Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, NAD and others have had HDMI problems and other issues. Doesn't mean that they are putting out junk for lack of a better word. Bad quality control happens, it happen to the best of them. I had a NAD per-pro 7.1 processor cost me 3 g's after 1 month of use it developed HDMI issues. Again not trying to derail your thread, point being, just like everything else be it a vehicle motorcycle or toaster oven thing go wrong. As for that Marantz rooftop59 posted the link to, is better unit than the one I have now so to speak. @rooftop59..I thank you for your research, as for me? I am still staring at that Marantz Unit on accessories4less trying my best not to hit the buy on it..But knowing me? Come the 29th of this month if that unit is still available it will be sitting in my audio rack. Then add a 5 x 200 amp. Best if luck to you alan78 with your endeavor. Keep an open mind with your gear choices and research!
I agree that ANY company can have QC issues.
However, HOW the company handles it, is the real issue to me.
From personal experience, Marantz does not care at all.
Based on the conversation I had with my dealer, I'm not even close to the only one with issues with Marantz.
It's too bad, when it works, their stuff does sound nice.
Living room:
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
I agree totally, when my Onkyo 818 went out I was not a happy camper, as with my NAD unit also. I have a Onkyo nr656 now so far has performed flawlessly. I want "lol" Yamahas 2070 and a 5 channel amp tp boot or a Butler 2 channel amp and let the Yamaha drive the center and surrounds. Two nice MartinLogan 60s would be nice also..
Thanks for the shutout Upstatemax, I am new to this forum.
Just a note, I just received two Monitor 70 Series 2 today, are the Rti's a better line with Polk, sure they are. I live in a small apartment. But my set-up is very modest compared to what I used to have which was Polks LSi line the whole line including amps. I am happy with the Monitor line I have now, 5 1 set-up. I had the original M70 line way back in the day. Polk is hard to to beat their customer service is outstanding. Sure I have owned other speakers by other manufacturers. But the value of the M70's that I picked them up for under 4 bills is hard to beat. When they the M70's first came out they had a price tag around a grand for the pair. I did see on Crutchfields site the Rtia5's for 299.00 each very sweet speaker.
Oh, the M60,ll where L/R mains they will go to the back as surrounds and my T15's will be used as front heights, working on running the speaker wires as we speak for the front heights, set-up will be 5.1.2 now. Good thing my neighbors are forgiving cause I do crank my set-up up sometimes. I picked up the M70'll on NewEgg..for 169.99 each on 9/15/2017 they came in today. Was going to go with Amazon they have them for 149.99 but the tax ran me off..lol. I didn't have to pay tax on NewEgg. (Alan78) just a note, I am not trying to sway your decision with gear that is totally your choice with gear, speakers and such. Again lots of great tips, and choices that the other members have posted on your thread are good choices. I am enjoying your thread thank you!
I've had nothing but stellar customer service from Marantz.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
I must be fortunate I have a a few Marantz CD players an SACD player a couple Marantz recievers and a couple of Onkyo recievers never had a problem with any of them. I have not needed to contact customer service for either product so no complaints here.
Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
When my Onkyo 818 went out, Onkyo sent me a box, the shipping label, tape, packing all free. NAD also was outstanding with service. When I said I agree to "upstatemax" post the agreeing part was the bummer in part of my units failing.
My 818 went on to perform flawlessly for over two more years, I just sold it off cause I wanted the latest Dolby Atmos and DTS-X. and a unit compatible with 4K. I said to myself I was going to KISS this time around.
I must be fortunate I have a a few Marantz CD players an SACD player a couple Marantz recievers and a couple of Onkyo recievers never had a problem with any of them. I have not needed to contact customer service for either product so no complaints here.
I've had a few Marantz CD players at this point and I agree, they are rock solid and sound great.
It seems to be once they get into anything HT related they can have issues. Best we could come up with, Marantz needs new software engineers when it comes to ANYTHING HT related.
I feel like Marantz can build something that sounds good in their sleep, but they seem to put next to zero effort into software. The HT stuff seems to be buggy and unstable.
Living room:
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
Dang I have written down Polk RTiA5's for 179 each but I didn't write down the site! ugh
Calm down on the [email protected] sights and you won't need to delete your browser history so much!!
Lol...@Upstatemax...umm @.alan78 ...where are them RTiA5's at!!..I have 30 days to send my M70'll's back...please post the link if you can find it again.umm...no I will just keep the M70'll and if you find that link them RTiA5's will be L/R mains...you can never have to many speakers ya know.. Really at that price I will!!
I was thinking the A7's where 179.. lol..never mind.. lol..mind sees what it wants to see sometimes...
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
Crutchfield has all RTIA series speakers NIB at 50% off, there is a thread about it on the forum.
Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
I am going with the denon x3300. I will. I have a few more measurements I need to take before I fully commit which I should have tomorrow.
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
If you're on the fence for an SVS Sub, don't be.
They are awesome.
Living room:
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
Family Room:
Samsung UN60H,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk Signature S60
Center: Polk CSi-A6
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Sony KDF-E42A10,
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES
4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
If you're on the fence for an SVS Sub, don't be.
They are awesome.
Thanks Upstatemax, so many subs out there, I have read great reviews on SVS subs.
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
If you're on the fence for an SVS Sub, don't be.
They are awesome.
Thanks Upstatemax, so many subs out there, I have read great reviews on SVS subs.
On top of the reviews, their CS is top notch. Also, they offer a 45 day no questions asked 45 day trial period with free shipping both ways. No brainer IMO. Check out their outlet store for some nice deals.
HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One
Yep I saw them on the Polk eBay site. They don't have the A3's so that will be an Amazon source. I'm going with an SVS sealed sub and the x3300. The whole system is a refurb..excpet the A3's.
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
I am going with the denon x3300. I will. I have a few more measurements I need to take before I fully commit which I should have tomorrow.
How did I miss that in your post...lol..anyway.. yeah Denon nice pick..
I actually to have to pull the trigger...which I hope will happen tomorrow. I'm at work now so I can't get my measurements I need. Need to make sure the rtia5's will fit when I get the new screen.
I actually to have to pull the trigger...which I hope will happen tomorrow. I'm at work now so I can't get my measurements I need. Need to make sure the rtia5's will fit when I get the new screen.
Just pull the trigger and don't worry. Worst case, just blow the wall out if you need more room.
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
What color? Reason I ask is I have a black one sitting on the shelf in the garage. Only problem is shipping it might cost too much...
CSia4 is a good center. the 6 is better but if getting a 4 means you get a bigger badder sub then by all means get the sub.
Post edited by mrloren on
When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
Family Room:
Samsung UN60H,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk Signature S60
Center: Polk CSi-A6
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Sony KDF-E42A10,
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES
4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
The center is the most important speaker in an HT rig. Get the RTiA6.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
Comments
Skip, it was the HT based products; AVR's, Pre/Pro, Universal players.
He did not mention any issues with the Reference, 2ch based stuff.
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
I agree that ANY company can have QC issues.
However, HOW the company handles it, is the real issue to me.
From personal experience, Marantz does not care at all.
Based on the conversation I had with my dealer, I'm not even close to the only one with issues with Marantz.
It's too bad, when it works, their stuff does sound nice.
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
I agree totally, when my Onkyo 818 went out I was not a happy camper, as with my NAD unit also. I have a Onkyo nr656 now so far has performed flawlessly. I want "lol" Yamahas 2070 and a 5 channel amp tp boot or a Butler 2 channel amp and let the Yamaha drive the center and surrounds. Two nice MartinLogan 60s would be nice also..
Thanks for the shutout Upstatemax, I am new to this forum.
What is your onkyo driving?
Just a note, I just received two Monitor 70 Series 2 today, are the Rti's a better line with Polk, sure they are. I live in a small apartment. But my set-up is very modest compared to what I used to have which was Polks LSi line the whole line including amps. I am happy with the Monitor line I have now, 5 1 set-up. I had the original M70 line way back in the day. Polk is hard to to beat their customer service is outstanding. Sure I have owned other speakers by other manufacturers. But the value of the M70's that I picked them up for under 4 bills is hard to beat. When they the M70's first came out they had a price tag around a grand for the pair. I did see on Crutchfields site the Rtia5's for 299.00 each very sweet speaker.
Oh, the M60,ll where L/R mains they will go to the back as surrounds and my T15's will be used as front heights, working on running the speaker wires as we speak for the front heights, set-up will be 5.1.2 now. Good thing my neighbors are forgiving cause I do crank my set-up up sometimes. I picked up the M70'll on NewEgg..for 169.99 each on 9/15/2017 they came in today. Was going to go with Amazon they have them for 149.99 but the tax ran me off..lol. I didn't have to pay tax on NewEgg. (Alan78) just a note, I am not trying to sway your decision with gear that is totally your choice with gear, speakers and such. Again lots of great tips, and choices that the other members have posted on your thread are good choices. I am enjoying your thread thank you!
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
My 818 went on to perform flawlessly for over two more years, I just sold it off cause I wanted the latest Dolby Atmos and DTS-X. and a unit compatible with 4K. I said to myself I was going to KISS this time around.
I've had a few Marantz CD players at this point and I agree, they are rock solid and sound great.
It seems to be once they get into anything HT related they can have issues. Best we could come up with, Marantz needs new software engineers when it comes to ANYTHING HT related.
I feel like Marantz can build something that sounds good in their sleep, but they seem to put next to zero effort into software. The HT stuff seems to be buggy and unstable.
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
Calm down on the [email protected] sights and you won't need to delete your browser history so much!!
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
Lol...@Upstatemax...umm @.alan78 ...where are them RTiA5's at!!..I have 30 days to send my M70'll's back...please post the link if you can find it again.umm...no I will just keep the M70'll and if you find that link them RTiA5's will be L/R mains...you can never have to many speakers ya know.. Really at that price I will!!
I was thinking the A7's where 179.. lol..never mind.. lol..mind sees what it wants to see sometimes...
Hahahahahaha you win the internet!
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
When you get all your new gear in, please post your thoughts on your set-up especially your SVS sub I'm interested in your thoughts on it. Have You decided what AVR?.
I am going with the denon x3300. I will. I have a few more measurements I need to take before I fully commit which I should have tomorrow.
If you're on the fence for an SVS Sub, don't be.
They are awesome.
Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD
2Ch:
Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
Which center are you going to get?
Family Room:
Samsung UN60H,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk Signature S60
Center: Polk CSi-A6
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Sony KDF-E42A10,
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES
4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
Thanks Upstatemax, so many subs out there, I have read great reviews on SVS subs.
On top of the reviews, their CS is top notch. Also, they offer a 45 day no questions asked 45 day trial period with free shipping both ways. No brainer IMO. Check out their outlet store for some nice deals.
Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
How did I miss that in your post...lol..anyway.. yeah Denon nice pick..
CSIa4
Just pull the trigger and don't worry. Worst case, just blow the wall out if you need more room.
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
What color? Reason I ask is I have a black one sitting on the shelf in the garage. Only problem is shipping it might cost too much...
CSia4 is a good center. the 6 is better but if getting a 4 means you get a bigger badder sub then by all means get the sub.
Family Room:
Samsung UN60H,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk Signature S60
Center: Polk CSi-A6
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Sony KDF-E42A10,
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES
4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
So now I'm not sure if I want to intermingle sig s10's with rtia5 or go for that sig package
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."