Bob Carver Corp Crimson 275 stereo tube power amplifier.
Comments
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Lotsa engineers over there... they get all... engineer-y sometimes.
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My favorite conversation in the audio world starts with someone saying... "I'm an electrical engineer and..."- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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That phrase seems to come up a lot with cable deniers.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Two great post's!
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Yeo and the next phrase is... "I've never tried any of these products but they can't make a difference based on..."- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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A slide from one of my lectures for the grad school course I teach fall semesters...
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The question I ask of those "engineer" types that almost always gets a no answer is, have you tried it?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
When someone tries to impress me by telling me they are an engineer my response is usually, "Oh yeah? What kind of train do you drive?"
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- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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When someone tries to impress me by telling me they are an engineer my response is usually, "Oh yeah? What kind of train do you drive?"
Ooooo let me guess
Crazy Train? -
That's a big 10-4.The question I ask of those "engineer" types that almost always gets a no answer is, have you tried it?
That's kind of the gist of that XKCD cartoon in my lecture slide. It's one of my faves -- I have a signed copy of it up in the hifi room, in fact.
https://xkcd.com/242/
"Draft Saved".
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Heck, if I went all left-brain on hifi... I wouldn't be listenin' to single ended DHT amplfication on high-sensitivity (horn) loudspeakers today. Had I not heard the aliveness of 'theatre loudspeakers' with empathetic amplification -- I'd have never believed it.
Heh -- there's a reason that the price of a single Polk R700 loudspeaker wouldn't quite buy one a single Altec 515B woofer today.
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Not sure I get what all the hoopla is about. We all know Frank is a putz, and we all know he was Bob's partner, so what does that say about Bob ? Bob sold his interests in the company, now he enjoys his coin while his name gets dragged in the mud. Specs on the 275 were....embellished. Not the first time that has happened either. I might go as far to say though, Frank intentionally embellished to sell a product where as other companies might have done so by mistake. Either way, Bob seems to have distanced himself from the matter, because legally he has to, or he just doesn't give a hoot.
Wouldn't be the first time an audio company went through that B.S. Who says audio can't do soap opera, lolHT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
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Kitchen
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lsi 9's -
FWIW, as per another forum, the amp is now under engineering review.
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As per one of the members posts "post#770" saying; According to Frank, the amp is under engineering review.
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According to Frank, the amp is under engineering review.
What a hoot!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
According to Frank, the amp is under engineering review.
What a hoot!
Top.
Men.
https://youtu.be/Fdjf4lMmiiI
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Youse guyses may have noticed that Ralph Karsten (proprietor at Atma-Sphere) is an ASR member and has been posting quite on point, circumspect, and level-headed comments to the "Carver 275 review" thread there.
http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/index.html
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralph-karsten-05b72578/ -
mhardy6647 wrote: »Youse guyses may have noticed that Ralph Karsten (proprietor at Atma-Sphere) is an ASR member and has been posting quite on point, circumspect, and level-headed comments to the "Carver 275 review" thread there.
http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/index.html
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralph-karsten-05b72578/
He mostly seems to be a pretty straight shooter. I enjoy what he posts on agon.See my profile for list of gear. -
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A link to the post would be useful so people can follow the responses to his post.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Thanks. Interesting responses.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
When someone tries to impress me by telling me they are an engineer my response is usually, "Oh yeah? What kind of train do you drive?"
Reminds me of my early days in the Navy. I had one friend who claimed he would be a seal one day. My response was to ask him if he could balance a ball on his nose. We were a bunch of electronics nerds, I might have admired his ambition a bit if wasn't such a tool.SDA SRS 2.3tl, SDA 1C, SDA 2B (TL mod), Reserve 200 -
I am glad to see that Bob Carver responded to the ASR thread.
I was disappointed, but not entirely surprised by the response he got. It's fine and expected to see skeptical replies, but not hostile ones.
Here's the take home lesson for me in all of this. This amplifier's philosophy hearkens back to the 1960s and early 1970s "battle" between insensitive loudspeakers and appropriate amplification to drive them. There were at least two camps: the notion of "music power" (which included an Institute of High Fidelity specification!) and the notion of "continuous power" as ultimately expressed in the US FTC regulation. I think there is valid rationale for each perspective.
That said, on the basis of the quantitative performance of this amplifier, I am glad I didn't buy one even at the intro. price back in (IIRC) 2018, which was $2495. Here's my reason:
I was looking for a good 75 watt per channel amplifier that would happily drive a modern loudspeaker load, such as the ELACs I already had, or the R200s (EDIT) that I now have.
This forum is full of admonitions about the importance of power supply grunt and the ability to deliver large amounts of current quickly in response to the demands of modern loudspeaker loads with low and complicated impedance characteristics (e.g., large phase angles at "demanding" frequencies).
Do you think that, at the end of the day, The Carver Corp.'s "275" amplifier would perform well with either of those loudspeakers in the real world, day-in, day-out?
I don't. For better or worse, I have plenty (!) of robust 15 watt amplifiers that I've never even tried on the ELACs or the R200s. So I am glad I didn't add another one to the stable. Mrs. H would not have been pleased!
I have really mixed feelings about how this has all played out.
I think both the "community" and the "industry" have displayed themselves at their worst.
And that benefits none of us.
The funny thing is, as I've "said" repeatedly -- I suspect this amplifier sounds quite good in the real world and I believe it was designed quite purposefully to deliver good performance for a real "use case".
That said, I suspect that the power of suggestion has trumped audiophile expectations when folks have employed one of these little amps with difficult loudspeakers. I further suspect that, e.g., dropping in a Mac MC-275 in place of the Carver Corp. 275, or a good 75 wpc stereo ss power amp with suitable grunt and current drive capability, would result in an audible, and probably dramatic difference.
Sorry, that got a little more verbose than even I intended!
PS I also cross posted this, in somewhat edited/altered form, to the ASR "Review" thread - in full disclosure.
Post edited by mhardy6647 on -
It appears one of our own is now stirring the pot over there on this topic… not a huge surprise there2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
After reading the test results, numerous comments and seeing the photos I feel safe in saying the amp is not even close to what it is stated to be in performance, cosmetics and safety. Therefore IMO, it should be removed from the market and refunds given to those that previously purchased one.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I think that "we" (Polkies, as well as the AKers and Hifihavenites who came to watch and join in, in fact) have been pretty well-behaved over there, actually.
Better than, e.g., Jim "Bottled!ck" Clark.
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Sounds like something Frank would say posing as Bob. If I were Bob I would not get involved in anything a company he doesn't own is responsible for. He's probably on a sailboat somewhere enjoying his retirement anyway.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
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Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
mhardy6647 wrote: »I think that "we" (Polkies, as well as the AKers and Hifihavenites who came to watch and join in, in fact) have been pretty well-behaved over there, actually.
Better than, e.g., Jim "Bottled!ck" Clark.
I was just giving Nooshin **** for defending Carver on this one
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
