CABLE TALK??

Toolfan66

After all these years, why is it that cable talk has to go south? not so much here lately but other audio talk that may be on Facebook or what have you that I might get my read on. it baffles me how many people are bothered how others spend or don't spend their money..

This is in no way to stir the pot here about it, I was just doing some reading and there must be 50 haters on high end cable, and they get ugly like it used to here..

I just don't get all the energy and hatred when there is talk about cables, it sure seems to be worse than talking about religion or politics...

tonyb

I think we all know, it's beating a dead horse again.

To give another example, not cable related per say, but higher audio. I recently like PS Audio's FB page. I started reading some comments about how their products are a waste of money, people who don't even know what their products do, what's a dac, whats a power conditioner, etc.

Same can be said for any industry really. Why buy a Lexus when for much less coin you can get a Ford ? Why buy a Wolf range when you can get an LG. Why buy an expensive TV when an Insignia will work just fine. Designer clothes over Old Navy, a nice watch over a crappy one, both tell time right ? Expensive wine vs. cheap wine, grass fed beef vs cheap beef....and it goes on and on.

Part lack of knowledge, part lack of coin in most all categories. The difference is social media has given every Tom Dick and Harry a mouthpiece to stir the pot. Some just need to validate their status without lending any appreciation for the finer gifts in life. Which is why they can't stfu on things they know nothing about.

Joey_V

It’s a few things.

People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

People don’t bother to try premium wire.

People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

rooftop59

Fine discrimination takes time, effort, and money to develop, whether that be food, wine, music, art, anything involving sense perception. Tony has it right, most of us don’t have the time or money to really develop fine discrimination. And yes, social media just means everyone’s a critic, even when they have never even tried to develop their palates.

tonyb

Joey_V wrote: »

It’s a few things.

People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

People don’t bother to try premium wire.

People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light.

Joey_V

tonyb wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

It’s a few things.

People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

People don’t bother to try premium wire.

People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light.

I know... but I’m happy I saw the light. I was really really REALLY anti-cables.

Now I caress my AQ Wels.

tonyb

Joey_V wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

It’s a few things.

People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

People don’t bother to try premium wire.

People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light.

I know... but I’m happy I saw the light. I was really really REALLY anti-cables.

Now I caress my AQ Wels.

I would too if I could afford them. Though now that you said that, should you ever offer them up for sale, please state you totally disinfected them.

nooshinjohn

Joey_V wrote: »

Now I caress my AQ Wels.

I don’t care what you call it. This is a family friendly forum, and it’s best to keep such activity private.

tonyp063

I think what bothers me the most is the unwillingness of some to even open their minds to the fact that their preconceived notions might just be incorrect.
But then, I generally abhor willful ignorance.

This doesn't just apply to cables, but that's flame-war fuel for a different forum.

Will I be able to afford AQ Wels? Never. But that doesn't prevent me from *learning* about them; why some like them; what they may offer, etc.

That way, when I have a purchase decision to make I can have some intelligent questions to ask and an understanding of the basic concepts around what better cables may, or may not offer *me*.
Then I can effectively narrow purchase decisions based upon my known tastes & garnered knowledge.

"A closed mind has no room for an original thought"

Indeed, that brush can broadly paint most audio choices.

Clipdat

The MIT shotgun speaker and IC cable demo that was on the forum several years ago was pretty eye opening regarding what higher end cables can bring to the table.

Toolfan66

It would be nice to have a thread where we could just talk cables/wire without the drama.

tonyb

Clipdat wrote: »

The MIT shotgun speaker and IC cable demo that was on the forum several years ago was pretty eye opening regarding what higher end cables can bring to the table.

Good point, and we had to drag people to participate in it. Many had no interest, so it became a matter of....those that don't know, don't know.

We like to say hearing is believing, or not believing, depending. Point is and always was....ya have to try things for yourself before passing judgements.

mhardy6647

I have trouble with pseudo-science (more to the point, pseudo-physics). Some nugget of actual physics will be used as a jumping off point for -- imaginative nonsense.

Spoiler alert: the internet is full of such things! (gasp?!) There's like perpetual
motion machines and free energy and other such doo-doo out there.

Now, I am not saying that the geometry, materials of construction, etc. cannot matter when it comes to cabling. They certainly can. Heck, they do. I am also not saying that different cables cannot alter the sound of a hifi system. They can (and do).

but...

It's when just some of the crazy theory that sounds technical and scientific (but is actually just drivel) gets associated with some of the designs -- presumably in the service of marketing. That gets my goat.

To me, the perversion of genuine scientific principles and knowledge in service of pseudo-science is a big issue nowadays... but that's another matter entirely.

steveinaz

Anyone with some knowledge of electronics should understand that wire is a component, just like a resistor, inductor, transistor, etc; and is subject to having an effect on the signal. The question is, how significant?

RandyCroissant

A few years ago I was on the fence, not any more!!

kharp1

I think the mods should start such a thread, or sticky it, with warnings that it's for open, intelligent discussion and blatant trolling will get you shunned , or, suspended for x amount of time. I typically avoid such discussions due to the inevitable angry troll that wants to opine after trying 2 entry level cables/wires and noticing no difference on his/her entry level theater-in-a-box system. Would love a place to discuss what and how a product affects my system, as well as what others have found.

I recently was in need of a set of interconnects after getting back in to vinyl. Wasn't sure if I wanted to pour a ton of money in to it (TOO LATE!) so I was looking for a pre-owned set for reasonable coin. I picked up a set of Silnote Morpheus and was surprised at what I found. They performed equally as well as the Wireworld Silver Eclipse. Price on the secondary market when you can find them, is very accessible.

headrott

Without having read the whole thread, I will respond with one word (with an explanation):

Jealousy.

Jealousy that others can spend money on cables that some may not be able to afford. Jealousy that others can hear what some can not. Jealousy that because of the the two reasons, people actually do spend more on higher end cables for the above two reasons.

That's my take on it.

lightman1

Skip......you make trolling these threads a task for me.

DSkip wrote: »

I find in many areas of this hobby that the issues lie in theory vs reality. While something should work like X, the truth is there is more we don't fully understand that actually make it work like Y. Eventually we will understand these things at a deeper level but until then, it takes an open mind to experiment. It also takes an open mind to realize that if you can't hear a difference, it could simply be the system isn't revealing it to you. It doesn't mean you have a poor system, just that the new component isn't fully realized for whatever reason.

I have faithfully endorsed and will continue to endorse Wireworld because they aren't system dependent. They use scientific approaches paired with scopes to build a better cable. Their cables sound good in every system I've tried thus far. A specific cable from them in general might not be the best fit for your system overall, but it's going to get you close.

machone

I recently upgraded all of the power cords in the digital half of my system but did not bring it up because there seems to be either very little interest or controversy.

F1nut

You think cable talk is bad, try talking capacitors on some of the other audio forums.

afterburnt

I like cables, whatever would I do without them? Now that I am getting back to normal I can evaluate my latest cable purchases. My listening chair has been cold for a while, but then I am still stuck in this bad room for 28 months and 27 days.

mhardy6647

I was listening to used, 70-ish year-old 2A3s tonight... and my, oh, my did they sound fine.

BlueFox

I think my next audio purchase will be the new TOTL Shunyata Sigma speaker cables. Then we can some cable talk. All I can say now is that better cables have made a tremendous improvement in my system. When you find something that works then stick with it.

halo

I come across a video on YouTube titled, "Audiophiles or Audiofools?" and I immediately know which side of the debate the author is on.

I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves to KNOW that all this hi-fidelity mumbo jumbo is just that & that their Beats headphones (while pricey) are actually worth the expenditure because EVERYONE wears them/uses them/ has them/ loves them/blah, blah, blah.

If you're different and you think, say, the Sennheiser HD 650 is an amazing sounding pair of headphones but, Beats headphones sound like garbage, well my man (or woman, or whatever), you (yes, YOU) must be WRONG because EVERYONE ELSE is RIGHT about how GREAT Beats headphones sound.

Maybe it's a herd mentality? Maybe it's more than one thing. Maybe it has to do with the fact that there's NO DIFFERENCE between the sound output by an Audio-VIdeo-Receiver and a dedicated amplifier, right? (I don't personally follow that train of thought but there are those that do). Or, ALL AMPS SOUND THE SAME, right? (again, not my personal belief here but there are people who don't believe there is a difference).

There are many ways to separate an audiofool from his/her/whomever's money, right? It's the same old argument and it floats around from audio topic to audio topic and it covers the gambit from what I've seen and heard.

I've been on both sides of the coin because, in the beginning of my audio journey, I didn't hear a difference between ratshack cables and monster cables. I saw how expensive the higher end monster cables were and I thought it was total snake oil. Well, I didn't have the level of gear that would allow me to hear the difference between high end cables (of whatever brand they may be) and basic cables. As my level of experience changed and the level of gear I encountered went from basic to better than basic (and further up the ladder ((or down the rabbit hole))) I got my learn on. Experience taught me a lot and the people on this forum who shared their home's and their equipment, and their knowledge allowed me to experience different gear for myself. As my budget allowed, I picked up different gear to allow me to experiment.

Perhaps there are those with perfect pitch and golden ears but I'm just an average dude making my way in this hobby looking to find the sound that I'm after.

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer as this is all very subjective. We all perceive things differently because we are all different. I think it should all boil down to you doing what makes you happy. I've heard expensive stuff that didn't seem worth it to me while some budget stuff seemed great. Conversely, some budget stuff sounded like garbage while some expen$ive gear sounded amazing. There's no universal rule that applies here, at least, not that I've seen/heard/experienced.

That's my $0.02 on it. Love this forum. Love having discussions with folks here. Love to get my learn on. Love to help others when/if I can be of service.

lightman1

Oi! Victor fargin nailed it...m

gudnoyez

Im using MIT's, Wireworld. Audioquests, and Signal Cables, all with good results. Do not knock it till you try it.

kharp1

As steveinaz pointed out, cables are another component in the system. Different wire, different metals, different insulators will all do something unique to the sound. Some will have more pronounced effects in different systems as they will react differently to the components upstream. It's reasonable to assume that there may be little gain recognized by placing a higher priced (read better quality materials and build) in a lower end system that is less revealing to begin with. I'm not trying to start a class war, lol, just an observation that there are money issues when it comes to extracting as much info as possible from your system. A $500 Dueland capacitor sounds different than a $5 capacitor.

Viking64

nbrowser wrote: »

I prefer synthetic rope cable to steel cable for use in winches...

I read that as "on wenches".

machone

Good room acoustics have everything to do with hearing the difference in cables. Before I fixed my room I did not know what I was listening to.

Joey_V

BlueFox wrote: »

I think my next audio purchase will be the new TOTL Shunyata Sigma speaker cables. Then we can some cable talk. All I can say now is that better cables have made a tremendous improvement in my system. When you find something that works then stick with it.

My local friend has a set, he loves them.

lightman1

machone wrote: »

Good room acoustics have everything to do with hearing the difference in cables. Before I fixed my room I did not know what I was listening to.

Thank you....