Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish

xschop

Good attention to detail. You are brave for covering those terminals. Looks very easy to cause a short.

Gardenstater

Very methodical. Noting a couple things. I followed Rob's lead and cut away the vestigial tabs that protrude into the windows. I didn't put foam by the surround edge window perimeter like you did but I did do the area between the window and the spider. If you look at it it bears some resemblance to a reflective satellite dish lol. I feel it is important. Your pics don't show the angle to see if you did that or not.

Nice work!

pitdogg2

I'd remove it from the terminals.

plastic_avatar

On the terminals:

I'll take it off. In my haze last night I thought 'the rubber will protect it, slap it on'. Thanks for saving me guys!

Cutting the tabs:

That's part of the 'I'll leave those there because I don't want to slip and Dremel tf outta something...' process.

That's part of why I don't have 100% coverage on the outside (my shakiness, and I decided I want to do as much as possible on my own). I honestly think, between the foam and the extra mass all around from the rubber, what little basket peeks through won't be an audible issue to me.

Spider foam:

Yep. I put it down there, too.

I debated on filling in the lip at the top. I cut some different width strips and double-checked to make sure the clearance was right (and that it didn't touch the surround). I think I'm going to throw it in the M5 box, to give it a listen before I move on to the other 7.

F1nut

This thread is an excellent example of what not to do.

plastic_avatar

I make mistakes, but I learn.

I try things out of left field, but I play on a team.

I genuinely appreciate each and every person who contributes to making me better, and I thank them.

Now, before I parent and adult after work, I'm gonna go test my spare Wuhan and plasti-plugged midwoofer, while admiring how damn sexy this Monitor 5 mule looks right now.

xschop

Great looking hybrids.

audioluvr

They look like Madonna's speakers now.

plastic_avatar

50 points, House audioluvr.

plastic_avatar

For fellow n00b modders, here's what damped vs. naked baskets sound like.

https://youtu.be/-K_Oq6u6XQo

https://youtu.be/dE8I4iYIXfE

F1nut

I can hear that's not Dynamat Xtreme, which results in a more solid thunk, but it's obviously better than nothing.

plastic_avatar

These are now thunkier than my fancy Etons' baskets, so I'll take it as an improvement over stock

I thought about adding a layer of wrap behind the foam on the mids, but thought it might be overkill, even for me...

When they're put in with the metal braces and hurricane nuts/bolts, that should deaden the baskets even more.

They'll be loads better than stock.

Next, I need to foam 7 of the 8 mids.

Takes time for a guy with shaky hands, but I'll get it done the coning week so I can put the phase plugs in next! Woohoo!

Gardenstater

Do the *thunk* test again when you foam the inside of the MW's. Don't forget the space near the spider. It's like a satellite dish lol.

I thought the passives where you did the inside of the spokes with Noico(?) sounded quite a bit lower freq. than the MWs.

Edit - I see it isn't Noico https://noico.info/products/noico-black-80-mil-2-mm-10-sqft-0-9-sqm-car-sound-deadening-mat/

F1nut

Those speakers will be worth nothing after being butchered and it's all documented here. Too funny!

skipshot12

Definitely a difference from non damped & damped.

Funny thing is I’m doing the same on my passive…
Had my wife take a video of how it rings with no damping.
Just took a video today of how it sounds with the spokes damped.
Will take a video after the flat back side is damped.
Was having the wife help for the very same reason, to post so others can hear the difference.

Good job on the dampening.
I can already hear the difference this made on my left speaker.

Thanks to all that have come before….

plastic_avatar

Gardenstater: I used Noico in my Monitor 12. The aluminum is thicker than the pipe wrap, and the rubber might be a hair thicker. It's definitely stiffer than the pipe wrap.

Cost and malleability means the pipe wrap wins for this project.

---

skipshot12: Glad it's working for you! I can't wait to get my speakers put together and plugged in. But I still have a week or two.

Today I tested thunks between midwoofers with aluminum wrap on the outside, outside and inside, outside and foam inside. The thunk was all the same. It's the circular part of the basket where it mounts to the cabinet. It rings at a higher pitch than the passives because of size. Mounted, with pressure holding the vibration of the ring to a minimum, it's a much duller thunk all around.

---

I told my wife today, unless I get a screaming deal on some of the big SDAs next year, my plan is to move the Monitor 12's to a good home, find a pair of Legacy Focus 1st gen, and be happy with everything I did on the 1C as a companion pair to something completely different.

Very grateful to everyone here for their trailblazing.

Now I need a replacement mw for my 5B, so I can mat, foam, plug, and mod to finish ruining dafuq outta them, too.

invalid

Why are we foaming the inside of the mw's, it shouldn't ring if the Dynamat extreme is properly applied.

Gardenstater

Reduction in backwave reflections hitting the cone causing time delayed out of phase interference distortions of the midrange. So much more clarity you'll never go back.

F1nut

invalid wrote: »

Why are we foaming the inside of the mw's, it shouldn't ring if the Dynamat extreme is properly applied.

Because someone is too damn cheap to buy BH5 and do it right.

Gardenstater

F1nut wrote: »

invalid wrote: »

Why are we foaming the inside of the mw's, it shouldn't ring if the Dynamat extreme is properly applied.

Because someone is too damn cheap to buy BH5 and do it right.

I installed the BH5 over a year and a half ago and it was very beneficial. BH5 is great but it only helps with the backwave of the midwoofer that has escaped through the basket windows and is now in the space of the ENCLOSURE. The foam inside the basket works on the reflections that are inside the BASKET, that would be reflected back at the cone and cause audible distortion and lack of clarity. If you drew a Venn Diagram of the two there would basically be no intersection of the two circles. The foam inside the baskets took my speakers to a whole nother level that BH5 couldn't possibly accomplish.

I would never advise anyone to do this instead of BH5. That does not compute.

xschop

^^^ Bingo ^^^

F1nut

Sorry, ain't buying it.

xschop

Don't knock it 'til ya foam it.

Gardenstater

@plastic_avatar AFAIK you are on track to be the very first person to do the phase plugs AND the foam inside the basket mod on an SDA model! How does that feel? 😉

plastic_avatar

invalid wrote: »

Why are we foaming the inside of the mw's,

The thread that inspired me to try it:

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/195562/must-try-mod-foam-inside-the-stamped-steel-baskets-yes/p1

it shouldn't ring if the Dynamat extreme is properly applied.

There will be a vibration in the basket from the mounting area because that part is not reinforced with matting. But it is largely eliminated when the speaker is screwed/bolted to the cabinet. That's all I'm talking about. And I wanted to verify that was what I hear with unmounted speakers, so I tried different levels of wrapping with mats.

The pipe wrap does about 85% of what the Noico did (to my ears). And that's good enough for a really dead thunk when mounted, so I'm good with that.

...too damn cheap... BH5...

I have a budget because I have responsibilities as a parent and partner. Money ain't so easy to spend on projects if you want your family to thrive.

But, besides that, were we using BH5 for the basket mods? Seems a little thick for the interior. And on the outside, I'm more concerned with adding that vibration absorbent density the wrap provides.

...very first person...

You guys have helped me learn a lot the past 2.5 years since I started on my Monitor 12.

I mean, I wouldn't have been able to go from crossover upgrade to copying xschops' phase plugs in 3D, or designing my own faceplates and backwave catcher for the Wuhans, without the help and screams for restraint

Ya'll even let me write my long responses and my reflections on all these experiments based on your work without giving me guff about my writing.

[thinks]

I need to hurry up and finish foamin', so I can get those phase plugs in!

But I also have to do things like teach my daughters how to properly plug in power cords in tight spaces...

Gardenstater

Is that a Technics SA500 and a Dual CS606? If so, you have my college budget setup right there.

pitdogg2

Blackhole 5 goes on the rear of the cabinet, not the drivers. It along with the polyfil really does a remarkable job at slowing down or absorbing sound waves into the material. Both polyfil and BH5 will make the cabinet seem larger than it is. You can apply too much BH5 and it will suck all the life out of the speaker.

Here's the real deal. Our genius EE guy here @DarqueKnight who will dive into mods deeply and provide in depth graphs of before and after to give you a complete understanding of said mods made the decision that the foam mod in his personal opinion it could be detrimental. Not because it did or didn't work because he didn't get that far. His determination as far as I remember was you very possibly cause damage a good driver putting it on or removing it should you decide it's not to your liking.
Many of us here pray to the DarqueKnight god since he and Matt Polk ACTUALLY sanctioned these mods you/we do. There's actual science behind them. Look I'm not poo pooing it, it's you speaker do as you want. I will not be part of this foam mod. I've personally done the rings, inductors, caps, resistors, spikes, Blackhole, RD-0198 and dreadnought and those all brought my SDA 2.3tl's to an incredible speaker over stock. Many who had listened to them bone stock vs the complete mods are astonished at the level there are at after. There was never a listening session after the complete mods that they don't give me chills. The band and soundstage is huge front to back and side to side.
Just incredible!
That's my take.

Gardenstater

How does DarqueKnight feel about the phase plug mod? That was quite a treat when I did that one but certainly is a major change to the driver!

I came away with a different impression of his comments. He implied that he didn't want to do the mod on his big boys but will consider trying it on his CRS+ someday, where he only has to do 4 MW's total. He at one point said that some of the TS parameters he observed could very well be beneficial. I remember he also said that at one point, he considered cutting away some of the metal on his basket uprights to reduce the reflective area! That was after reading the Vandersteen patent I believe.

I respect him. But I will take the experiences of those who have done, vs those who have not done, hands down.

F1nut

Whatever Vandersteen does, do the opposite.

plastic_avatar

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Blackhole 5 goes on the rear of the cabinet, not the drivers. It along with the polyfil really does a remarkable job at slowing down or absorbing sound waves into the material. Both polyfil and BH5 will make the cabinet seem larger than it is. You can apply too much BH5 and it will suck all the life out of the speaker.

I hope to get or approximate that BH5 block at the back. Waiting to see how finances pan out the next month or so. Because yes, every $50 bucks here and there matters before Christmas

Here's the real deal. Our genius EE guy here @DarqueKnight who will dive into mods deeply and provide in depth graphs of before and after to give you a complete understanding of said mods made the decision that the foam mod in his personal opinion it could be detrimental. Not because it did or didn't work because he didn't get that far. His determination as far as I remember was you very possibly cause damage a good driver putting it on or removing it should you decide it's not to your liking.
Many of us here pray to the DarqueKnight god since he and Matt Polk ACTUALLY sanctioned these mods you/we do.

I was telling my wife, while captive on the drive home from a funeral, about DK

He's one of the most respected/respectful and helpful people I've encountered here.

I read that about his foam worry. And believe me, with my shaky fingers I'm SUPER EXTRA careful (and worried) as I put the foam on.

I'm not worried about re-sale or anything like that, and I don't think I'm going to damage the speakers with what I'm doing (if I do, I'll deal with it), and if I ever want to take it off, I can. It's a pain, but not terrible (I took off a couple of pieces to see).

You're in my top 12 favorites in here, pittdogg2. And I value and appreciate all of your input (and your warnings!).