Bob Carver Corp Crimson 275 stereo tube power amplifier.

123578

Comments

  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 15,415
    edited January 22
    stangman67 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I think that "we" (Polkies, as well as the AKers and Hifihavenites who came to watch and join in, in fact) have been pretty well-behaved over there, actually.
    Better than, e.g., Jim "Bottled!ck" Clark. :/


    I was just giving Nooshin **** for defending Carver on this one

    I can understand why he did, John had an opportunity with Bob that many have not, one of those moments in life that one never forgets..

    He also carried himself well IMO..
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 1,768
    It was more tongue in cheek than I can represent here I think lol. All in good fun
    2 Channel - 2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Cambridge 851N I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius


  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    I was very clear that I was defending the man, not the company in any form. Frankie Schmaltz can KMA...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 1,768
    Yea I’m with ya
    2 Channel - 2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Cambridge 851N I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius


  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    ahh, OK, cool. B)
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 2,396
    From the amplifier's owners manual:

    giiubicryx5f.png
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 1,768
    Such bs! I’m shocked someone more important than us hasn’t called Carver out on that
    2 Channel - 2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Cambridge 851N I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius


  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 864
    stangman67 wrote: »
    Such bs! I’m shocked someone more important than us hasn’t called Carver out on that


    What about his DC restorer circuit, isn't it just used like a sliding bias scheme?
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 26,267
    From the amplifier's owners manual:

    giiubicryx5f.png

    If this was true i would think it would pick up all kinds of things
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,690
    From the amplifier's owners manual:

    giiubicryx5f.png

    What a crock.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    edited January 22
    Any amp with a high output impedance "listens to the room" |(i.e., "feels" the load impedance) via the loudspeakers (probably the back EMF thereof).

    The 275 has an output impedance (well... OK... according to the specifications ) of 1.7 ohm. That's
    nearly twice the output impedance of my zero NFB SE 2A3 amplifier.

  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 2,396
    Also from the manual:

    uk9bw4i1vfjg.png
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    hmmm -- what's the output impedance of Nelson Pass' oh-so-solid state (and not particularly abnormal, albeit single-ended and with no NFB) "Amp Camp Amp"?

    https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/amp-camp-amp-1.214808/

    DF of the original morph was "about 3" (i.e., output impedance's about 2.7 ohms).
    The Amp Camp Amp... is listenin' to the room. B)


  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 568
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    h]
    The Amp Camp Amp... is listenin' to the room. B)


    Not without feedback to loop everything at the output back to the input.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    edited January 24
    ^^^ That is not entirely correct -- in the sense that the high output impedance of the ACA makes it quite sensitive to the loudspeaker impedance curve, which is sensitive to the back EMF of the loudspeaker. To that extent, it sure does listen to the room! :#

    The 275 DOES NOT have the loudspeaker in any feedback loop. The ad hype for the 275 overstates and mis-states what the amp does vis-a-vis the load. Now, there have been servo drive loudspeakers, like the Philips NFB loudspeakers of the '70s that DO "listen to the room" (with their own, onboard amps in the loop), and there have been amp/loudspeaker pairs with an additional feedback loop connection (I think the LWE/Erath speakers were an example, but I'll have to check) -- but the 275's design does not do this, full stop.

    Don't give the 275 credit that it doesn't deserve.
    Read the lines posted by @SeleniumFalcon above. It's pretty clear that, between the lines, it says little more than "the 275 has a high output impedance"... which it does. The DF of the 275 at 8 ohms is 4.7 according to its specs (output impedance = 1.7 ohm, per the specs on the Carver Corp. site).

    I also rather doubt that it can repair "bad" KT120 tubes, either -- but that remarkable quality was ascribed to the 275 in its marketing blurbs.

  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 568
    Of course there is feedback on the 275. Right from the output (hint...attached to the speaker) and loops right back to the cathode of the input tube.

    The Amp Camp is an output device driving the speaker. No feedback so no way it loops back anything and re-injects it into the signal. That's what the "listening to the room" part is referring to.

    Apologies accepted. :)

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,466
    edited January 24
    FMalitz wrote: »
    I laughed when someone wrote me and asked what DAC and compact disc player Bob would recommend. Bob has never seen a forum.

    Hmmmmm.. But yet he supposedly just posted on ASR's.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,466
    Maybe instead of [email protected] disgruntled customers should be emailing [email protected]
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    CoolJazz wrote: »
    Of course there is feedback on the 275. Right from the output (hint...attached to the speaker) and loops right back to the cathode of the input tube.

    The Amp Camp is an output device driving the speaker. No feedback so no way it loops back anything and re-injects it into the signal. That's what the "listening to the room" part is referring to.

    Apologies accepted. :)

    CJ

    Yes the 275 has NFB.
    No the ACA doesn't.
    Both amps have low DF (high output impedance). Do you know what that means vis-a-vis a reactive load?

    Hint: NFB is all about the amplifier (decreasing HD, increasing flat response bandwidth) and not the load. Interestingly, one of the good reasons to use NFB is to decrease output impedance, which the 275, for whatever reason, does not do.

    Ciao, bambino.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,754
    edited January 24
    F1nut wrote: »
    Please don't invite that blowhard bozo back here.
    Bet you never went to the circus as a kid....
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,553
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Please don't invite that blowhard bozo back here.
    Bet you never went to the circus as a kid....

    He cried :p
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,690
    I knocked his red nose off :p
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,553
    F1nut wrote: »
    I knocked his red nose off :p

    I always wanted to see a grudge match "Captain Kangaroo vs Bozo" winner takes on Mr Rogers >:)
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    I knocked his red nose off :p

    I always wanted to see a grudge match "Captain Kangaroo vs Bozo" winner takes on Mr Rogers >:)

    Barney the Purple Dinosaur for the win...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,553
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    I knocked his red nose off :p

    I always wanted to see a grudge match "Captain Kangaroo vs Bozo" winner takes on Mr Rogers >:)

    Barney the Purple Dinosaur for the win...

    Big Bird takes out Barney
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,854
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    I knocked his red nose off :p

    I always wanted to see a grudge match "Captain Kangaroo vs Bozo" winner takes on Mr Rogers >:)

    Barney the Purple Dinosaur for the win...

    Big Bird takes out Barney

    And Yosemite Sam drops the Bird...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Arcam AVR21, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Yamaha CD-S2100 SACD Player.

    In retirement...TriangleArt Reference SE with Walker Precision Motor Drive,

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,769
    edited January 25
    At least Bob responded, if indeed it was Bob, and offered up refunds for anyone feeling like they got shorted. What else can he do really.

    Future buyers of his products are going to wonder now, with this creative marketing scheme, and past products still gracing peoples homes will start getting looked at cross eyed. Needless to say, this debacle has put a huge dent in his reputation.

    The good news is....lots of used 275's gonna be on the used markets alot cheaper. Can't say I'd kick one to the curb for not having a safety ground connected.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,560
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    I knocked his red nose off :p

    I always wanted to see a grudge match "Captain Kangaroo vs Bozo" winner takes on Mr Rogers >:)

    Barney the Purple Dinosaur for the win...

    Ever see Nine Months?


    (some language and violence -- albeit goofy violence)