which speakers are better?

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  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    so...consensus says leave the sub where it is tight in the corner?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,624
    Probably better pulled out a bit too.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,232
    F1nut wrote: »
    Probably better pulled out a bit too.

    bwi402xio77t.jpg

    Living room:
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    2Ch:
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  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,581
    alan78 wrote: »
    so...consensus says leave the sub where it is tight in the corner?

    Very nice setup, congrats. I would leave the sub there, if you're hearing the sub being localized then it's too loud.

    F1nut wrote: »
    As mentioned, pull the speakers out a bit and toe them in. Do not put the sub in the middle and definitely do not put the center on top of it.

    ^^^ what he said^^^

    Using the Yamaha speakers for rear surrounds will work, Just keep an eye out for S10's to be on sale for $150 or less a pair.

    Any time you make changes you may want to run Audyssey again.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,232
    I'm going to ask you to SERIOUSLY listen to 7.1 and 5.1.

    Very few rooms are actually better with a 7.1 set up, even fewer AVR's.

    You're cutting power to the other channels and possibly running a risk of clipping, especially the main towers. Just because an AVR can run 7 channels, does not mean that it should.
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
  • deronb1deronb1 Posts: 4,348
    ^^^^^^^
    This
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    I had a hard time hearing the surrounds as it was. I had to turn them up a few db. might not have been the best movie for surrounds but eventually go it going. A few more tweaks and Ill have it pretty good. I mean its already leaps and bounds better than what I had. So even if I did nothing else Im happy! I do want the bass to punch a bit more. So ill likely bump it up a few more notches in the AVR.
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,826
    I would definitely toe those speakers in more, but would disagree with the others. I would probably try the sub between the center and the floor standers. Close to the corners is good, but with that ceiling, I just have a feeling that you're creating standing waves with the sub where it is. Could be wrong, but it's free to try it in a different position.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,624
    alan78 wrote: »
    I had a hard time hearing the surrounds as it was. I had to turn them up a few db. might not have been the best movie for surrounds but eventually go it going. A few more tweaks and Ill have it pretty good. I mean its already leaps and bounds better than what I had. So even if I did nothing else Im happy! I do want the bass to punch a bit more. So ill likely bump it up a few more notches in the AVR.

    You're not supposed to really notice the surrounds. Their primary purpose is fill and should not stand out.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    edited October 2017
    Well after doing the subwoofer crawl I have the sub on the back wall behind the couch. Seems to hit a little harder there and sound is distributed better through the seating areas.
    Post edited by alan78 on
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,581
    alan78 wrote: »
    Well after doing the subwoofer crawl I have the sub on the hack wall behind the couch. Seems to hit a little harder there and sound is distributed better through the searing areas.

    Nice, very nice. good you have the room to do the subwoofer crawl.

    now enjoy a weekend of good action movies.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    Oh we will! Tropical storm nate is coming up this way so it will be an inside weekend.
  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,128
    F1nut wrote: »
    As mentioned, pull the speakers out a bit and toe them in. Do not put the sub in the middle and definitely do not put the center on top of it.

    +1. Agree with F1. You probably want to experiment with the placement of the sub.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Sonos - W4S Mod, DAC: W4S DAC-2
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,128
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    I'm going to ask you to SERIOUSLY listen to 7.1 and 5.1.

    Very few rooms are actually better with a 7.1 set up, even fewer AVR's.

    I can't comment on running only on an AVR but for a large room 7.1 (with properly placed speakers and set-up) rocks compared 5.1. The difference is huge and in my large room I would never go back to 5.1. Yes, this is also dependent on the movie but good well recorded action movies are fantastic in 7.1. I actually can't wait to get the 7.2.2 atmos system set-up which should probably happen by the middle of next year.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Sonos - W4S Mod, DAC: W4S DAC-2
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,128
    F1nut wrote: »
    alan78 wrote: »
    I had a hard time hearing the surrounds as it was. I had to turn them up a few db. might not have been the best movie for surrounds but eventually go it going. A few more tweaks and Ill have it pretty good. I mean its already leaps and bounds better than what I had. So even if I did nothing else Im happy! I do want the bass to punch a bit more. So ill likely bump it up a few more notches in the AVR.

    You're not supposed to really notice the surrounds. Their primary purpose is fill and should not stand out.

    Yes and no. If you have a helicopter flying from the front left of the screen to behind you on the right side you should exactly hear this happening in your room as if you are there. It's not in the background. Same thing if you hear a gun being fired directly behind you.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Sonos - W4S Mod, DAC: W4S DAC-2
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,236
    F1nut wrote: »
    As mentioned, pull the speakers out a bit and toe them in. Do not put the sub in the middle and definitely do not put the center on top of it.


    Oh oh. I am in trouble. Fortunately, I never turn on my sub (LSiW), since I get more than enough bass from the fronts, rears, center. I have to admit though that the sub makes a great center stand. At one point I was even placing shelves under the center to bring it to the bottom of the picture on movies that are letter boxed. But that was in the day when I was more into HT than I am now. :)
    Bud - Silicon Valley

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  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    Ah man I need to knock the gain down on the sub. Now it hits so hard it vibrates my projector. Ugh...
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,581
    alan78 wrote: »
    Ah man I need to knock the gain down on the sub. Now it hits so hard it vibrates my projector. Ugh...

    :) :) :) :)

    oh yeah the problems and you have a good sub now. Just think of what a PB16 would do :) :)

    I thought the STF2 was great, then VTF2 was a holly S**** Batman, now it's oh my gosh with the VTF3-MK5 I think any more sub and stucco will start coming off.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,060
    alan78 wrote: »
    Ah man I need to knock the gain down on the sub. Now it hits so hard it vibrates my projector. Ugh...

    :D I'm glad you are having so much fun Alan, you will have enjoyment for years to come!
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    edited October 2017
    Well we watched wonder woman last night. Decent movie..the bass was great but my wife said the rest sounded like our HTiB. Ugh....specifically she said the center channel. I'll admit it sounded just like my buddies Klipsch center kind of sounded in a box and not clear. Is that just the way movies are made? Anyway to crisp it up?

    After audyssey ran I upped the center 1db. Then during the movie I upped the center 2 more db. Still seems like the dialog is not loud and crisp.
  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 1,858
    alan78 wrote: »
    Well we watched wonder woman last night. Decent movie..the bass was great but my wife said the rest sounded like our HTiB. Ugh....specifically she said the center channel. I'll admit it sounded just like my buddies Klipsch center kind of sounded in a box and not clear. Is that just the way movies are made? Anyway to crisp it up?

    After audyssey ran I upped the center 1db. Then during the movie I upped the center 2 more db. Still seems like the dialog is not loud and crisp.

    I always have had to boost the center channel a couple db for movies after running any correction program.
    Modest HT - Pio Elite SC-63, RT800i, CS400i center, FXi50 surrounds, Def Tech PF 15TL+, Belkin PF30, Samsung UBD-M7500.
    Even more modest Bedroom - HK AVR 340, Monitor 5jr+ Series2, CS300 center, Furez 10/2, Roku Premiere+
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    Yeah it currently up 3db total after runny set up. Seems like it could be more though but afraid it will over power the towers. I guess I should bump then up some more as well.
  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 1,858
    alan78 wrote: »
    Yeah it currently up 3db total after runny set up. Seems like it could be more though but afraid it will over power the towers. I guess I should bump then up some more as well.

    Your other option is to turn the towers down a db or two. I assume they are drowning out the center channel for voices, so instead of boosting the center and the towers, try dropping the towers a little and see how it sounds.
    Modest HT - Pio Elite SC-63, RT800i, CS400i center, FXi50 surrounds, Def Tech PF 15TL+, Belkin PF30, Samsung UBD-M7500.
    Even more modest Bedroom - HK AVR 340, Monitor 5jr+ Series2, CS300 center, Furez 10/2, Roku Premiere+
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    edited October 2017
    I don't know if they are crowing out the center but more that the voices in the center seem muffled. But I'll try that too and see what happens. I knows it's a work in progress and will take time to get it too our liking. I was a little bummed when she said they sound the same as our HTiB system. Boo...haha I don't think so but I guess my ears are different.
  • She would probably say the same thing about a $5000.00 pair of speakers.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's;Cables: Wireworld Eclipse IC; Audioquest Big Sur IC; LAT International speaker cables; PS Audio AC-3 power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

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  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,232
    Are you still trying to run a 7 channel set up?

    If so, you're probably not sending an awful lot of power to very important speakers like the center. Making them sound thin and lackluster.
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    Are you still trying to run a 7 channel set up?

    If so, you're probably not sending an awful lot of power to very important speakers like the center. Making them sound thin and lackluster.

    I am not. 5.1 only. I have yet to try the 7.1
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,581
    edited October 2017
    Is your center still on the box or did you make or buy a stand? is it angled up a tad?

    bumping it up won't overpower it. I would turn down the towers by a db or two and bump the center up one.

    As for not telling the difference, hmmm one of my in-laws has all in-ceiling speakers and a little earthquake sub driven by an entry level Sony AVR. They have tried to say it sound better than mine.. told my sister in-law to come talk to my when the water in the glass on the table has ripples.

    Wonder Woman was a good action flick.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • alan78alan78 Posts: 80
    It is still on the box and it is angled up. Tonight we are watching the new pirates of the caribbean. I will up it some more and see what happens. I have a dialog adjustment so I'm going to up that. Not sure if that is different than the center adjustment or not.

  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,232
    alan78 wrote: »
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    Are you still trying to run a 7 channel set up?

    If so, you're probably not sending an awful lot of power to very important speakers like the center. Making them sound thin and lackluster.

    I am not. 5.1 only. I have yet to try the 7.1

    Could be several things. Try pulling it out from the wall a bit more to help with the "boxy" sound. Make sure it's at a good height or properly angled to point at listening position.

    what are your crossover settings? Do the distance settings seem right? Was it just that movie or every movie you watch? How many calibration points did you use? Does it sound better without calibration?

    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
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