Burnt out on this

mantis

Hello everyone,
I've been into Audio and video basically since I was born. I grew up with it, I'm a musician since the age or 9 and I have upgraded my system so many times over the decades it's basically madness.
For the last year or so I have basically lost my drive to get excited about new stuff, upgrading and all of this. the industry has a lot to do with that since 2008.
In 2008 I lost my job at Tweeter when we went out of Business. I worked for 2 other companies since then and started my own thing.
I watched countless brands fall to their knees and many go out of business. I watched many companies go under and many people lost their jobs.
I also watched and still continue to watch the quality of products get worse and worse. I never saw so much failure in my lifetime.
I can say this with total honestly , Things are NOT built like they use to. I know how that sounds but look around you , we now live in a disposable world and I hate it.
Thinks break so much these days it's sick. I could go on and on about the quality I see and it's awful. Not many things are good anymore, just go try and buy a quality blu ray player or a receiver that stays working. Try to buy a TV that doesn't fail or have a network work one day and totally fail the next. It's total madness and it's really killed my desire to love this industry.

afterburnt

That's sad but now you are free!

Conradicles

Free at last!

Conradicles

On a serious note, it is no big deal Dan. These things are just things, not of any importance in the grand scheme of things.

kevhed72

I hear ya in that I'm tired of anything which just breaks down, cannot be repaired at a reasonable cost, and just goes to the landfill. At what point do all these toxic materials in landfills end up killing us, or perhaps they already are...

mantis

Conradicles wrote: »

Free at last!

Yep the bug has left the building.

txcoastal1

mantis wrote: »

Conradicles wrote: »

Free at last!

Yep the bug has left the building.

Yeah it's great when you get rid of that itch...

lightman1

Ban hammer?

gudnoyez

I hear ya Dan, I still got stuff from the 70s and early 80s that still works no problem. If I were you I would stay with what ya got and invest disposable funds on another hobby like Mountain Bikes you got a Fat Boy yet? (Fat Boy = Mountain Bike), for all yuz that have a one track mind. I have found a Giant Dealer that takes trades so hopefully a Fat Boy will be in my future. Enough of this Audio Video stuff.

boston1450

I have other hobbies also & have to choose what best for me

Joey_V

I'm still infected

BlueFox

I am still infected, and now tweaking the HT. New 75" Sony TV, stand, curtains, and a two port Shunyata Denali power conditioner for it.

Joey_V

Denali? Nice. I read on WBF you were after one @BlueFox

BlueFox

Bought if from Mike on AudioShark. At least I could use my CC and get points on this purchase. Still bugs me I had to pay cash for the S5s, but it was a private sale.

tonyb

Conradicles wrote: »

On a serious note, it is no big deal Dan. These things are just things, not of any importance in the grand scheme of things.

Very true....but Dan's gripe is aggravating none the less.

We've all noticed it not just in audio products but consumer products across the board. Really though, it's a side effect for other issues that nobody wants to address. Rising costs of doing business, lower wages for consumers to buy quality products. Manufacturers will make products based on a demographic of consumers, if 50% of the working class is hovering around 30k a year in wages, what products do you think they will create in order to sell ?

I recently bought a new LG range, double oven....to replace a Kitchen-aid that was probably going on 17-18 years of age. Simply no comparison to the build quality or design between the 2. The older Kitchen aid was head and shoulders above the new LG in both build quality and design. My other Kitchen aid appliances, Fridge and dishwasher are the same age and have never seen a repair man. Which btw...they are NOT energy saving appliances and that goes back to my theory that energy saving devices for some reason don't last as long. Could be cheaper power supplies ? Don't really know....even my energy saving lightbulbs, suppose to last up to 9 years, I'm lucky to get 9 months out of them at 10 bucks a bulb. What if, some bonehead gets the idea to apply energy saving theories to audio ? Amps, pre amps, dacs,....you don't think that would have an effect on sound quality ?

Add to that, build in obsolesce....they don't want products to last a long time, they need you buying new stuff every so often. In audio, we've all experienced the compatibility issues over the years, while the physical build quality get's cheaper and cheaper. This also creates jobs, maybe falsely, but jobs none the less. We men have seen this take place for decades in the auto industry.

Point is, everything is reactionary, everything adjusts to the situation at hand, to policy being made, agendas being pushed, and false economies being sold because the bottom line in all this is making money, as much as you can, as often as you can, under any given circumstance.

Sure, some may look at it and say we are just crying about missing old times when things were made better and we should get used to this NEW way and accept it for what it is. My point is simple....it doesn't have to be this way. Why accept mediocracy when we all know we can do better, produce better quality.

When it comes to audio, I pretty much left consumer brands long ago in favor of the boutique brands for the very reason of quality. Where I could anyway. The older higher end products are a steal these days and the sound quality still compares or even kicks butt on newer gear. Lets face it, even if you make 60-80k a year, have a family, a house, coupe cars to pay for and maintain, and all the bills associated with that, 2k for a pre amp, another 2k for a decent amp is a non starter. 60-80K a year is probably 80 percent of the consumers out there. The portion of the consumer pie you have to market quality stuff to has now shrunk greatly. Thus it becomes what we call a niche market.

Next time you hear about proposed legislation or feel good agenda driven garbage, think about the lasting and rippling effects it will have on consumer goods and your ability to buy quality merchandise, effects on the economy and wages. Think about your ability to buy stuff not cheaply made in China for a change. Everything runs hand in hand.

mantis

gudnoyez wrote: »

I hear ya Dan, I still got stuff from the 70s and early 80s that still works no problem. If I were you I would stay with what ya got and invest disposable funds on another hobby like Mountain Bikes you got a Fat Boy yet? (Fat Boy = Mountain Bike), for all yuz that have a one track mind. I have found a Giant Dealer that takes trades so hopefully a Fat Boy will be in my future. Enough of this Audio Video stuff.

I Rock a GT Avalanche Hard Tail. I've had it since new in 2004. I've been eyeing up a few Specialized models as well as a Giant I liked. I'm debating on a Full suspension but I probably don't need one.

westmassguy

My Polks and Carver Amplifiers are older than my son. My 901s are 40+ years old.
Our Washing Machine was built in the 60s, when Maytag was Maytag.
I learned about planned obsolescence back in a high school economics class.
What we have now, is planned obsolescence on steroids, coupled with just plain shoddy manufacturing.
Always read the Warranty before your purchase. It gives great insight into the manufacturers faith in their own product.

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

Conradicles wrote: »

On a serious note, it is no big deal Dan. These things are just things, not of any importance in the grand scheme of things.

Very true....but Dan's gripe is aggravating none the less.

We've all noticed it not just in audio products but consumer products across the board. Really though, it's a side effect for other issues that nobody wants to address. Rising costs of doing business, lower wages for consumers to buy quality products. Manufacturers will make products based on a demographic of consumers, if 50% of the working class is hovering around 30k a year in wages, what products do you think they will create in order to sell ?

I recently bought a new LG range, double oven....to replace a Kitchen-aid that was probably going on 17-18 years of age. Simply no comparison to the build quality or design between the 2. The older Kitchen aid was head and shoulders above the new LG in both build quality and design. My other Kitchen aid appliances, Fridge and dishwasher are the same age and have never seen a repair man. Which btw...they are NOT energy saving appliances and that goes back to my theory that energy saving devices for some reason don't last as long. Could be cheaper power supplies ? Don't really know....even my energy saving lightbulbs, suppose to last up to 9 years, I'm lucky to get 9 months out of them at 10 bucks a bulb. What if, some bonehead gets the idea to apply energy saving theories to audio ? Amps, pre amps, dacs,....you don't think that would have an effect on sound quality ?

Add to that, build in obsolesce....they don't want products to last a long time, they need you buying new stuff every so often. In audio, we've all experienced the compatibility issues over the years, while the physical build quality get's cheaper and cheaper. This also creates jobs, maybe falsely, but jobs none the less. We men have seen this take place for decades in the auto industry.

Point is, everything is reactionary, everything adjusts to the situation at hand, to policy being made, agendas being pushed, and false economies being sold because the bottom line in all this is making money, as much as you can, as often as you can, under any given circumstance.

Sure, some may look at it and say we are just crying about missing old times when things were made better and we should get used to this NEW way and accept it for what it is. My point is simple....it doesn't have to be this way. Why accept mediocracy when we all know we can do better, produce better quality.

When it comes to audio, I pretty much left consumer brands long ago in favor of the boutique brands for the very reason of quality. Where I could anyway. The older higher end products are a steal these days and the sound quality still compares or even kicks butt on newer gear. Lets face it, even if you make 60-80k a year, have a family, a house, coupe cars to pay for and maintain, and all the bills associated with that, 2k for a pre amp, another 2k for a decent amp is a non starter. 60-80K a year is probably 80 percent of the consumers out there. The portion of the consumer pie you have to market quality stuff to has now shrunk greatly. Thus it becomes what we call a niche market.

Next time you hear about proposed legislation or feel good agenda driven garbage, think about the lasting and rippling effects it will have on consumer goods and your ability to buy quality merchandise, effects on the economy and wages. Think about your ability to buy stuff not cheaply made in China for a change. Everything runs hand in hand.

Let the truth be told my man.
I had my house built 13 years ago. In the last 3 years I have replaced the Central Air unit, the entire Heating system( It's a forced air system), Washer and Dryer , Hot water Heater , Garbage Disposal , Microwave , Oven has been repaired thank god it could be, Dishwasher just went and the tub in my Hall bath is cracked and the entire room needs to be gutted IMO, it's all builder special quality stuff.
For my home audio system Fios is now acting up as I replaced the DVR which fixed some other issues I was having with the recording but the guide still loads amazingly slow and I believe the ONT is going bad.
Yesterday my Right channel Def Tech Mythos Sub went haywire and is now making all kinds of noise.
Not a bad thing but the HD DVD player plays discs now when it feels like it and my Blu ray player acts up from time to time.
I got a new Apple TV and I hate it as it works so damn slow it drives me crazy so I ripped it out and but the older one back in. It works SO MUCH BETTER. I could care less about all the new features.
Thank god again that the 60 inch Pioneer Elite Kuro is still kicking strong. I don't want to replace it even though it's only 1080p. 4k is nice but the new tv's ALL OF THEM do not compare to my Kuro. They all look fake, the Sony's are the nicest models out there but they are not better running 1080p then my Kuro. It will be a sad day when it goes.

In the industry I'm a service tech and have been for over 3 years now. I still Program and do calibrations but I rarely ever Install anymore. We have other guys to fill that role.
I also took on a Sales position in the company as a part of my Service roll. When stuff breaks I talk about upgrading instead of repair where it makes sense. I've revamped entire house systems and Theater rooms to todays standards and it's nice to see someone mix old tech with some of todays thats actually good.
But overall I'm just sick and tired of broken things.

mantis

O and I didn't mention my 2014 Nissan Pathfinder is a piece of crap. It's the worse Nissan I have ever owned and the only one that is built horribly. Even Nissan isn't what they use to be.
My lease runs out this coming summer and I'm NOT getting another new Nissan.
I'm either going to get a new Dodge Durango RT v8 model or a used Nissan Pathfinder from 2005-2012 when they where built like a truck and of high quality. Those where real Pathfinder trucks not these sissy crappy 2013-current models.

heiney9

A Chrysler product is the last thing I think of when reliability and quality are in the same sentence. Fiat/Chrysler has been circling the drain on putting out a quality and reliable product.

Just my .02c

H9

mantis

My wife got a Jeep Renegade last year and so far it's been great. We lease so we only keep our vehicles 3 years. Hoepfully we will not see the drain.

motorhead43026

The average American could not afford the build quality of 30-40 years ago. This applies to about anything except automobiles.

tonyb

That's what they manufacture to Dan, the people who lease. You have the car 3 years, of course it should last that long with no problems. What about those who keep them 5-10 years ? Like everything else, as soon as the warranty is over, the games begin.

So then reviews of a 3 yr. old car then run as great....no problems. Good for the rep of the brand, promotes others to inquire about x brand. For owners though, who keep cars longer, a different picture might appear.

I don't know about other states, but here in the state of highway robbery, Illinois, you pay sales tax on a leased vehicle. So say a 30k car, you pay the 3k in sales tax, first month and last month payments, license, title, and other fee's and your at or over 4k to drive a car you don't own off the lot. When that lease ends, and providing you stayed under 10-12k miles a year they give you, you have to incur the same costs again for another vehicle. If you want to buy the car you leased at the end of that lease, you have to pay sales tax again. Don't know how they get away with that, but it is the state of highway robbery.

motorhead43026

ChryslerFiat is a joke.

Nightfall

Weird thing is the only audio components I have had break down is a Turntable from the 80's and an Integrated from the 70's. Everything else is keeping on.

Late 80's to late 90's Honda and Toyota is the epitome of reliability.

charley95

I gave up on Detroit cars after buying a used 14 Lexus RX 350 with 6k on the clock 2 years ago. I must say after 2 years it's the best car I've ever owned. Time will tell as the years and miles add up but, I haven't had anything repaired since I bought it. It's damned if you do or damned if you don't on cunsumer products. Did a full kitchen remodel a few years back and replaced all the appliances with the cheapest fake stainless Whirlpool had to offer. My appliance repair guy stated that's the way to go since they will live a short life compared to the older ones I had. He stated the circuit boards in all of the newer appliances are usually the culprit of failure. So, when the board fails in my $1k fridge in a few years I'll just buy another fridge. Such a shame!

heiney9

tonyb wrote: »

That's what they manufacture to Dan, the people who lease. You have the car 3 years, of course it should last that long with no problems. What about those who keep them 5-10 years ? Like everything else, as soon as the warranty is over, the games begin.

So then reviews of a 3 yr. old car then run as great....no problems. Good for the rep of the brand, promotes others to inquire about x brand. For owners though, who keep cars longer, a different picture might appear.

I don't know about other states, but here in the state of highway robbery, Illinois, you pay sales tax on a leased vehicle. So say a 30k car, you pay the 3k in sales tax, first month and last month payments, license, title, and other fee's and your at or over 4k to drive a car you don't own off the lot. When that lease ends, and providing you stayed under 10-12k miles a year they give you, you have to incur the same costs again for another vehicle. If you want to buy the car you leased at the end of that lease, you have to pay sales tax again. Don't know how they get away with that, but it is the state of highway robbery.

Tony if I'm understanding you correctly, this year in Illinois you only pay tax on the part of the leased vehicle you will actually be using (paying for), not the entire cost of the car. This is new for 2016 and going forward.

Previously you'd be at a disadvantage of leasing a car because of the ridiculous sales tax on the entire price. Illinois is in-line with how more states collect sales tax on leased vehicles now.

So let's say the negotiated price of the vehicle is 30K and you're leasing for 24 months and your total lease payments are 10K. Now in Illinois you only pay sales tax on the 10K not the entire 30K. The old way was to pay tax on the entire 30K even though you were only paying 10K in actual payments during the lease period.

H9

Joey_V

The only thing about lease is I can tax deduct it completely.

rpf65

Manufacrurers have a tough time building a product that is both reliable and energy efficient. Due to a combination of testing for energy efficiency, staying within government rules and regulations, and most people wanting that energy efficient sticker on the product, it's harder than many think.

The appliance guy that told Tony B to buy the cheapest model he could find was correct. The control boards are what kill most appliances. Washers and driers with the most basic functions will out last the high tech ones.

Same with fridges. Want them to last longer, don't use the built in ice maker or water dispenser, and once a year clean it. Pull it away from the wall and unplug it. Pull that front panel off the front bottom and vacuum under neath it. That's where the coils and compressor are. You'll probably come close to doubling its life. Most important, get the base model. Why anybody needs to control each individual drawer's temperature is beyond my comprehension.

Air conditioning is about to become a nightmare for consumers, all in the name of energy efficiency. The old R-22 is close to being completely gone, to save the ozone layer. They ran at lower pressures, so compressors didn't have to work as hard. That's why it wasn't uncommon to see 20 year old systems. The stuff currently being used, R-410a runs at much higher pressures, causing a higher start and run current. Shortens their lives. At least most manufacturers have gone to aluminum evaporator coils, so they should last longer. Clean your outside coils once a year and you'll probably get a couple of extra years out of the air conditioner. Just make sure you turn the power off at the disconnect or breaker box first.

Between the new rules for component replacements, and somebody, somewhere deciding that R-410a is bad for the environment, there will be another cycle of of the same things we just experienced. Hate it when I have to tell people I could fix it, but we can't get the part. So instead of a $1500 repair, you'll have to spend north of $5000 to replace everything.

Yes, there is builder grade everything. Couple years back a regular customer of mine bought a new A/C and gas furnace from another company, because it was considerably cheaper. A builders grade condenser was installed, and I told her we don't even consider offering them. Same brand, but still an inferior product. Think I've already did about $500 in repairs on that system.

Perfect example is thermostats. I can go to Home Depot, for instance, and buy a Honeywell thermostat for about $50. I could also go to a parts house and buy one that looks exactly the same for about $80, and that's the wholesale price. Difference the cheaper one has a one year warranty, and the more expensive has a 5 year warranty. Better internal parts. Same thing for the Nest products, which I have a particular dislike for.

Plumbing is also an area where you can still get quality products. The American Standard faucet in your local big box store is a completely different animal than at a plumbing store. That's why it's about 25% cheaper.

Not saying that I don't see a decrease in quality in a lot of things out there. Sure manufacturers are using inferior parts on a lot of things to stay competitive. Other times there just trying to get one product to do the job of 3 or 4. Multipurpose things are usually not a good idea. I know there are exceptions, but in general not the best solution.

I know this post started about audio, and I apologize for going off topic.

Joey_V

My Infiniti G37S coupe from 2008 to 2012 didn't have any issue other than squeaking by the front windshield cowl. That took like 4 visits to the dealer and angry phone calls.

Other than that, it was preetty good.

mikeyb128

You must have a spell of bad luck. My VW Golf R hasn't ever had an engine light in 85,000kms only issue was a leaky ac condenser that was warranty. I've had great luck with audio gear, and only issue was 2 pair of lemon 705's a couple tweeters and a cross over, and of course my JL subs amp crapping the bed, both companies warrantied both. My house has been solid, except for one bathroom fan, not good for those big poops hahaha