Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish

plastic_avatar

Dr_Wu wrote: »

Didn't see anything about installing hurricane nuts and machine screws in place of wood screws into the baffles. The more you are in and out of the cabinets, the more important this becomes.

I think you need to also make sure all the cabinet seams are well-sealed.

If you need to replace driver gaskets, Armacell is good stuff.

You are correct! I forgot about the nuts/screws! I didn't think about the benefit of repeated use, either.

Seams = something else that I forgot about. Added to the list!

...think about building the cable yourself with whatever speaker wire you'd like (match your speaker cables, ideally), and terminate it with Neutrik SpeakOns. You'll need to install the female Neutriks in the cup housing the binding posts. Good time to think about replacing the posts, too, and someone here used to make beautiful plates pre-drilled for all of this. Knowing how to install the SpeakOns will come in handy if/when you get to assembling a Dreadnaught.

Great suggestions.

I'll add those to the list, too.

I think removing Dynamat from the inside of the cabinets will be much harder than you anticipate. If you insist on experimenting with more dampening than recommended above by xchop, consider SonicBarrier (sp?) - relatively inexpensive, easy to cut into pieces, install, and remove

It wasn't terrible on my Monitors or the GE console (I had to reposition some panels). The old wood and ply both gave up the glue easier than a really good surface. I used a Dynamat clone, too. So maybe its glue was weaker, too.

Oh, I'll definitely do the Dynamat just to needle at xchop [laughs]. I mean, if you can't have a little good-natured fun with someone who you respect and who helps you, then that's not someone you'd be friends with

joebass3

plastic_avatar wrote: »

Crossovers

O.k., this is tricky. I HATE THE SONICRAFT WEBSITE!!! G/god(s), it is an abomination. It's a crime against design and usability. We hates it, precious!

[cough, cough]

- Sonic caps seems to be the de facto choice for upgrading these crossovers (unless you're like this guy who upgrades SRS models like money is no object... and his work is AMAZING!!!). I won't use Daytons for this build. I did in my Monitors, and I think I hear where they're letting me down. Honestly, for the money, I think they're great. The imaging and soundstage is staggering on some mixes. But... there's a little something missing in the upper midrange/lower treble.

Are there other, cost-comparable and sound-equivalent options anyone likes better?

- How about the resistors? Where to order what brands for this build? What do people have experience with?

- That tweeter protection circuit. Some people insist it should be left in, but most seem to want it out. What do you think?

ClarityCap capacitors are very popular and will be cheaper than Sonic caps. Mills resistors are what most use.

Looks like Partsconnexion.com is currently having a sale. I used them when I did my 1C's.

plastic_avatar

joebass3 wrote: »

ClarityCap capacitors are very popular and will be cheaper than Sonic caps. Mills resistors are what most use.

Looks like Partsconnexion.com is currently having a sale. I used them when I did my 1C's.

Score!

I'll go check them out later tonight!

Thank you, thank you

- Did you keep the tweeter protection circuit?

- If it's not too much for you to dig up, could you post the list of exactly which caps and resistors you bought (brand, model, etc.)? That way it's another complete bit in the thread I can add to the summary version!

Navy_Goat

plastic_avatar wrote: »

AND! It's also a project my oldest is going to help with! She'll be a senior next year, so it's a very meaningful project for me.

This is Awesome! My youngest is a HS Junior this year too. She has been getting more and more into music over the last 18 months or so. Perusing records shops with her in Annapolis, Baltimore and DC has been an unexpected gift to me. It has been awesome to share this hobby with her.

Very cool that you will be sharing the experience with your daughter. In that case, do every mod under the sun. The more the marrier!

Navy_Goat

plastic_avatar wrote: »

- Did you keep the tweeter protection circuit?

- If it's not too much for you to dig up, could you post the list of exactly which caps and resistors you bought (brand, model, etc.)? That way it's another complete bit in the thread I can add to the summary version!

Speaking for myself I replaced the polyswitch with a .47 ohm mills resistor.

My 1C mod list:
4.4 and 12 uF caps - Sonic Craft
20 uF caps - Clarity PX
Mills resistors - Sonic Craft
Replace seals if needed - Already have Armacell on hand
H-Nuts - PE
Machine Screws - McMaster Carr
RD0194 - Midwest Speaker Repair

Link here: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/189673/sda-1c-upgrade-time/p1

I have a similar thread up on AK that I think I may have included links to each product. I can dig that up if you are interested.

pitdogg2

I use sound-absorbing foam materials to actually absorb sound, or trap it, or diminish its reflections, so those off-timed echoes do not influence the excitation of the air from a mouth to the mic.

That is exactly what the Blackhole 5 and Sonic Barrier do as well as the dacron rolls Polk used. If you apply either BH/SB you still use the factory polyfil/Dacron. Trust me when I say that IF you ignore this and apply the dynamat extreme to the inside of the box, removing it will be EXTREMELY frustrating. I've had the pleasure of removing it from a project and the left behind buytl stuff is insanely sticky and it will not all come out.
It will then collect on the dacron rolls and muck them up good.
The inside of the cabinet will start to look like the fuzzy interior of a pimps car.

plastic_avatar

pitdogg2 wrote: »

If you apply either BH/SB you still use the factory polyfil/Dacron. Trust me when I say that IF you ignore this and apply the dynamat extreme to the inside of the box, removing it will be EXTREMELY frustrating. I've had the pleasure of removing it from a project and the left behind buytl stuff is insanely sticky and it will not all come out.

Gotcha.

I will leave the existing material when I tweak.

The stuff I use isn't the Extreme version. It's this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZKPVHCB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not too extreme.

pitdogg2

That's the same type of stuff different name. Works great on the speaker baskets and passive baskets.

plastic_avatar

Navy_Goat wrote: »

Speaking for myself I replaced the polyswitch with a .47 ohm mills resistor.

My 1C mod list:
4.4 and 12 uF caps - Sonic Craft
20 uF caps - Clarity PX
Mills resistors - Sonic Craft
Replace seals if needed - Already have Armacell on hand
H-Nuts - PE
Machine Screws - McMaster Carr

Link here:

HOW DID I MISS YOUR THREAD???

Out of all the posts I read, I missed yours?!

Excellent info!

Navy_Goat wrote: »

I have a similar thread up on AK that I think I may have included links to each product. I can dig that up if you are interested.

Absolutely!

This makes me very happy

Thank you!

Toolfan66

Okay, I have to ask, what is Wuhan silk domes, this has to be something I have missed, Some sort of China Tweeter??

Edit: I am guessing these. If you swap out the TL's for SD's are they technically SDA's ? It would definitely take away from them being a TL version..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124980977878?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=237207&meid=9b2f9aacce3e49689cb363be9abfe86b&pid=101195&rk=4&rkt=12&sd=125155077217&itm=124980977878&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed&brand=Unbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum:1249809778789b2f9aacce3e49689cb363be9abfe86b|enc:AQAGAAACIKMmI1e0mQD2XGaMgrXkTC6dJQV6m%2FjYwCj6fcaIAcpq9aCXzStqviGDARQwW0CyUz8V8Umgr9ZUDinG9f5LexOSKCc6UarLKBufiNvtpWvoCGpM7UMYhjTT%2FfWlM%2F8W4bH98UyStWXjpBkZm2C1cos%2FBDI8BdhiDj128UvNhPdbhDZknndbQlTGku2yyFiE8qVRYq%2FH%2BPudvQOYc%2FwdGaPDzFMXgVNaqff17vWbwf9NDoNI7oEOeEnsj%2BDS67S0rREmpbOKDdrNk6ebV6Dges6fD2RY5qwDeYctaTyv%2B5LsHaCrf0yIhKQ2Nx6WtlCUE8g0eDsAumUifdzcrM1%2FbTe2Jg6HGagZB%2FTPsuCeJL1fS%2BZst3dMUmCXKpsJwMGpkeCub%2FLNpnquaa0OLJL%2B%2Bz3hGize5rWDEGha5Ik3cPN88hl8KP0%2FkvaAKkZEqt%2FcaA8f5OMlQ4nw1xH7RNnL7GbvbKcFtlyzoir2dK8tigEoqxckVDDCBZwisj3r0r83dhABtlpEcaxQR1bpOcos3dO6k1KnFiqfCyY3A%2FtFunHmu5yfmax8enlJTJkumfFDQFBexQgnrQ2L6Xur6%2F5Lulu7rHf4wOvh5GBbx1bBsTA9h8Jki9eaP6wiIyEduQKF25d%2FrzW5cyms0%2Fmdg%2F%2FnDFqdriyL5hho%2FtcdeXmnBWEeaM8m1oAxy6j1CU5vDjHNGdi%2Bj658gAgLPUO%2B8foSzwE%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675

Hansvelton

Crazy as this sounds. I almost purchased this exact pair.

We live in the same general "area" obviously.
Uh, I decided not to, but good luck!
The pics versus the reality, was a bit apart as you found.

We look at the Xmas lights every year in this little "town"!

Gardenstater

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Okay, I have to ask, what is Wuhan silk domes, this has to be something I have missed, Some sort of China Tweeter??

Edit: I am guessing these. If you swap out the TL's for SD's are they technically SDA's ? It would definitely take away from them being a TL version..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124980977878?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=237207&meid=9b2f9aacce3e49689cb363be9abfe86b&pid=101195&rk=4&rkt=12&sd=125155077217&itm=124980977878&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed&brand=Unbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum:1249809778789b2f9aacce3e49689cb363be9abfe86b|enc:AQAGAAACIKMmI1e0mQD2XGaMgrXkTC6dJQV6m%2FjYwCj6fcaIAcpq9aCXzStqviGDARQwW0CyUz8V8Umgr9ZUDinG9f5LexOSKCc6UarLKBufiNvtpWvoCGpM7UMYhjTT%2FfWlM%2F8W4bH98UyStWXjpBkZm2C1cos%2FBDI8BdhiDj128UvNhPdbhDZknndbQlTGku2yyFiE8qVRYq%2FH%2BPudvQOYc%2FwdGaPDzFMXgVNaqff17vWbwf9NDoNI7oEOeEnsj%2BDS67S0rREmpbOKDdrNk6ebV6Dges6fD2RY5qwDeYctaTyv%2B5LsHaCrf0yIhKQ2Nx6WtlCUE8g0eDsAumUifdzcrM1%2FbTe2Jg6HGagZB%2FTPsuCeJL1fS%2BZst3dMUmCXKpsJwMGpkeCub%2FLNpnquaa0OLJL%2B%2Bz3hGize5rWDEGha5Ik3cPN88hl8KP0%2FkvaAKkZEqt%2FcaA8f5OMlQ4nw1xH7RNnL7GbvbKcFtlyzoir2dK8tigEoqxckVDDCBZwisj3r0r83dhABtlpEcaxQR1bpOcos3dO6k1KnFiqfCyY3A%2FtFunHmu5yfmax8enlJTJkumfFDQFBexQgnrQ2L6Xur6%2F5Lulu7rHf4wOvh5GBbx1bBsTA9h8Jki9eaP6wiIyEduQKF25d%2FrzW5cyms0%2Fmdg%2F%2FnDFqdriyL5hho%2FtcdeXmnBWEeaM8m1oAxy6j1CU5vDjHNGdi%2Bj658gAgLPUO%2B8foSzwE%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675

I dunno but isn't the RDO-198-1 actually a doped silk dome tweeter designed by Polk to be compatible in freq. response vs spl and sensitivity with the SL3000, which is a trilaminate?

I actually sent that eBay seller the following question. It will be interesting to see if I get an answer:

Hello!

What are the DC Resistance (Re) and Inductance at freq. (Le) values for these silk domes please?

By the way, those 3 Polk tweeter models you say these domes are compatible with are actually 5.6 Ohm (not 8 Ohm) nominal impedance tweeters.

Thank you.

xschop

Those come nowhere near RD0198 specs lol. Maybe 194's. The wuhan domes are DCR 6.5-6.7 and Kapton voice coil formers.

Maybe the Great Pontificus Maximus will chime in...

Toolfan66

I didn’t look at any of the specs, I was just guessing what a wuhan dome was.

Gardenstater

I've been checking some of the Wuhan domes and they don't really give DCR or Le or voice coil former material or vc wire types (round, square, Alum, Cu, CCA etc.). So D- grade on specs. But once you purchase one and find out what they are like xschop and Tony M and vsta88 have done, it should be the same moving forward hopefully. Kapton is a pretty good VC former material for tweeters because it doesn't induce any eddy currents that can serve as an electromagnetic brake on the response and have a higher mechanical Q, lower mechanical resistance. Peerless VC formers were aluminum. Don't know about the other ones........



<end pontificate>

F1nut

Kapton doesn't like humidity. Bad choice.

xschop

Toolfan66 wrote: »

I didn’t look at any of the specs, I was just guessing what a wuhan dome was.

I was laughing at the ebay seller referring to them as a replacement for RD0198's.

xschop

F1nut wrote: »

Kapton doesn't like humidity. Bad choice.

I'll remember not to take my FrankenPolks to the pool.

plastic_avatar

Caps, resistors, and wires!




Happy President's Day, nerds!

Or Monday. I mean, whatever. Right?

Questions:

- Hey. About the polyswitch removal... Is this the preferred solution? Still protected, but no sound issues?

- Having a hard time finding cap combos I like (or are in stock).

How much a difference do you think there would be between the best Daytons I used in my Monitors vs. Clarity Caps, Jantzens, or some other brand?

I'm down for Sonicaps for the uppers, they're in stock. I just don't know what options to have if I can't get the others in a respected option.

- I'm curious from the 1c owners, If you haven't already posted your combo of parts on your crossover upgrades, could you? I'd love to see what other people used.

I'm clearing up space in the basement. I'll have room to breather and work on these things this week.

Now I need to figure out what to do with the sad pair of 5B sitting down there... Give them away? Upgrade the tweeters when I do the 1c's? Fix the crossovers when I do the 1c's? Stuff the 6.5 from my RTi10 in them to see how it sounds? Put them in project time out?

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

I might ask @xschop to go for a swim... Looking to join the local University rec center this week.

joebass3

Here you go

Gardenstater

Each question could be a separate thread ha ha.

Anyway, regarding the polyswitches and DarqueKnight's article, this seems to be the relevant section:



You might like it better with just a jumper wire (especially if you have the RXE135) vs the appropriate resistor to match whichever of those 3 polyswitches you may happen to have in your XO. Confusing.

If it were me, I would probably make up a spreadsheet with the different capacitor choices and prices and website. There aren't really too many choices available to you. Jantzen....which ones? There's so many different levels and they tend to all be very pricey. Humblehomadehifi.com is one person's opinions but it is someone who tests an awful lot of capacitors. I love my Sonicraft modded crossovers but that's all I have tried and he rates the ClarityCap CSA 250V higher than Sonicaps 200V and they are definitely more affordable, but larger I believe. Lots of people use the ClarityCap PX for the low pass circuits to save money on those larger capacitors. I really don't know.

Gardenstater

If you go with a 20uf ClarityCap PX instead of (2) 10uF PX in parallel like @joebass3 , make sure that you have enough room on the PCB. Same length apparently but larger width. They are oval shaped. ClarityCap website doesn't even show the 20uF so they might not make them anymore. Madisound has this:



https://www.partsconnexion.com/CLARITY-77113.html

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/px-cap-250vdc/claritycap-20-mfd-px-range-polypropylene-caps/

joebass3

Gardenstater wrote: »

If you go with a 20uf ClarityCap PX instead of (2) 10uF PX in parallel like @joebass3 , make sure that you have enough room on the PCB. Same length apparently but larger width.

The 10uF PX was a fairly tight fit. I doubt I could have squeezed the 20 in.

plastic_avatar

Thank you, @joebass3!

That makes it easy to go Clarity for the caps, if I don't mix/match or win the lottery [crosses fingers... c'mon, lottery!].

plastic_avatar

Deus Ex

Between these combos, thoughts on pros/cons, any comparison experiences?


I know the band

https://www.soniccraft.com/shopping_cart.php?osCsid=27dd3f3117e90cbff08062168327a1e3

All Sonicaps!

$500

Backstage pass

https://www.soniccraft.com/shopping_cart.php?osCsid=27dd3f3117e90cbff08062168327a1e3

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=cart

4.4 and 12 = Sonicap Gen I

20 and 40 (double 20's to make 40) = Clarity CSA

$320

Front row seats

https://www.soniccraft.com/shopping_cart.php?osCsid=27dd3f3117e90cbff08062168327a1e3

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=cart

4.4 and 12 = Sonicap Gen I

20 and 40 (double 20's to make 40) = Clarity PX

$255

Assigned seating off general admission grounds

https://www.partsconnexion.com/cgi-bin/sc/order.cgi?storeid=*20b7b4534d0a875b77f1157d6bb78322a865&function=show

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=cart

4.4 (double 2.2's to make 4.4) and 12 = Clarity CSA

20 and 40 (double 20's to make 40) = Clarity CSA

$227

First row balcony

https://www.partsconnexion.com/cgi-bin/sc/order.cgi?storeid=*20b7b4534d0a875b77f1157d6bb78322a865&function=show

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=cart

4.4 (double 2.2's to make 4.4) and 12 = Clarity CSA

20 and 40 (double 20's to make 40) = Clarity PX

$160

Which is the one that is most worth it... Price + value/gains...

[I rounded up, so everything is a smidge more than actual. No shipping factored. Just getting a ballpark based on everyone's suggestions. Staying away from Dayton because of the upper mid gap in my Monitors.]

Hansvelton

I think a lot depends on what your long term plan is. Keep them for many years?

Keep them a while then get rid of them? Keep them forever?

Just remember, everything you invest, can at times, be hard to recoup, on Ebay or Craigs list, if you go the "try them a while, then move on" route.

To those in the know, we all get what redoing a crossover entails and the WHY, more importantly. Joe blow on the corner on craigs list or ebay, has no appreciation of crossover mods and some guys, LIKE the stuff to be Bone Stock, as they can make their own improvements and ideas and are assured nothing is messed up.

I have seen a few "modded" crossovers that were literally nightmares of mess and confusion. Some, as I am sure you will do, are great looing and WORK great.!

joebass3

No need to double the 20's, there is room on the board for the 40.

If you decide to go with Clarity PX and CSA, my parts list above should be correct. Sale looks to be over though.

Gardenstater

The 40uf ClarityCap PX is currently $24.60 at partsconnexion and that is what @joebass3 did. If you went with (2) 20uF in parallel that would cost you $30.62. No neeed.

https://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitors-film-claritycap-px-250vdc-series.html

PS - Even with the currently discounted pricing at partsconnexion (damn they were on sale yest. when I checked!), the 40uF is 25% higher in price compared to what joebass3 paid! Coviden economics yay!! Our esteemed Federal Reserve says the PCI is around +7.5% but somehow all the things I am buying every day are more like +25% to +50% and more.

PPS - Humblehomadehifi rates the ClarityCap CSA higher than Sonicaps Gen I. Is he wrong or right? Damned if I know. You know what they say about opinions and everyone's ears are different.


ClarityCap CSA 250V - 9
Sonicap Gen I 200V - 8.5
ClarityCap PX 250V - 7.5

plastic_avatar

joebass3 wrote: »

Sale looks to be over though.

Yeah =(

That's o.k.

My first full paycheck at the new job isn't until this Friday, so I had to wait. I thought it was this past Friday [sniffle].

plastic_avatar

Gardenstater wrote: »

The 40uf ClarityCap PX is currently $24.60 at partsconnexion and that is what @joebass3 did. If you went with (2) 20uF in parallel that would cost you $30.62.

I did all that post from my phone, in bed, trying my damnedest to get it all right. Chalk that up to 'I didn't see the 40 whilst switching between the 3 sites.'

PS - Even with the currently discounted pricing at partsconnexion, the 40uF is 25% higher in price compared to what joebass3 paid! Coviden economics yay!! Our esteemed Federal Reserve says the PCI is around +7.5% but somehow all the things I am buying every day are more like +25% to +50% and more.

HOLY S**TBALLS, I know! My new job, with a 15% raise over my old job, before Pandemic Unemployment, is like having my old paycheck or worse =[

Trips to Aldi are more expensive now. EVERYTHING IS! Thanks, decentralized, global shipping-dependent goods and services =\