have in our systems and what we have invested in media through the years.

Complexity is not bad at all once you get over a little learning curve and maintenance should not be an issue at all if you setup a proper server using something like TrueNAS. It manages itself. I never have to think about it. I log into the Admin maybe once a week to look for updates to my Apps and check disc health. It has updates every few months that require a reboot.

ChrisD06

billbillw wrote: »

VR3 wrote: »

Makes sense

Just seems like for the cost, complexity and maintenance and the fact streaming sounds so much better then physical media, just doesn't seem worth it.

That's the thing though...a properly ripped CD in FLAC format, hosted on a local network server, should sound every bit as good as the best you've heard from streaming, assuming the DAC and Transport are the same. If you have music on CD that is not available on the paid streaming, this is the way to achieve that same level of sound quality and make listening oh so convenient. No worries about getting finger prints on the disc, or about a laser or belt wearing out, or dust buildup...Everything is just there at your finger tips on a screen, a simple text search away from playback.

The cost is minuscule compared to what we have in our systems and what we have invested in media through the years.

Complexity is not bad at all once you get over a little learning curve and maintenance should not be an issue at all if you setup a proper server using something like TrueNAS. It manages itself. I never have to think about it. I log into the Admin maybe once a week to look for updates to my Apps and check disc health. It has updates every few months that require a reboot.

You also don't need to change discs, and there's no noise introduced by the disc spinning and laser moving.

I think my favorite thing is that the music doesn't go through any analog/digital converters until the pre-amp+amp. You don't need to worry about sound degradation in that regard.

Also I'm with you on x86 and TrueNAS being the best, I still use Arch though because I'm lazy. I really should switch over.

billbillw

I should mention, if buying used server equipment is something that would NOT be considered, Dell has small tower servers (T150) starting at ~$610. Add a small boot SSD and some 4TB drives and it would be something that would run without trouble for 10+ years. I've used Dell servers that are over 10 years old and they are as reliable as anything I've encountered.

treitz3

This may be a really ignorant question but I'll ask it anyways. Does the laser and noise within the unit that reads the disk and transfers it to a file matter at all to the end result? In other words, is it possible for the unit that originally reads the disc to impart artifacts that, once it goes into the server, can never be taken back out?

Tom

billbillw

Emlyn wrote: »

As with analog audio the shortest signal path is best. For that purpose music streamed directly from a high quality audio device as a local player with a solid state drive might be the best option. DSD files and other high resolution files are supported this way with no loss of fidelity other than what the player's output devices are up to.

I missed this comment last night. I am going to have to strongly disagree with that statement. Digital files are digital files until they are read by the Streamer and sent to the DAC. It is not comparable to analog audio. It doesn't matter if the digital file saved on the streaming device or it is coming from 1000s of miles away on the internet. As long as the file is not corrupted, the sound should be identical. This is of course assuming a healthy network and no bottlenecks from the Server to the Streamer. In my experience, any properly configured home network with a GigE backbone and a strong AC wireless (or better) will provide plenty of bandwidth for any audio stream, even DSD.

billbillw

treitz3 wrote: »

This may be a really ignorant question but I'll ask it anyways. Does the laser and noise within the unit that reads the disk and transfers it to a file matter at all to the end result? In other words, is it possible for the unit that originally reads the disc to impart artifacts that, once it goes into the server, can never be taken back out?

Tom

No. A perfect rip is a perfect rip. This is a digital file. It doesn't pick up audible noise while ripping the data off the CD. In the early days, the CD drives were not all capable of doing clean rips. They introduced jitter and noise in a bad way. I haven't seen that as an issue since maybe 2003. Any decent modern drive will give you a perfect rip if using EAC or dBpoweramp...with the Secure Rip settings enabled.

treitz3

I believe the list below is my current streaming setup from the wall to the pre-amplifier. It is definitely not a simple setup, nor is it a short path.


Network system leading up to the Canary Pre -
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable > to mesh router
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******>
Snake River Cottonmouth - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
DC PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - iFi iPower Elite 12v PS >
Master Clock - AfterDark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference, 75ohm >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Muon Pro Filter> Lumin UX1>
Audiolund xTreme Silver Series 1.5m furutech BNC>
Pro Series ANK 5.1 Signature DAC tubed DAC with KAS Audio Primus PC>
Snake River Signature Series Hybrid (Gold/Silver/Red Copper) RCA>
IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer>
Snake River Cottonmouth (Gold/Red Copper) RCA> Canary Pre



So, could I not just have a server situated at my laptop in the office, then connect that server to the same wi-fi that feeds the Lumin or does it not work like that? I take it that the server would need to be hardwired, correct?

Tom

billbillw

heiney9 wrote: »

Properly implemented I hear zero difference between the cd and Quobuz.

IMO, Quobuz is more convenient than a computer based music server and sounds the same.

just my .02c

H9

I'm going to put this to the test. I just started a 1-month trial. Will report back...

ChrisD06

treitz3 wrote: »

I believe the list below is my current streaming setup from the wall to the pre-amplifier. It is definitely not a simple setup, nor is it a short path.


Network system leading up to the Canary Pre -
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable > to mesh router
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******>
Snake River Cottonmouth - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
DC PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - iFi iPower Elite 12v PS >
Master Clock - AfterDark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference, 75ohm >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Muon Pro Filter> Lumin UX1>
Audiolund xTreme Silver Series 1.5m furutech BNC>
Pro Series ANK 5.1 Signature DAC tubed DAC with KAS Audio Primus PC>
Snake River Signature Series Hybrid (Gold/Silver/Red Copper) RCA>
IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer>
Snake River Cottonmouth (Gold/Red Copper) RCA> Canary Pre



So, could I not just have a server situated at my laptop in the office, then connect that server to the same wi-fi that feeds the Lumin or does it not work like that? I take it that the server would need to be hardwired, correct?

Tom

You can connect it any way you like. The beauty of streaming is error-correction on the fly. Because it's sending the data itself, if you had any issues with your setup you'd hear stuttering. I use hardwiring for latency reasons.

billbillw

treitz3 wrote: »

I believe the list below is my current streaming setup from the wall to the pre-amplifier. It is definitely not a simple setup, nor is it a short path.


Network system leading up to the Canary Pre -
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable > to mesh router
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******>
Snake River Cottonmouth - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
DC PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - iFi iPower Elite 12v PS >
Master Clock - AfterDark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference, 75ohm >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Muon Pro Filter> Lumin UX1>
Audiolund xTreme Silver Series 1.5m furutech BNC>
Pro Series ANK 5.1 Signature DAC tubed DAC with KAS Audio Primus PC>
Snake River Signature Series Hybrid (Gold/Silver/Red Copper) RCA>
IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer>
Snake River Cottonmouth (Gold/Red Copper) RCA> Canary Pre



So, could I not just have a server situated at my laptop in the office, then connect that server to the same wi-fi that feeds the Lumin or does it not work like that? I take it that the server would need to be hardwired, correct?

Tom

I'm not sure of what all that means, but as long as the future file server is connected by GigE wire (or a pair) to a switch or your main router, and you don't have any funny vLANs going on, ie: all the network is managed under the same DHCP server, then yes, that should work just fine.

Clipdat

Get rid of the "IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer"

jdjohn

treitz3 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

Before you embark on this journey, there are a few things to consider and evaluate (IMHO), just from a practical perspective.

Thank you, sir. You are actually the one that started this whole rabbit hole, so I only have YOU to blame. 😀

jdjohn wrote: »

Are you prepared to maintain and index a digital music library?

Yes. I do understand that maintenance is key and that it does soak up some considerable time.

As for genres and cataloging? (is that even a word?) I'm not worried about that. Set it all up the correct way at the beginning and I should be golden. Regrets concerning that should come down the road, but I'm not too picky about genre's. I would, however, simply like to look up what it is I am looking for and find it. Fast.

Any pointers on that or is it really that simple?

You are very welcome! Happy to take the blame in this case

Yes, in theory, once you connect to a networked music server, your Lumin interface should create a digital library (you'll have to let it scan and 'build' the library, for reference). It uses that library to give search results, etc., and of course it also knows where the files are stored. Whenever new music files are added, the library has to be updated. I hesitate to use the term 'import' for this library building, since it is not importing the music files, it is only importing the metadata tags, and building the library reference. It's like adding a new card in a library's card catalog when a new book comes into inventory.

treitz3 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

album artwork can also be a pain, if that is important to you. The indexing just comes with the territory for a digital music library, so be prepared.

Hmmmm, I can't see the album cover on the Lumin now....but I would appreciate seeing it on the i-Pad or whatever device I am trying to look something up on.

Sounds like you will want the artwork, then. I read earlier that you have a lot of titles that are not 'streamable', which likely means that for some CDs, there might not be any artwork 'tagged' on the web. When the ripping occurs, the program (whichever one you choose) will typically look for artwork from a specialized databased online, along with the metadata. If it doesn't find anything, it just uses a generic icon.

When this happens, you can often go search online for the album cover image, and download it. Amazon music often shows up as a source. Or, if really desperate, remove the artwork from the CD case, scan it, crop it, and import it.

treitz3 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

Lastly, if you decide you want to rip SACDs to DSD files

The DAC I have does not currently decode or offer SACD. From what I understand, I can only playback the Redbook layer of the disc. I am okay with this and I have made peace with it because of the other things the DAC brings to the table (which is a lot!). I'll figure out what I can do with strictly SACD's later on down the road but that segment is an estimated 1/95th of my collection. It is what it is.

I thought you had an R2R DAC, so figured that was the case, but since you mentioned wanting the BEST version of a digital file, well...

The absolute easiest thing to try, just to perhaps wet your whistle, is to simply load some music files onto a USB stick, or perhaps an external USB-powered drive, plug that into the USB storage port on the back of your Lumin, and let it do its thing. It should give you a feel of how the indexing and library management aspects work, and give you an idea of any sound differences compared to a disc player.

A direct USB connection obviously by-passes your EtherRegen switch and Muon filter, so perhaps the next experiment would be to let the Lumin access music files from your laptop or desktop drives, and listen for any differences that way as well.

Using those two different types of connections might start to give you more personal direction.

Emlyn

Good points. A quick path to testing is to get a high resolution download album that's known to have outstanding audio quality, whether DSD or high resolution 24 bit PCM, put that on a USB stick or other drive, plug it in and play it from there. I don't think the Lumin has the capacity to install a built in SSD but I'm not sure about that model.

If there's no audible difference between the music on the USB drive and streaming the same album in high resolution format from Qobuz the experiment could end there. In my case I already have the 40K plus tracks in my own library in DSD format (not originally DSD) so I'm likely going in the opposite direction towards streaming for convenience and to supplement what I already have in place. It is getting harder to find CDs.