The EV Hate Thread

mrbigbluelight

audioluvr wrote: »

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

TANSTAAFL.

There ain't no such thing as a fish lollypop?

Well, I once knew a...uhm..
....well....nevermind 🤫

invalid

Once the free ride is over, I wonder how many Ev's will be selling?

machone

Willow wrote: »

https://driving.ca/auto-news/crashes/tesla-cybertruck-wont-fit-too-big-lawsuit-resale-clause

Really.....

Sounds like Ferrari rules

Jstas

audioluvr wrote: »

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

TANSTAAFL.

There ain't no such thing as a fish lollypop?

There is....if you try hard and believe in yourself.

xschop

The valet driver at the Omni this weekend held up the line because the Tesla truck had some mechanical or operating issue, or maybe he thought it wouldn't fit the space in parking garage? SMH.

Jstas

What's fascinating to me is the number of articles I've seen coming out that never see the front page of anything but the car blogs referencing which auto manufacturers have backed off their EV future plans.

Here's an article listing all the EV promises made and the timelines:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g35562831/ev-plans-automakers-timeline/

Thing is, Ford who made the most absurd claims started walking them back earlier this year. Then GM followed. So did Mercedes and Stellantis (Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep etc)

Hertz also announced that it was going to unload 20K vehicles from it's EV rental fleet too. So there's going to be a significant flood of vehicles on the used market. Might foster some more adoption but what it's really going to do is hurt sales values. The biggest concern there is the resale value of what's already out there and the lower cost to entry which means even further slowed new EV sales. Lots of people will be "upside down" on their EV car notes and those who do sell to get out of it will take a loss because the used market is going to get saturated. Everything will see a jump at first, new and used sales, but as soon as the market reaches saturation again from the people who couldn't afford the cost of entry can get into a 2nd hand EV, it's going to drop like a stone again.

That brings me to the biggest news of all. The other day VW backed off too and the interview I saw they basically said that they thought the market had reached saturation because despite what the news stories say, VW has seen a steep decline in EV sales. They didn't see it as sustainable at this time and are going to refocus efforts on more traditional gas/diesel engines as well as following Toyota's and Honda's lead on the alternative fuels. But that affects Audi too. So despite pontificating about being full EV by 2033 even as late as last January, they're backing off that, steeply.

So right now, there's a few car companies that aren't solely EV manufacturers that are holding on to the EV future with both arms. The Hyundai/Kia/Genesis plans are still moving forward, Volvo is still pushing for it and Mazda, Mitsubishi and Renault/Nissan still have aggressive plans as well. TATA out of India that owns Jaguar, Land Rover and Daewoo are still pushing aggressive EV plans as well. But all of them are HEAVILY invested in EV platforms already and they kinda need to keep pushing forward 'cause if they kill their EV lineups off, they'll lose significant market share because they won't have the product to sell.

The only one who made reasonable and sensible plans to have 40% of it's global sales coming from EVs in it's lineup is Subaru.

pitdogg2

John, I've slso read an article in the last week that stated those that jumped on the tractor trailer EV side have had their cost to operate those skyrocket. More than double the cost to operate than the diesel counterpart. Once again they are abandoning them and selling them.

Jstas

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/16/used-ev-price-crash-gets-deeper-with-premium-brand-idea-history.html

F1nut

Folks are waking up to the EV scam.

pitdogg2

F1nut wrote: »

Folks are waking up to the EV scam.

Not all of them. There's still a bunch of rabid EV'ers.

sucks2beme

pitdogg2 wrote: »

John, I've slso read an article in the last week that stated those that jumped on the tractor trailer EV side have had their cost to operate those skyrocket. More than double the cost to operate than the diesel counterpart. Once again they are abandoning them and selling them.

Truckers are taking a beating right now. Independents are dropping like flies.
If a normal rig can't make money, how's an ev version going to?

xschop

What's the weight difference between an E-tractor/trailer vs. a standard diesel?

mrbigbluelight

Soon instead of "UBUYGAS" we'll be seeing
"UBUYMYEV".
Please.
Pretty please 🛐

Jstas

Speaking of weight differences...

So, I know a guy who does driveways and walkways. He works with anything, really, but his main focus is high end houses where he does a lot of paver work.

He is currently being sued by a client because the client bought a driveway from him like 6 years ago now. The guy wanted a paver driveway that could hold his work truck, a GMC 3500 HD, 10K GVW but he tows a horse trailer with it so it's never anywhere near 10K pounds.

So they installed this paver driveway that was expensive as hell but will hold up an 8K pound vehicle and off to the side is a textured concrete driveway to mimic the paver pattern but will hold up his truck if it was fully loaded and then some. Something like 15K pound vehicles and extends all the way to the back of the property where a small horse barn is. The paver side is prettier with a sweeping path and a circle that leads up to the house and the garage at the house.

Well, the guy went and bought one of those new Hummer EVs.

Check it out: https://www.caranddriver.com/gmc/hummer-ev

Pay special attention to the curb weight.

9640 pounds.

That's curb weight, not GVW so it's an empty vehicle. Doesn't include the cargo capacity but with a 12K pound towing capacity, the GVW is probably north of 10,500 pounds.

Anyway, I told you that to tell you this, the contractor is getting sued because the genius with all the money parked his almost 10K pound EV SUV on the paver part of the driveway and has subsequently rutted and absolutely destroyed the paver side with his EV that is 1600+ pounds heavier than what the paver driveway was rated to hold. He believes that despite being in the work statement and close out invoice that the paver side was only rated for 8K pound or lighter vehicles and trailers, the paver side should have held up under the weight of the rotund Hummer EV which was not owned or even a thing when the driveway was installed.

All that expensive absurdity aside, I know that contractor through a realtor friend who helps me out with leasing property and property management and we were talking about this issue over the weekend. She's getting more and more leases for property that are citing no-gos on Tesla fast chargers in homes being rented and there's clauses in rental agreements popping up about parking heavy EVs like the Rivian R1T (8500+ pounds) or the Cybertruck (6800+ pounds) or the Hummer EV (9600+ pounds) in the rental property's driveway because of the damage the extreme weight caused to the residential driveways, most of which don't really handle vehicles heavier than 6000 pounds. Then again, most of those older driveways were laid down when it was rare to see a non-commercial vehicle heavier than 5000 pounds.

In other words, unless it's an apartment complex many rental properties are not EV friendly. So much so that she said lots of her clients down the Jersey Shore have put up weight restriction signs on driveways to warn renters that they will be liable for damages that an excessively heavy vehicle, like an EV truck, causes to the rental property's driveway if it exceeds the weight rating of the driveway.

The other thing she's getting clauses written out in rental agreements for now is electricity usage as folks with EVs who rent and "plug in" at the rental property are adding significant cost to the rental property electric bills. So folks with EVs are getting charged a surcharge for electricity use to cover the costs of charging their EVs from rental property power.

Lastly, a local FB town group has a number of residents of a more well-to-do apartment complex up in arms because they don't allow charging EVs from the condos and town homes in the complex anymore after a series of complex grid failures from overloading due to too many EVs plugged in at the same time. So they contracted with a company that installs and manages the EV charging stations you see at shopping centers and stuff. So now the complex has metered fast chargers at 3 corners of the complex, a total of 21 chargers. All managed and billed by a 3rd party and the residents are furious because now it costs them as much to charge their Teslas as it would to buy gasoline for a combustion powered car. Additionally, they are angry about taxes that are being levied that aren't there from their home charger and that's because the metered charging company is required to pay road tax just like the gas stations do.

We live in interesting times.

sucks2beme

xschop wrote: »

What's the weight difference between an E-tractor/trailer vs. a standard diesel?

Aren't there limits on truck/cargo combo weight? If so, a heavier truck due to batteries would limit
Cargo capacity. Doesn't anyone in charge ever look past the basics? So much of this stuff gets
stupid once you think about it. I guess knee jerk is all they're capable of.

Jstas

There is a national standard where over-the-road trucks like your average 18-wheeler is not allowed to carry more than 80,000 pounds without a special permit.

Your average long haul tractor weighs in between 32,000 and 41,000 pounds. That means they can only carry a trailer that weighs 39,000-48,000 pounds including cargo.

Things like dump trucks and trash trucks are limited to the same weights but they also have a weight per axle limit which is why you see drop axles on things like trash trucks and dump trucks.

Those restrictions are for any road with a U.S. Route or Interstate number that are part of the federal highway system.

Many states have local weight limits and restrictions that have higher weight limits but you usually only see them where there's very heavy industry like mining or logging and even then, it's only 120,000-140,000 pounds as the trucks aren't designed to carry higher loads than that anyway. But those limits are only for approved state routes. Most of those trucks aren't hitting highways anyway, they are going to centralized drop off points like a distribution yard or straight to a processor like a refinery or mill. The distribution yard unloads the raw materials from the heavy trucks and distributes them to road weight restrictions on to other trucks that then take them over roads to their final point of processing.

xschop

Had to lol because of the non-serendipitous predicament.

"Then again, most of those older driveways were laid down when it was rare to see a non-commercial vehicle heavier than 5000 pounds."

That was my point, as even diesel trucks are limited to their combined cargo weight on any interstate/hiway.

pitdogg2

So now the complex has metered fast chargers at 3 corners of the complex, a total of 21 chargers. All managed and billed by a 3rd party and the residents are furious because now it costs them as much to charge their Teslas as it would to buy gasoline for a combustion powered car. Additionally, they are angry about taxes that are being levied that aren't there from their home charger and that's because the metered charging company is required to pay road tax just like the gas stations

Good for the 3rd party and the road tax charges. Every home charger for EV should be the same way, PAY the damn road tax like the rest of us. Here in Illinos I believe they get "some" of the road tax at license sticker renewal time. I say "some" because I'm not sure how they determine the dollars. At least with the gas tax or meter tax you would be payng your fair share each time you get "fuel" whether it's gas or electric.

skipshot12

Speaking of lbs over the road…..

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/22/02/9134CD87-DA20-4843-90AA-AA163BD7269D/IMG_2505.MOV

skipshot12

Never mind…….

Kex

There is perhaps an argument to be made that road tax should vary by vehicle weight, as heavier vehicles cause more wear. An EV tends to be heavier than an ICE equivalent because the batteries way more than the thermal engine.

invalid

Kex wrote: »

There is perhaps an argument to be made that road tax should vary by vehicle weight, as heavier vehicles cause more wear. An EV tends to be heavier than an ICE equivalent because the batteries way more than the thermal engine.

Ev's are just a bad idea all the way around, especially if mandated.

txcoastal1

I understanding that states are going to charge mile

So depending on what state you drive in how or many miles drive you’ll get a balloon note for inspection $1200 To $6000

Jstas

txcoastal1 wrote: »

I understanding that states are going to charge mile

So depending on what state you drive in how or many miles drive you’ll get a balloon note for inspection $1200 To $6000

The only problem with that is that they'll still charge you a tax on every gallon of gas sold as well.

msg

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Soon instead of "UBUYGAS" we'll be seeing
"UBUYMYEV".

I saw a Tesla while driving home last Friday with the following license plate: "RIP OIL".

txcoastal1

Jstas wrote: »

txcoastal1 wrote: »

I understanding that states are going to charge mile

So depending on what state you drive in how or many miles drive you’ll get a balloon note for inspection $1200 To $6000

The only problem with that is that they'll still charge you a tax on every gallon of gas sold as well.

In California it’s the proposed road tax plan for EVs only

Kex

The claim: California program would tax drivers 30 cents per mile

A May 30 Instagram post (direct link, archive link) claims residents in the country’s most populous state will soon be paying significant fees to drive.

“BREAKING NEWS: California is planning on taxing citizens $0.30 per mile they drive,” reads the screenshot of a social media post.

The six-month pilot that begins in August will involve around 800 volunteers randomly split into two groups. One will be charged a flat rate of 2.8 cents per mile, which Prehoda [Road Charge Program Manager at the California Department of Transportation] described as a “revenue-neutral rate” that brings in the same amount of money as the current gas tax. The other group will be taxed based on their vehicle’s fuel efficiency. The rate decreases as fuel efficiency increases.

That rate is calculated by dividing the state's per-gallon fuel tax, which will be 59.6 cents per gallon as of July, by the EPA's fuel economy rating for a particular vehicle.

A Toyota Prius, for example, is among the most fuel-efficient midsize vehicles, getting 57 miles per gallon, according to the EPA. That would equate to a 1.05-cent tax per mile.

The EPA rates the Bugatti Chiron Super Sport as among the least fuel-efficient vehicles at 9 miles per gallon, which equates to about 6.62 cents per mile, still far short of 30 cents.

After the pilot ends in early 2025, the department will create and publish a report on its findings, Prehoda said. At that point, lawmakers would have to pass legislation for the mileage-based tax model to take effect for all California drivers.

So a Prius driver, covering the average 14,500 miles per year, would pay $152 a year.

The standard user covering 14,500 miles would pay $406 per year.

The Bugatti Chiron driver, who would likely never drive 14,500 miles, would pay $960 per year… which isn’t even the price of one tire on that car. In fact, a 2107 Chiron for sale locally has only covered 16,300 miles from new, or 2,230 per year.

Participants in the pilot program will get a refund of any gas taxes paid.

invalid

California is an example of what not to do.

Kex

Somebody has to find a way to pay for the roads since EV owners won’t pay any gas tax and there are enough of them now to matter.

I’d still prefer a weight based system to account for increased wear.

msg

Kex wrote: »

So a Prius driver, covering the average 14,500 miles per year, would pay $152 a year.

The standard user covering 14,500 miles would pay $406 per year.

The Bugatti Chiron driver, who would likely never drive 14,500 miles, would pay $960 per year… which isn’t even the price of one tire on that car. In fact, a 2107 Chiron for sale locally has only covered 16,300 miles from new, or 2,230 per year.

Participants in the pilot program will get a refund of any gas taxes paid.

Would this be in addition to personal property tax? 'cause, you know, I'm trying to maximize the number of made-up fees I have to pay. I ike to participate on all the popular stuff going on.

Is anyone going to do anything about the stupid white LED lights everywhere? That's really all I care about.