The EV Hate Thread
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What'd people say about the horseless carriage? That it would never work? Hmmm...
The horseless carriage did not have cumbersome electrolytic cells.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
What'd people say about the horseless carriage? That it would never work? Hmmm...
There were electric "horseless carriages" when "horseless carriages" first came about.
They were cumbersome, limited in range and charging them was often an exercise in futility because of the limited and rather primitive electrical grid at the time. So much so that most who had them had the ability to generate power at their location so they didn't have to rely on grid power.
There were also steam powered and petroleum based fuel powered "horseless carriages" as well. There was even a "horseless carriage" that had an engine that ran on turpentine which is an organic solvent made from refining the resin of a number of different types of pine trees. Technically, that makes it a biofuel.
The "horseless carriages" that actually won out were gasoline powered because they were comparatively inexpensive to build, simple to fix, inexpensive to maintain, reliable, efficient and expedient.
Electric "horseless carriages" were difficult to maintain, battery issues with early lead-acid batteries were prevalent and often dangerous with toxic gases being vented, fires starting and owners being shocked. They often stopped working in the middle of a trip because electrical leads would be rattled loose or dirt would get trapped in a brush gap of the motor impeding the flow of electricity. They were very limited in range, as well, with the "extreme" end of the range being less than 100 miles on a single charge. Considerably less in poor weather conditions if the electrical system wasn't shorted out completely after being wet from rain or snow.
Steam powered "horseless carriages" were expensive to build and maintain, difficult to use, as finicky as electric was or worse, difficult to fix and exceedingly dangerous as they were essentially rolling pressure cooker bombs.
The petrol based "horseless carriages" had their own shortcomings like hard, hand crank starting, dirty oil and lubrication methods, sooty and smelly exhaust and the application of power not being as comfortable and linear as an electric car or steam car.
But it wasn't the propulsion source that changed everything.
It was the advent of the electric starter for internal combustion engines that change everything and put electrics and steam out of business. The electric starter meant that engines could increase in size because you didn't need to worry if your average dude could turn it over to start it anymore. This meant better efficiency and more power in a small package...well, at least smaller than a horse! But what it really meant was that gasoline and diesel engines were now capable of driving vehicles for long distances at high speed that could handle loads far larger than what a single horse or oxen could pull in a wagon or carriage. The "horseless carriage" didn't get tired, it didn't need to stop every few miles for water and feed nor did it have to have an extended overnight stay to rest. It didn't care about weather and it didn't get old, lame or sick. The ability to start it at will without having to risk breaking an arm or something made it accessible to everyone too.
The electric starter changed everything. It changed how goods got to market, it changed how people moved about the country and it changed how the country thought of infrastructure. The distance between towns stayed the same but, got "smaller".
Electric and steam powered cars slowly disappeared from the market because they couldn't come close to matching what internal combustion could do. Often times, electric and steam powered vehicles were a lateral move from livestock to mechanical propulsion because they did not have the technology for making things efficient and small enough to not be a cumbersome difficulty. So people bought the best thing on the market, ICE engines, in droves and that drove development that the competing propulsion technologies did not enjoy.
To say in response to the EV resistance we see now, "...about the horseless carriage? That it would never work? Hmmm..." is a false equivocation. At the advent of the "horseless carriage", there was no other alternative for an individual to independently posses transportation besides a horse carriage unless they owned a train or a boat. There were no categories to the "horseless carriage". To try to equivocate the social resistance to what was a new technology at the time in the idea that you didn't need a horse anymore to the resistance to the electric cars now does not correlate.
Electric cars pre-date ICE powered cars. Electric cars still exhibit all of the shortcomings now as they did when they first came out compared to their ICE powered competition.
The current electrical market adoption and resistance is not about a new technology deserving of skepticism. It's about an expensive alternative to current convention requiring compromise and acceptance of shortcomings that directly affects the user's ability to accomplish tasks that the conventional technology is far more capable of handling.
The pushback to the "horseless carriage" was due to the paradigm change. Horses weren't necessary to do what they were doing.
The pushback to electric cars now is that they are still a novelty requiring apologist early-adopters to rationalize the shortcomings. Shortcomings that strip the efficiency and expedience of current infrastructure away in a false bid to "save the environment" through "green initiatives". Initiatives that have proven out to be just as if not more environmentally damaging than current conventions while increasing time and cost of tasks. Yet we still hear about the virtues through arguments foisted on us by arrogant, pseudo-intellectuals who are more enamored with the idea of the social superiority of themselves and their image than the actual truth and the welfare of the environment at large. They refuse to see that the slow market adoption of the current attempt at electric cars is slow and slowing not because the market participants are some how dumber and less refined than the EV champions. It's because EVs in every transportation categories except trains are a HUGE step backwards in capabilities and the VAST majority of those folks are unwilling to compromise their time and livelihood just to satiate a small and shrinking microcosm of society in general.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
That, and anyone caught hugging a tree was ostracized.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Well said, John, very well said 👍
IF there was an electric alternative device, relatively light yet robust, capable of safely holding VERY large levels of electrical energy, capable of being recharged to acceptable levels in the time it takes to, say, stop somewher and eat lunch,
that was constructed of some relatively available materials NOT DEPENDENT ON SLAVE LABOR, and at an affordable price point then I'm 1000% behind a movement towards EV's.
Until then .... Nope. 👎Sal Palooza -
@mrbigbluelight even if all those things you mentioned came true there would still be a greater expense for all the other products that are made from the bi products of refined fuels.
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I am not vehemently anti-EV (although I suffer from way too much range anxiety to get one myself, given where we live and how we use our vehicles). I am fairly anti-Tesla, though, particularly the hubris that they manifest. Their cars seem to be OK based on folks I know who own them, but their "truck"... well...
https://autos.yahoo.com/fan-boy-finally-criticizes-tesla-193000023.html -
Just about got tagged broadside tonight by two kids racing near my home. One driving a brand new 4series BMW M coupe, and the other driving a Tesla Plaid. They were each north of 80 in a 35 zone and missed me by inches….The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Ford made cars a common thing by making affordable. EV's are not.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Well to be honest none of them are today. A basic Ford F150 will run you $80k
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Which is why I still drive a now 20 year old truck and maintain it well. I believe I am sitting at 460K miles at this point and she's still running strong....and still looks good to boot!
To me, that's just way too much for trucks that seemingly have more going wrong with them than mine.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Unfortunately around my area Tom it doesn't matter how well you take care of them, the amount of salt they use in the winter time just eat them to the core.
I've got 286,000 mi on mine It's a 2003. I went to look at a 2013 supposedly in good shape with 195,000mi on it and had more cancer around the wheel wells than mine did. Practically the whole bed underneath was gone. It wasn't visible until you crawled underneath. They wanted $18,500. for it.
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nooshinjohn wrote: »Just about got tagged broadside tonight by two kids racing near my home. One driving a brand new 4series BMW M coupe, and the other driving a Tesla Plaid. They were each north of 80 in a 35 zone and missed me by inches….
Easy to see what was happening there. Both trying to make a point. Not much can accelerate as fast as a Plaid, but the M coupé would probably have better handling in the twisties.
Doing that on city streets? Endangering lives. 👎Model S Plaid:- 0-60 mph: 1.99s
- 1/4 mile: 9.23@155 mph trap speed
- 1,020 horsepower
Alea jacta est! -
Is it just me, or have all car brands gone to sh;T?
Everyone has moved production to Mexico, and
all I hear are horror stories. Cars made in the last
couple of years are showing up with all sorts of
issues. Even Toyota trucks are now blowing up.
You'd think at least the lower labor costs would get
passed along. Nope. More Dinero than ever."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
The “ More Dinero than ever” part is because everyone embraced SUV’s and pickup trucks, whether they needed them or not. Those are both more expensive than sedans or station wagons, less economical to run, pollute more, and don’t handle as well. They’re also more profitable for the manufacturers, who are happy to oblige.
Average car price is now $48,000. It was $28,000 around 2010 or so.
Not all cars have gone to sh;T however. Our newest is a 2015 Silverado. Trouble free at 105,000 miles so far, just like the 1994 K1500 Silverado before it with 215,000 miles, and the 2006 & 2007 Mercedes-Benz in between, as well as a BMW 3 series Touring.
All it takes is proper maintenance and a knowledgeable mechanic who knows what he’s doing.
Alea jacta est! -
The post covid cars are a lot different than before 2020.
Recalls are way too common. A lot of newer transmission
designs don't seem to work well. The number of cars catching
fire due to poor electrical design has skyrocketed. Smaller
turbo charged engines use oil. This is a biggie. High cylinder
pressure and low tension oil rings are causing havoc. You start
going through a quart or two between oil changes, and you
soon are looking at replacing catalytic converters. VW and Audi
turbo 2 liter engines are known for this.
Prices went up as sales volume went down during covid. They
loaded every option on vehicles and tacked on special charges.
Ford and GM don't even sell cars anymore, except Mustangs and
Camaros/Corvettes. Not enough profit. Kia and Hyndai were left
to fill that void. And we all know how their quality has faired.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
But at least we have automatic carriage return now for typing.I disabled signatures.
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Although we're still held back by the QWERTY key
layout. 😪Sal Palooza -
You ever drove a station wagon? Yea, I didn't think so!Those are both more expensive than sedans or station wagons.
Mom's don't want to break their backs bending over 12x a day hauling their kids in and out. If people wanted them they'd still be for sale they didn't sell because they drove like land yachts and they didn't corner worth a ****.
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You ever drove a station wagon? Yea, I didn't think so!
Mom's don't want to break their backs bending over 12x a day hauling their kids in and out. If people wanted them they'd still be for sale they didn't sell because they drove like land yachts and they didn't corner worth a ****.
I don’t mean to be “that guy” but I am the proud proprietor of a BMW 3 Series Sports Wagon, and I can tell you right here right now that it is one of the most efficient chassis known to man. It drives like a 3 Series sports sedan with zero compromises and yet, it offers the same fuel economy as well as all of the additional practicality. You can throw it around corners faster than any SUV including its BMW brethren.
Land yacht it is not.
Dodge tried to replicate the genre with the Magnum, but they never really understood what that meant.Alea jacta est! -
I rest my case! That is not a station wagon.You ever drove a station wagon? Yea, I didn't think so!
Mom's don't want to break their backs bending over 12x a day hauling their kids in and out. If people wanted them they'd still be for sale they didn't sell because they drove like land yachts and they didn't corner worth a ****.
I don’t mean to be “that guy” but I am the proud proprietor of a BMW 3 Series Sports Wagon, and I can tell you right here right now that it is one of the most efficient chassis known to man. It drives like a 3 Series sports sedan with zero compromises and yet, it offers the same fuel economy as well as all of the additional practicality. You can throw it around corners faster than any SUV including its BMW brethren.
Land yacht it is not.
Dodge tried to replicate the genre with the Magnum, but they never really understood what that meant.
Yes, you are that guy. Get back to me when you've drove a real station, like say a Chevy Caprice wagon or say a Ford Town and country wagon. Then and only then will you understand.
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I have a station wagon.
It's about 6 feet tall, 18.5 feet long, rolls on 32 inch tires, has about 11 inches of ground clearance, four wheel drive and will tow almost nine thousand pounds while carting around 7 people and their junk.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Are we allowed to talk about people's junk now ?7 people and their junk
Is that Vanilla friendly ?
And who are the 7 people, that might make a difference. Asking for a friend .
🫣
....okay, I'm going back to bed now.
🥱🛌😴💤💤💤Sal Palooza -
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I don't like EV or the majority of the drivers. Always thought BMW drivers were bad but stay clear of a Tesla.
Hydrogen/Hybrid is the future.
Got my license at the start of May. First thing I realized was Tesla drivers don't know how to drive. If I had a nickel every time I wentto turn right at an intersection and a Tesla driver sped up to enter it and then cranked their wheel to turn and almost smashed into me, I'd have three nickels which isn't much but it's never happened with any other driver. -
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I seen a HummerEV today, cannot imagine what that big boy weighs 😀
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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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