The curse of the Treitz, expanding a networking journey

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
    edited February 2023
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    Since I did not want to buy another filter down the road, I got the Pro version. The 1G capability may not mean much to me now but may in the very near future. This is all advancing pretty rapidly, so I got it to be somewhat future proof, as well as one key description.

    That description on their website was that the Muon Pro, "delivers an even higher level of performance". What that difference is compared to the Muon is yet to be seen (never did a direct A/B comparison) but for me, the cost difference between the Muon and the Muon Pro was negligible in the whole grand scheme of things (to me), so I sprung for the Pro.

    @GlennDog - Trey would actually know more about the Lampizator than I do. Finding information about my actual model/unit is like finding a needle in a haystack. I read somewhere that it may even be a chip less DAC. I do not believe that it is an R2R DAC.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    So when I had reached out to lampizator for more information, they didn't provide to much detail. Ultimately, from what I gathered, this unit is back when lampizator took existing dac chips and developed power supplies for them and modified certain parts.

    The boards inside are labeled EXD which is a different dac manufacture. Lampizator confirmed this is a production lampizator unit.

    I do know this dac can scale up to dsd capabilities with the proper components so that would lend me to believe it is a delta sigma.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
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    The Gustard R26 I have on loan from Rich is an R2R dac that can scale up to DSD. Not sure if that is a good way to tell if it's R2R
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    It is vague but I don't believe that's correct.

    The r26 gustard appears to be two dacs in one, see this screen shot from their site

    Pcm is R2r but dsd is separate over usb

    vzc2qs6n2k1s.jpg
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
    edited February 2023
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    That’s why the GUSTARD R26 adopts a R-2R ladder DAC to convert the digital signal to analog signal by switching resistors' array. Besides, the R26 utilizes a native 1 Bit DSD DAC, supporting DSD 512 (via USB) and DSD1024 (via IIS). The DSD stream is decoded by the independent 1 Bit DSD DAC without DSD to PCM converting.

    I would be curious to know more as I have never seen a R2r work with dsd but I definitely haven't seen every dac out there!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
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    Is the networking journey coming to an end with the Auralic G2 up for sale?
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    He is going to 8 tracks! Crazy sob
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    jbreezy5 wrote: »
    Is the networking journey coming to an end with the Auralic G2 up for sale?

    No way man, I am actually expanding on it but I am choosing to go a different direction. Just need to wait for everything I ordered to come in. More to come later.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
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    VR3 wrote: »
    He is going to 8 tracks! Crazy sob
    treitz3 wrote: »
    jbreezy5 wrote: »
    Is the networking journey coming to an end with the Auralic G2 up for sale?

    No way man, I am actually expanding on it but I am choosing to go a different direction. Just need to wait for everything I ordered to come in. More to come later.

    Tom

    Lmk if you’re looking for an EQ for that 8-track. I’ll keep an eye out for ya. 😉
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    VR3 wrote: »
    I do know this dac can scale up to dsd capabilities with the proper components so that would lend me to believe it is a delta sigma.

    That doesn't sound right. Only reason being is that the low pass filters are required (AFAIK) for the DS.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    The good news is lampizator is incredibly unhelpful, so we can only speculate 🚀
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,261
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    Picked up a CM2000 today locally for a steal and the new mesh system is wizzing away. Not sure I’m gonna “audiophile” my network but upgrades are fun anyways. Maybe a good Ethernet from my mesh router to the Lumin will be a good idea. Any recommendations on a decent but not crazy expensive cord. Let’s say 150 cap for 2m
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    Linear power supplies are the ticket with high quality cabling

    Congrats!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    stangman67 wrote: »
    Any recommendations on a decent but not crazy expensive cord. Let’s say 150 cap for 2m

    While I have not used one, a new Audioquest Cinnamon is within your price range for the length specified. You have to get 3 meters though. As you move up most lines, the standard E cable length becomes 1.5 meters, FWIW. This greatly opens up your options.

    Personally, I would try to keep things at 1.5 meter intervals. (I.E. 1.5, 3, 6, 7.5, etc...)

    As you have most likely read, I went from a standard, yellow CAT5 to a cheap, $14 CAT8 cable. That was a significant enough jump for me to make the extreme leap I have, so maybe you can try that?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089SX7WYM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I sent a pair down to TroyD's place for him to try out on his rig and his feedback was, and I quote, "made a pretty substantial difference....in terms of dimensionality and air!". Rebelsoul had the same observations I had with mine (using the same cable) but Jody tried it on his rig and he had mixed results, albeit using a 30' run (which picks up noise along that kind of length). You may want to try a cheaper cable to see what kind of a difference it makes before splurging on a more expensive cable, FWIW. That call would be left up to you.

    It was enough of a difference to me that I decided not to play around and as you may know, I have gone balls to the wall with my network audio journey. Just that cheap, $14 cable I had sitting around in the closet for a year made that much of a difference to me.

    Tom


    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    Audiolund is very hard to beat!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    Just keep in mind, that if you do order Audiolund (great cables IMO)? The amount is in Singapore dollars. So, right now, you can knock off about 25% due to the conversion rates. They have many different levels that you can choose from (See below).

    a0bjlqyh6mux.png

    https://audiolund.com/

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,261
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    Thanks for the insight guys. I’m gonna go ahead and pick up a 3M cinnamon cable. Cheap enough I won’t feel bad spending a wad of money on a Ethernet cable (I believe you all about the improvements but I’m still skeptical) but expensive enough I won’t keep playing the what-if game. I have other spots in my system to spend big money before I geek out too much on network stuff 🤓
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,112
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    after you connect the U2 MINI
    your ICs will have to be top notch to notice an improvement (IMHO)

    it’s THAT GOOD

    You’re in for a treat
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    Don't forget the s booster for the mini! Huge improvement there
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited February 2023
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    This thread convinces me that old people have too much money. And before seeing this I thought I was old and had too much money. Pay for fiber internet and a great dac. It's really hard to get a short run of ethernet to be a problem worth solving.
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,261
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    Hey I’m not old. Jerk!
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    GlennDog wrote: »
    after you connect the U2 MINI <snip>

    Who has the U2 mini? (or whom are you referring too, talking too?)

    @On3s&amp;Z3r0s - Hello and welcome back to Club Polk. It's not a matter of having too much money. Trey actually saved money by going with fiber and he already had the DAC. Oh, and he isn't that old either (far from it). I am but that's a different story.

    This is our hobby. We like what we like and there is nothing ever wrong with trying to extract every ounce possible out of our systems. Some people do it with boats, some with cars, some with women. Priorities. Everyone has a different set. If we were all the same, the world would be quite boring.

    This thread is about extracting what we can out of our own network journey.....and sharing those experiences along the way.

    Tom


    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,261
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    Tom, I have the U2 Mini on the way
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
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    Ah, congratulations! I must have missed that post. Thanks for clarifying.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • On3s&amp;Z3r0s
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    @treitz3 sorry, I should have paid more attention to where the thread ended up. I saw the network filter on the first page and thought it was more specifically about stuff that happened on twisted pair. I gotta give it to you, brother. Boats, cars, wires, and women. All the same to us. Never change, Club Polk.
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,261
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    The problem with me is a like cars, boats, and stereos!
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
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    VR3 wrote: »
    That’s why the GUSTARD R26 adopts a R-2R ladder DAC to convert the digital signal to analog signal by switching resistors' array. Besides, the R26 utilizes a native 1 Bit DSD DAC, supporting DSD 512 (via USB) and DSD1024 (via IIS). The DSD stream is decoded by the independent 1 Bit DSD DAC without DSD to PCM converting.

    I would be curious to know more as I have never seen a R2r work with dsd but I definitely haven't seen every dac out there!

    I have no idea how it does it but, it sounds darn good, especially for $1500. Its a bit more fwd sounding vs the Boarder Patrol se-i but, nothing over the top on that. I am very suprised with this unit so far. I have not tried out its ability to stream internally, and the directions are not that great, especially with all the extras it does. Rich also gave a Singer unit to try out with it. That also made a sound difference but, I am not thinking it sounds better then my Innuos usb out into a w4s recovery, into the R26 vs the Innuos usb to the singer, converting into IIs to the R26.

    Either way for its price range, I see why people like it. It is completely different sounding from the Boarder Patrol se-i. Granted, the Border Patrol does not do anything above 96k but, the darn thing is very musical sounding.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,671
    edited February 2023
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    <snip> I saw the network filter on the first page and thought it was more specifically about stuff that happened on twisted pair.<snip>

    Okay, you have my curiosity going here. What happened?

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,316
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    erniejade wrote: »
    VR3 wrote: »
    That’s why the GUSTARD R26 adopts a R-2R ladder DAC to convert the digital signal to analog signal by switching resistors' array. Besides, the R26 utilizes a native 1 Bit DSD DAC, supporting DSD 512 (via USB) and DSD1024 (via IIS). The DSD stream is decoded by the independent 1 Bit DSD DAC without DSD to PCM converting.

    I would be curious to know more as I have never seen a R2r work with dsd but I definitely haven't seen every dac out there!

    I have no idea how it does it but, it sounds darn good, especially for $1500. Its a bit more fwd sounding vs the Boarder Patrol se-i but, nothing over the top on that. I am very suprised with this unit so far. I have not tried out its ability to stream internally, and the directions are not that great, especially with all the extras it does. Rich also gave a Singer unit to try out with it. That also made a sound difference but, I am not thinking it sounds better then my Innuos usb out into a w4s recovery, into the R26 vs the Innuos usb to the singer, converting into IIs to the R26.

    Either way for its price range, I see why people like it. It is completely different sounding from the Boarder Patrol se-i. Granted, the Border Patrol does not do anything above 96k but, the darn thing is very musical sounding.

    For the price tag, that gustard dac looks very well made, no argument there. I've seen far more expensive dacs look alot less impressive under the hood
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.