Bob Carver Corp Crimson 275 stereo tube power amplifier.

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Comments

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    edited February 16
    F1nut wrote: »
    More worthless babble from a master babbler.
    gd3e6xud9fkk.png
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,828
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Does anyone have any ears on experience with the amp?

    I remember, in my youth, when my buying decisions were based on stats and specs. It’s sad when there are entire forums dedicated to stats and specs, and no mention of actual listening. Mind you I’m not defending the 275 (I don’t even care for tube amps) - just echoing the sentiment that no one is talking about how the amp actually SOUNDS…
    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    edited February 17
    I think there's been a countermelody on how the amp sounds running through all threads, including ASR's. I am sure it sounds good.
    There don't seem to be that many owners piping up, though.

    That said -- and I went through the 1970's spec wars, too, boy howdy*.
    My daily driver amplifier is a single-ended 2A3 driven by 6SL7. Right out of the RCA receiving tube manual, via talented audiophile (and musician) Joseph Esmilla. The amp's good for about 3.5 watts per channel at 10% THD, and it's safe to assume it's rolled off at both ends of the audible spectrum. It sounds sublime.

    Here's the point: NOBODY has ever tried to sell a SE 2A3 amp claiming, e.g., that some innovative design breakthroughs lead to, say, 20 watts per channel at less than 0.5% THD. And charging substantially more than "the sum of the parts" is worth, based on spurious claims of quantitative performance. If "Carver" (i.e., the company that's selling the 275s) said it's a sublime sounding, handmade, vacuum tube amp and left it at that: no harm, no foul. Heck, if they said it sounds like a 75 watt amp, and ascribed that to Carver magic... that's be OK, too. But the claims that are actually made for it are unverifiable. And that's a dangerous precedent for the industry, and one that's been set before -- ultimately resulting, in (US) federal regulations on power claims for home stereo equipment.

    THAT's the source of the aggravation with the Carver amp. No more, no less**.

    ____________
    * Cf. the, to me, ironic ad copy from Onkyo, ca. 1977:
    sggvdb5t4epu.jpg
    "You can hear the specifications" :|

    ** Well, OK: maybe that and the lack of safety grounding. My 2A3 amp is properly grounded, BTW and FWIW. :#




    Post edited by mhardy6647 on
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,828
    edited February 17
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    …THAT's the source of the aggravation with the Carver amp. No more, no less**….

    I agree that’s how it started, but 106 pages later I think there’s more ax-grinding going on, than just the published specs.

    My point was that yes, the erroneous and deceptive marketing claims are an unfortunate choice - however, those claims have little to do with the physical piece of gear in question and it’s actual sound reproduction (lest we forget that’s what it’s all about).

    Oddly, my “awakening” to the less-than relevant nature of specs came in car audio, when I swapped a “200 watt” Jensen amplifier ($150) with the 45 watt Rockford Fosgate Punch 45 ($300). The difference was profound both in sound quality and power. It took quite a bit of convincing from a buddy of mine to shell out the $300 (not a small sum in the late ‘80s) for a measly 45 watt amp. And I’m sure Rockford would have sold many more of these amps (initially at least) if they had marketed them as “200 watt” - but honesty prevailed, and the early Punch amps are now legendary.
    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,772
    Clipdat wrote: »
    FMalitz wrote: »
    Although it's rated at 75 W per channel, they all measure about 90 but produce between 130 and 140 watts on music and voice, probably, I assume, at a higher distortion of maybe 1 1/2 to 2%. Normally, it's well under 1% with a lovely profile.

    I think Franks previous job might have been writing receiver specs for the major consumer brands.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    Bet you can't make it all the way through:

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 26,268
    He obviously isn't ready
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    If you make it all the way to 3:19 you'll hear his favorite selling point.
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 4,489
    I did it! I made it all the way through! Sure I pee'd myself a little laughing so hard but it was worth it! Do I feel smarter now? No. Just the opposite but I am now the proud owner of the badge! AND I ALMOST want to buy one of these! Almost.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    You made it?! Holy ****. PM me your address I'll get you a subscription to your audio mag of choice.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    You know for someone who claims to be a poor/slow typist, Frank sure is unusually active on Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Frank-Malitz-2/answers

    Several posts every hour even! Seems like he's just so eager to flap his gums and spout off about how much he thinks he knows about every little thing. Fascinating.
  • TEAforONE
    TEAforONE Posts: 873
    I have no skin in the game,but I couldn’t make it all the way thru. I keep seeing the guy that sells spray on leak fixer.
    See my profile for list of gear.
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 15,416
    OH MY!!!! I can hold my hand on top of the tubes, and not go to the hospital. Great selling point..
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    edited March 31
    Wow....

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649844049-bob-carver-raven-350-monoblocks-demo-units-as-new-10-year-warranty-including-tubes/

    Read the questions....

    Question:
    Frank what do you mean " up till this year" where you be now????
    Answer:
    The company was owned by Jordon Gerber, Bob Carver and me from 2016 until Jordan walked out about two years ago. Everything fell apart at that point. Jordan had the product built, painted and assembled and did all the quality control and we never had a defective. Bob’s wife took over a little over a year ago as Bob began to show signs of cognitive decline. Of course she knows nothing about our industry and one of our dealers convinced her that he should he’s a general manager. For six straight years we’ve never built enough product to meet my sales. This former dealer, Jim Clark Stereo, convinced Peggy, Bob’s wife, that he could build the productin his basement that we couldn’t build ourselves! This is absurd. So the two of them got together and terminated all the dealers in the world and all the distributors from Thailand to New Zealand. They were hoping to make more money. I resigned on the spot. their lawyers have already threatened me but I can give an opinion. My opinion is that they have destroyed all the work that I’ve done and the company will go out of business in the near future. That’s just an opinion and it’s entirely subjective and therefore if they come after me, they have no grounds. this is, once again in my opinion, the greatest tragedy in the world of audio in the last decade. The stuff sounded great. Bob is not to blame. He’s pushing 80 years old and has no idea this is all going on
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,843
    Very sad news to hear about Mr. Carver.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,694
    I'm sorry to hear about Bob's decline, if true. He is a nice guy and a legend.

    Hopefully, that's the last anyone will hear from FM.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,694
    Saw this. No wonder he was defending the 275 at that other site.
    Jim Clark Stereo will be closing soon, as I focus entirely on the Bob Carver website and direct sales to customers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    I'm 45min from Champaign/Urbana, I wonder where these are at? There's only a couple of good audio stors left there. Good vibes or Glenn Poors two big old time well established audio legends.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    That note reads like "we" were suspecting -- yeah, what a mess, eh?
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,793
    Wow....

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649844049-bob-carver-raven-350-monoblocks-demo-units-as-new-10-year-warranty-including-tubes/

    Read the questions....

    Question:
    Frank what do you mean " up till this year" where you be now????
    Answer:
    The company was owned by Jordon Gerber, Bob Carver and me from 2016 until Jordan walked out about two years ago. Everything fell apart at that point. Jordan had the product built, painted and assembled and did all the quality control and we never had a defective. Bob’s wife took over a little over a year ago as Bob began to show signs of cognitive decline. Of course she knows nothing about our industry and one of our dealers convinced her that he should he’s a general manager. For six straight years we’ve never built enough product to meet my sales. This former dealer, Jim Clark Stereo, convinced Peggy, Bob’s wife, that he could build the productin his basement that we couldn’t build ourselves! This is absurd. So the two of them got together and terminated all the dealers in the world and all the distributors from Thailand to New Zealand. They were hoping to make more money. I resigned on the spot. their lawyers have already threatened me but I can give an opinion. My opinion is that they have destroyed all the work that I’ve done and the company will go out of business in the near future. That’s just an opinion and it’s entirely subjective and therefore if they come after me, they have no grounds. this is, once again in my opinion, the greatest tragedy in the world of audio in the last decade. The stuff sounded great. Bob is not to blame. He’s pushing 80 years old and has no idea this is all going on

    Hi John.

    That statement reads like a disgruntled employee.

    Since you know Bob quite well, can you give him a call and see for yourself how well (or not) he's doing?

    I think a lot of members here met Frank in person and have neg. comments about his questionable persona and ego. The statement reads like Bob and his wife hired a Law firm to look into Frank's actions pertaining to his Tube Amp production and distribution oversight actions.

    I sure hope Bob is alright.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    I have already reached out. I know a bit more than what is above, but not from Bob directly, and nothing I can add save to say that yes, it would appear this is more of Frank continuing his douchebaggery...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    Frank continuing his douchebaggery...

    WOW SHOCKED, I tell you utterly SHOCKED !!
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,590
    Hmm, guess my "gut instinct" served me well after all :D
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,475
    Has the NDA lifted so that you can tell us about your full story/experience now?
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,590
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Has the NDA lifted so that you can tell us about your full story/experience now?

    Getting closer it appears :#
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 4,489
    Can someone shove his head under water until the bubbles stop and get this over with?
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Reference Preamplifier Model V12.. More info coming soon.4tautnb3zira.jpg