Bob Carver Corp Crimson 275 stereo tube power amplifier.

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Comments

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 26,269
    0 watts at 20hz is certainly a respectable number not many achieve
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    That looks terrible !
    Hand wound my arse. I'm wondering if Frank CUT major corners after Bob gave him the ball to run with. That Frank guy is a scammer #1, I sat and listened to his inflated self for about 15min. It was 13 min way too long, he's full of himself and basically stated he was the only reason Bob was ever successful.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    That looks terrible !
    Hand wound my arse. I'm wondering if Frank CUT major corners after Bob gave him the ball to run with. That Frank guy is a scammer #1, I sat and listened to his inflated self for about 15min. It was 13 min way too long, he's full of himself and basically stated he was the only reason Bob was ever successful.

    Frank came to mind as I read that...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    edited December 2021
    Even with my skeptical bent, I, too, would like to think that the problem wasn't with Dr. Bob or his original design or intent.

    We did know that the output iron was very lightweight -- the advertising for the amp pinned that the the circuit design; that huge traditional output iron wasn't needed for this amp to achieve 75 wpc. That's what's always intrigued me about this amp. Well, that and what seemed like a pretty good price point for a US sourced, hand-wired 75 wpc vacuum tube amplifier.

    That said, the two amps that were tested seem to deliver about what the output iron promises: around 15 wpc at "hifi" levels of distortion.

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,695
    Way back in 2009 I heard Bob's brand new crimson colored tube mono blocks, which looked identical to these current 275 amps, but I don't recall if they had a model number. Anyway, they sounded fantastic driving a set of Amazing Platinum IV, which are not an easy speaker to make sound good. Those tube amps put a Sunfire 600x2 to shame.

    I also had to carry/transport them and I can tell you those suckers were heavy. It's obvious that the amps I experienced and the current production amps are two entirely different animals. As a result I will no longer recommend his amps.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 15,416
    After reading that link, and some calling him a hack, I just don't know about that, I for one don't know him, and have no experience with his products, but if he was such a hack wouldn't this have come out many years ago? or maybe I am just reading it wrong, but for him to have the name he has in the audio world it just doesn't make sense, maybe his mistake was letting someone else build, and him letting his name be put on these amps. I don't know, I am just rambling thoughts here, but hack seems to be a little premature statement..
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    In that same article someone also said he had never built a good tube amp, that his best offerings were SS.
    I don't know but those BIG MONSTER tube amps he built sure have a following and have held their value pretty darn well for being "no good" ...
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    edited December 2021
    Jesse.... the amps he had back then were the early stages of the Raven/Crimson 350’s he sells today, and are in no way related to these or to the Fest amps he also built for a while.

    The 2x75 are only a couple years old, and were likely the brainchild of Malitz so they could appeal to a wider market.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,695
    Thanks John, that was them and I stand corrected, they do look a bit different.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,695
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    In that same article someone also said he had never built a good tube amp, that his best offerings were SS.
    I don't know but those BIG MONSTER tube amps he built sure have a following and have held their value pretty darn well for being "no good" ...

    That person must be deaf. His Silver 6, Silver 7 and Silver 9 tube amps are spectacular. His SS stuff....meh.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    F1nut wrote: »
    Thanks John, that was them and I stand corrected, they do look a bit different.

    The best looking amps with his name on them are mine! :DB)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 4,489
    I don't know anything about tube amps but this sounds like Chinese / American copycat at it's finest method for making money off an original design.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 568
    Any issue with the 275 amp aside, having the Carver name even appear on the so-called-Science site is criminal.

    No good can ever come from any interaction in any way shape or form from that egomaniac/fraudster over there. Even clicking into that site accidentally leaves me wanting to go wash my hands with the strongest antiseptic I can find!

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,590
    Quite the interesting read.

    My Dayton Audio HTA100BT weighs 13.86lbs.
    275 weighs what19 lbs.

    Just sayin.... :*

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Quite the interesting read.

    My Dayton Audio HTA100BT weighs 13.86lbs.
    275 weighs what19 lbs.

    Just sayin.... :*

    They're twins!
    B)
  • maxward
    maxward Posts: 1,257
    Yes, it was an interesting read. Not sure how to feel about Carver, either the brand or the man at this point.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,793
    I was almost getting ready to buy one of these tube amps. Then that guy promoting Bob's amps threw water on the fire at that audio show. I feel bad for Bob because this guy really hurt his business, I think.

    A member on this forum did buy an amp but returned it pretty soon after, not wanting to tell us why. That was another reason I held off.

    Then there was no hoopla after the roll-outs of his tube amp line. I always wondered why.

    I feel the Prima-Luna had a lot of publicity, but I don't hear too much about them now either. I wanted to buy one of their amps too.

    I had only started to get SS checks then so I waited a little longer. Then my interest waned for both.

    I still haven't gone the tube amp/pre-amp experience but maybe one day... :)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,695
    60wpc isn't 75.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    Watt difference, at this point, does it make...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,772
    edited December 2021
    Well, that answers my question as to why no follow ups from the people that had bought the Crimson.

    But that Mcintosh , I think the 252, also gorgeous looking , is the real deal.....for 1000 bucks more.

    https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/integrated-amplifiers/MA252
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 1,768
    This reads like a horror story. I’m really interested to see the bottom line conclusion after this runs the course. Those output transformers certainly don’t paint a rosy picture though
    2 Channel - 2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Cambridge 851N I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius


  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    edited December 2021
    It's an odd situation no matter what. The "Carverfest" boards/amps is certainly a wrinkle. The good news, from my perspective, is that someone flagged a dealer -- so maybe... maybe... Carver (the company and/or the person) will get involved and we'll get a clearer picture of watt what goes on. I just hope "we" (ASR and/or "Paulbottlehead") don't get a cherry picked amp to test.

    As an aside: Paulbottlehead wasn't an ASR guy until his original posts of the data he generated were taken down on another forum. His association with another west coast "manufacturer" is well documented by him, and he's being circumspect as to offering any speculation or 'qualitative' comments; just measured data & photos. I suggested that might be a good place to post the data (since, like 'em or hate 'em, they are data guyses over there). He hadn't heard of ASR until I mentioned it to him :# -- so I have some culpability in all of this. I know some (maybe many) folks have doubts as to ASR's honcho's ability to properly use the test equipment he employs. I am pretty sure Paulbottlehead knows how to use the test equipment he uses, and how to interpret the data he generates.

    Truly dismal weather here today -- we hope to see the local family for dinner, but it's still a bit up in the air. Meanwhile, the internet is warm and dry. ;)

    Happy Christmas all y'all!

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    Meanwhile, the internet is warm and dry. ;)
    Is it ever cold and soggy?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    round 1 low key; just for me and the little woman ;)

    1cw50cd92jij.jpg

    now... locked and loaded for round 2 -- if/when the clan from Grantham gets here (given the weather) ;)

    3q77mha87yo8.jpg
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,772
    Dang Doc, Santa thought you a good boy this year. You didn't have to leave out your reading material there on the left to convince him.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,761
    Love the floor
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    tonyb wrote: »
    Dang Doc, Santa thought you a good boy this year. You didn't have to leave out your reading material there on the left to convince him.

    Dude. That's the library. B)
    I can read most of the words in those myself and everything.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,570
    well -- the production amp didn't fare too well in an Amir-grade test of output.
    One has to read through the Amir-speak, and there are still wrinkles to the methodology that, I am sure, will raise the hackles of the pro-Crimson folks, but the 8-ohm performance, at least, was on par with that measured by "Paulbottlehead" on the "Carverfest amp camp" amps.

    ln5poasfmlfa.png
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/carver-crimson-275-review-tube-amp.29971/

    The amp did get close-ish to its spec at 1kHz into 4 ohms (ca. 60 watts).


  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    The 275 is their money maker... the Raven/Crimson amps are the real deal, and truly great amps. I always felt the 275 was a shifty-Malitz deal with Bob’s name attached.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”