Burnt out on this

Dennis Gardner

I recall Dan's post around 6 years ago on the quality decline of the Pioneer Elite line. He took it pretty hard then that Elite would never again mean what it once did. Every mainstream maker took the same approach to the economic downturn in choices to cheapen/lighten up their entire lineups. People that had tons of $$$ to throw away, lost the butts in the real estate downturn and couldn't afford the ever increasing build quality that we had enjoyed for the past 15-20 years prior to '09. Cheaper parts with less QC is to blame, and we as consumers have become accustomed to simply returning stuff that doesn't work without much thought.

Sad for sure, who knows if a prolonged economic explosion would give a chance for quality to return. I'm afraid that high quality is reserved for high end items and the masses are left with picking through the waste heaps and suffering with lesser disposable products.

txcoastal1

^^^^correct.
The housing market crash screwed alot of that up. Elites were dealer items and were protected. I saw 200+ residential integration companies shutdown in the Houston area including distribution centers.

Everyone was scrambling for business and cutting the bottom line.

nooshinjohn

If I don't like the build quality, I won't even look at a product... instead I will build my own

WagnerRC

i would like to know the age of the responser's posted here. It would be interesting to me. I am somewhat of a new guy here and don't know many member other than handles. I am 59 and my name is Bob. I find this post of great interest.

txcoastal1

49

erniejade

48

lightman1

49

Willow

41

mantis

46

mantis

cfrizz wrote: »

Wow Dan, this is a shock. You are practically the king of upgrading to the latest & greatest!

I know and I use to love it, now I want to slow down and settle in for a while.

mantis

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I recall Dan's post around 6 years ago on the quality decline of the Pioneer Elite line. He took it pretty hard then that Elite would never again mean what it once did. Every mainstream maker took the same approach to the economic downturn in choices to cheapen/lighten up their entire lineups. People that had tons of $$$ to throw away, lost the butts in the real estate downturn and couldn't afford the ever increasing build quality that we had enjoyed for the past 15-20 years prior to '09. Cheaper parts with less QC is to blame, and we as consumers have become accustomed to simply returning stuff that doesn't work without much thought.

Sad for sure, who knows if a prolonged economic explosion would give a chance for quality to return. I'm afraid that high quality is reserved for high end items and the masses are left with picking through the waste heaps and suffering with lesser disposable products.

I never got over it.
I was watching Wayne's World last night and just remembering how it was back then. The world was so very different.

I gotta believe at some point someone is going to want to bring quality back. We can't just live in a throw away world and think thats how it is.

mantis

txcoastal1 wrote: »

^^^^correct.
The housing market crash screwed alot of that up. Elites were dealer items and were protected. I saw 200+ residential integration companies shutdown in the Houston area including distribution centers.

Everyone was scrambling for business and cutting the bottom line.

That was the turning point. It started around 2006 and blew up 4th quarter of 2008. It started about 2006 when things started to fall. Denon was the first victim.
Companies went down everywhere. In our industry it was just sad how many went out of business.

motorhead43026

60+

mhardy6647

nooshinjohn wrote: »

If I don't like the build quality, I won't even look at a product... instead I will build my own

yup. That's the best (and most cost effective) way to get what one wants; fun, too.

The only drawback for some of us latter-day Neanderthals is the aesthetic part.
I really wanted to build this amp, but someone else (Nate at audiokarma) built one that was so much better looking than what I would have turned out -- I bought it when it became available; no regrets.

ReVox WHRB Dead aircheck by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

cfrizz

Will be 56 in 4 weeks.

tonyb

cfrizz wrote: »

Will be 56 in 4 weeks.

Your still a puppy. lol

Like your last post too and agree with most. Yes WE as in some parents always want their children to have better than they did. With in bounds though. You still have to teach the lessons we older folks were taught, just in different ways. You adjust as generations change a bit.

I think today's parents are a bit more selfish than older parents. It's more of an "it's all about me" type of thing. I remember parents when I grew up scrimp and save, never took vacations, always looked for the cheapest way to do things and save a buck. All because they wanted to promote their children and let them have a better life. We call that sacrifice....a word many parents today are unwilling to accept. Many have kids and are unwilling to change their lifestyle or put in the hard work it takes to be a parent. Still yet some use being a parent as a way to gain welfare benefits. They don't get married either as a way to stay on the dole. The ones that do get married experience a high failure rate as well.

I'm not saying parents today should be the misers of the older set, but they seemingly have forgotten the lessons learned and pass them on. Instead they indulge in the "keep up with the Jones" mentality. I know way to many personally, with the Luxury car, kids all have the latest tech gadgets, Iphones and I pads, 2 different gaming systems, designer clothes, etc,.....but don't have a pot to pee in. They miss a day of work and they are struggling to pay bills. Then moan how it's somebody elses fault they can't get ahead, their kids can't go to the best schools, yada yada.

All this "stuff" they acquire, material things, feeds their mentality that they "made it', are somehow better than their parents before them because....just look at all their stuff. We never had all this stuff. They failed in the lessons learned. How to build character, integrity, passion for what one does in life. Parents today have replaced that with...stuff. Today's marketing plays into that, you need stuff to be cool, socially accepted. If your not buying the latest and greatest, your not cool enough.

Not trying to paint with a broad brush either, many parents today get it, understand what being a parent is all about. Unfortunately many don't too and it's a sad state of affairs that can be seen anywhere you go. Wasn't as commonplace in my day, but today is more the norm than the exception.

charley95

Will be 53 in March. I don't have kids by choice but, I never did get why parents continuously bail their kids out of self inflicted messes. I was raised by my divorced mother who struggled to survive $$ wise. She wouldn't buy me my first car which was $800 and told me to keep saving and I'll get it. Worked at a gas station when I was 16 and stole a Diners Club card that a customer left behind. Charged up $300 on it and got caught by the owner so, my mom drove me out to the owners house to pay him back, lesson learned and never stole again.

She instilled in me to stay out of debt and to save as much as possible. I was pretty wild when I was younger drinking and smoking pot. Mom informed me that I could take myself under but, just to let me know that she wasn't going down with me. Never was arrested but, she stated quite firmly to not call her if I do go to jail. She was a very generous mom when she could be but, she made me learn the value of a $$ before she became generous. She was a tough love mom but I'm very thankful what she sacrificed to raise me.

These are different times to raise kids and I don't envy anyone who has to go through the struggles of raising them.

cfrizz

Yes Tony, today's kids are more about it's all about me. I see it at work all the time, and part of that is because they saw what we went through and have decided not to put up with it, and to some extent, I can't blame them.

Our kids grew up not only being spoiled, but also they saw how hard we worked and then one day to announce that our jobs had just been cut after 20, 30, etc. years. It didn't matter if we had a college degree or not, when these corporations are ready to let you go they do so because it's just business. It's all about a never ending rising stock price, and they will do whatever they have to, in order to achieve that.

Then they see us struggling to get new jobs and bumping up against age discrimination, or being TOO qualified (ie expensive to hire) but we are far from retirement age. Sometimes having to take whatever we can so that we can survive.

They internalized all of this, and have come to the conclusion that they will NEVER allow themselves to be treated that way. So if things get too bad, they simply walk away. If they have to make a choice between their job and having a life outside of their job, they choose to have a life.

It took us over a year to find a doctor, he gave his notice 3 months in and is gone. Leaving us scrambling to reassign all of his patients to two other doctors, one of them being the Medical Director of the hospital! He and the other doctor are well into their middle years and take their commitment to their profession and patients very seriously. The doctor that left is probably in his early 30s and left because "I'm tired of leaving here at 9:00 at night I want to have a life."

As far as I can see, it is our generation that is keeping these business afloat, once we retire they are going to be up chits creek because the generations after us are already telling these corporations where they can shove their jobs!

motorhead43026

^^Were not those growing in the 70's called the Me Generation. Guess who is running these corporations today, that's right baby boomers. We baby boomers are the most self centered and selfish generation of all time, and we have literally turned this world into one big sheethole.

tonyb

Can't have a life without a job Cathy....unless your a trust fund baby.

Motor,
No, late 60's into most the 70's was the hippy generation. Anti-war, flower children, peace bro.

BTW....Baby boomers are not the problem, lack of parenting skills, selfishness, spans many generations. Introduction of the internet just expanded many social problems, double edged sword kinda thing imho. Then when they put the internet on cell phones, crap really started flying.

Ask any teenager, even young to middle aged adults today what they'd give up to keep their phones. They'd quit school, forgo food, sleep....pretty much anything to keep their internet connected cell phones. Know what that spells ? ADDICTION.

Cathy,

Those who claim they simply "won't put up with it" get a big smack in the face when rent comes due....or car payments. Unless they are living in their parents basement, which lots of them do today and that is the parents fault for enabling them to be snowflakes.

We older generations know the differences between reality and the way you wish things were. Reality is slow to change, especially in corporate circles. Personally from what I see, what the wife see's....it's gotten much worse today than years ago. My wife moves many high profile people from fortune 500 companies, celebrities, NFL, even politicians....and I can assure you things are much worse than news cycles say on media. The elitist attitude is simply astounding.....and even though most are very well to do, millionaires many times over, they get the most for free at the expense of the stock holders and employees.....and they can all give a rats behind if you or 50 people get laid off so they can reap their bonuses or get a house that's 300k under water paid off for them. There is a reason I hold the opinions I do, because I see this garbage every day. Others may hold different opinions too based on what they see in their lives but there is always a fine line between proportionate junk and crap that's just out of control. Obviously we can't live in a Utopian world, where everything just works as it should, but when abuses get so out of control someone has to stand up and say "WTF is going on here. " and at least try and correct it.

I'm not asking to reinvent the wheel in all this, but we have to have limits as a country and a defined set of priorities. Without that, your just pissin' in the wind and on the road to insolvency.

Joey_V

34 here.

tonyb

Joey_V wrote: »

34 here.

Dang man, I have shirts older than you. lol

Willow

tonyb wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

34 here.

Dang man, I have shirts older than you. lol

Glad you didn't say underwear

Upstatemax

I'll be 34 in March.

I see problems in every generation, I deal a lot with the public.

The SLIGHTEST inconvenience and most people are ranting and raving, without a care as to why something happened.

example, I had one of my Dr's carted out by paramedics and I had this jerk standing in my office throwing a fit because he had to re-schedule his exam. Keep in mind, the Dr was wheeled out right in front of him.

Drama, general jerkiness and entitlement lives in every American age group.

mikeyb128

Just turned 33, have technically been here since 09, but my account mysteriously disappeared after the switch to vanilla.

gce

36 but I'm dyslexic.

voltz

55

mhardy6647

heh -- buncha young whippersnappers.

ken brydson

mhardy6647 wrote: »

heh -- buncha young whippersnappers.

I know, right?

tonyb

Now...don't be pickin' on the youth. The only problem I see is....they think they have all the time in the world.

They couldn't be more wrong.