Polk Signature Series Official Discussion

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Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,151
    Some of us also have a lower tolerance for "just decent" and higher expectations of what sounds good. That's not meant to sound snobbish at all, it comes from experiences, likes, dislikes, and ultimately what we are willing to accept at the lowest threshold and what we are looking for out of our rigs.

    I have friends who are perfectly content to drive a small entry level automobile. Some of us prefer something a little sportier, plusher, quieter, larger, more driver specific traits, etc.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,151
    AVRs have built in amplifiers and their amps need to be matched with compatible speakers. A 60 watt amp just may be challenged to drive very inefficient 4 Ohm speakers, that is as true for separates as it is for AVRs. One size fit all statements about separates are as false as one size fit all statements about receivers. If the front speakers are too much of a load for the AVRs amp, add a separate power amp that is compatible and able to drive those speakers.

    I did say that, go back and read. I said it's NOT a one way street.

    However I have a 30wpc amp that I have yet to stump or find the upper limits of. In fact it plays into a dead short. 30wpc. Has more scale and dynamics than just about everything I've heard. So really specs mean nothing. On paper this amp looks a bit anemic. It's a power house and is one of the best sounding amps I've ever put ears on.

    Ratings are a very loose guide but by no means are they going to tell you anything about how something will sound or perform, nor will they allow comparison.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,151
    edited June 2017
    AVRs have built in amplifiers and their amps need to be matched with compatible speakers. A 60 watt amp just may be challenged to drive very inefficient 4 Ohm speakers, that is as true for separates as it is for AVRs. One size fit all statements about separates are as false as one size fit all statements about receivers. If the front speakers are too much of a load for the AVRs amp, add a separate power amp that is compatible and able to drive those speakers.

    Then the compromise becomes the pre-amp section of the AVR, which is never a strong point. A separate pre in most cases will perform better (if that's what's important to you) AVR's are compromises set to a specific price point.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • begbie
    begbie Posts: 630
    edited June 2017
    HI guys,

    Been a while. Signatures caught my eye. Looking to build a small 5.1 with the s50,s15 and debating the s35 or s30. What do some of you think of which center?

    Also I saw an S15 review on youtube and the reviewer noted the glossy plastic cap is loose toward the bottom. Any owners experience this?



    Starts at around the 4 minute mark.
    Polk Rt800i -Fronts
    Polk cs400i -Center
    Polk fx500i -side surrounds
    Polk rc60i -rear surrounds
    Onkyo TX-NR 1009 (9.2) receiver
    Velodyne cht12
    Polk psw111
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 11,769
    Wow interesting. Thanks for posting. Curious if that also causes in air leaks
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,103
    I've taken the front bezel piece off my S20's, so I can tell you first hand they are not easy to get off. Therefore, I suspect the guy in the video broke his trying to remove them and that's why they are loose now. Mine are not broken, sit tight and don't make the noise that his do.

    Ron, there would be no air leaks from that issue he has.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    Alright Jesse - dish.
    What'cha got in store for the S20s?
    Rebuilt the crossovers yet?
    I disabled signatures.
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,602
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Some of us also have a lower tolerance for "just decent" and higher expectations of what sounds good. That's not meant to sound snobbish at all, it comes from experiences, likes, dislikes, and ultimately what we are willing to accept at the lowest threshold and what we are looking for out of our rigs.

    I have friends who are perfectly content to drive a small entry level automobile. Some of us prefer something a little sportier, plusher, quieter, larger, more driver specific traits, etc.

    I think in many cases were are arguing "Semantics"

    Read the reviews I linked to a few posts up.
    They review scores of amps and receivers, but their comments I found most interesting.




    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,151
    Package it however you want to justify your POV. I can assure you semantics isn't the issue.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,906
    edited June 2017
    This seems like a good time to mention:

    1) There is no such thing as "RMS Watts" (FTC 1974 regulations on stereo output power ratings notwithstanding). AC Volts RMS, yes, but "RMS Watts", strictly speaking is an average power measurement, probably better referred to as "Continuous sine wave watts".
    https://books.google.com/books?id=L38MrvScG3gC&pg=PA335&lpg=PA335&dq=RMS+watts+is+a+misnomer&source=bl&ots=L7sRwVPdFN&sig=JuZcctDSRtH9dU59sX8CBRFloCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj12_eysM3UAhWBPT4KHTxzC8Q4ChDoAQgpMAE#v=onepage&q=RMS watts is a misnomer&f=false

    2) Music (or most any other audio program material) is not a continuous sine wave (although, of course, by Fourier series any waveform may be "produced" by an appropriate combination of sine waves") :)

    3) Loudspeakers are complex and reactive loads for an amplifier -- and the impedance "curve" of most dynamic (permanent magnet cone or dome drivers) loudspeakers is pretty -- complicated.

    4) All in all, "output power" specifications - though easily measured in a reproducible way (which is an important thing, don't get me wrong!) - are pretty meaningless in the real world for listening to real music reproduction using real loudspeakers in a real acoustic environment.

    The point is that it is all important: the room, the type of music (or other program material, since the focus is on multichannel A/V reproduction), the loudspeakers and the listening level. Investing lots of time listening to lots of different components in different environments -- building one's own database -- is the best way to make good choices of hardware for oneself.

    3-ish watts per channel (two channels in toto) at my house, driving loudspeakers with a sensitivity of ca.102 dB SPL per 2.83 AC volts (RMS) input signal at a distance of 1 meter.

    As the folks from Rolls-Royce used to say, when asked about the horsepower specification for their motorcars, "adequate".
  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    begbie wrote: »
    Hi guys,
    Been a while. Signatures caught my eye. Looking to build a small 5.1 with the s50,s15 and debating the s35 or s30. What do some of you think of which center?
    Also I saw an S15 review on youtube and the reviewer noted the glossy plastic cap is loose toward the bottom. Any owners experience this?
    Starts at around the 4 minute mark.
    Begbie - I think consensus is for the S30 if you have the space, otherwise S35 if you want to have it sitting on top of a tv stand in front of your tv.
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Wow interesting. Thanks for posting. Curious if that also causes in air leaks
    F1nut wrote: »
    I've taken the front bezel piece off my S20's, so I can tell you first hand they are not easy to get off. Therefore, I suspect the guy in the video broke his trying to remove them and that's why they are loose now. Mine are not broken, sit tight and don't make the noise that his do.
    Interesting. I just went a rapped on the bezel on the S20s I got from [needs-nick]Craig. Sure enough, there's a void on mine, both bezels, and it slaps a little, but not as bad as in that guy's review. Also no visible gaps on quick inspection. Of course I didn't go pulling on them like that guy did in his review (wtf. I kept waiting for it to snap! also, had to take a Dramamine with all the zoom play) Does take a good measure of rapping to demonstrate. I've not had any problems with rattling or vibration, though. The cabinets on these are very solid. If more came through the cabinet while rockin' I could see where it might be a problem. At some point I might try to fashion something non-destructive to take up the gap/isolate, but for now, just continuing on with burning/breaking them in.
    I disabled signatures.
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,779
    ^^My S60's have no visible gaps but I can get a little slap from one area when tapping on the bottom bezel on both speakers. I going to mark it down as nature of the beast.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    There are three things that give a man a false sense of courage, a keyboard, alcohol and a firearm.
    Motorhead, 4.12.20

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    High lounge trumpet and accompaniment sounds amazing on Signature S20s. Seems like it should be painful, but it's not at all. In fact, makes me want deeper immersion in the goodness, like you can't get enough. They seem very lively, but not harsh or edgy.

    They seem really good at "space" - is this airiness?
    Lushy echo and decay that's taking its time, as if on its own schedule, no rush, nowhere to be.

    I've got SOMA FM's Groove Salad going while I strip the vinyl off some Monitor/RTA-11Ts.
    I disabled signatures.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,386
    Now I just had to go tap on the bezel on all my Signatures... none are loose :)

    For the AVR's. That is all I have owned. Never had a seperate amp before, A friend did let me check out his Emo when I had my 5300ES and it did make a big difference on my RTi8. He was trying to sell it to me, no cash at the time.

    One thing I noticed was on my Sony flagship 5700ES @ 135X7 it had a max power input of 430 watts. My Marantz SR5010 has 630 watt input power. Gee and my Marantz sounds better why?

    I am thinking of getting an amp http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marmm7025/marantz-mm7025-2-ch-x-140-watts-power-amplifier/1.html It's not the biggest badest amp out there but it would take the load off my receiver. I am shooting for Christmas time frame to get it. Also unless I find a way to get more power to my family room I a limited to a 15A circuit.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,602
    edited June 2017
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Package it however you want to justify your POV. I can assure you semantics isn't the issue.

    H9

    Was giving you an easy out.

    Would be interested if you even knew what my "View" was.






    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,103
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Package it however you want to justify your POV. I can assure you semantics isn't the issue.

    H9

    Was giving you an easy out.

    Would be interested if you even knew what my "View" was.

    Correction, you were trying to give yourself an out. It's what you do time and again otherwise known as your MO.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    edited June 2017
    F1nut wrote: »
    Perhaps the real question here is have you sat down and tried a few high end amps and if so, which ones? I ask for specifics because you're always so vague. You also talk in circles to avoid answering specific questions, so I'm hoping for something different this time.

    I think the real question some of you guys who are so opinionated on this subject might want to consider is that while your "stereotype" of AVRs (no pun intended) is based on older equipment as Tony mentioned, you probably haven't really had the opportunity to evaluate the more modern modern AVRs. AVRs produced after 2010 are different animals than the type we grew up with.

    Also, comparing high end amps to lower end (and significantly less expensive AVRs) will always help to reinforce your stereotype but that's about all it accomplishes. On the other hand one could take a modern high-end AVR and blow away a lower end far less-expensive separate amplifier, but that wouldn't really be too surprising either to most people.

    Separates won't always outperform an AVR but an advantage that a separate has is that they can offer more flexibility down the road. Also separates tend to be geared more towards the higher-end while AVRs come in all flavors.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,103
    Says the guy with an AVR from 2008.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    Lol, geedee, guys, you're gonna get the Internet closed by Labor Day at this rate.
    I disabled signatures.
  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    F1nut wrote: »
    Says the guy with an AVR from 2008.

    Yeah that's right. The SC-09TX was the AVR that kind of got the ball rolling for the newer class "D" ICE-powered AVRs.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    Chris Isaak's Blue Spanish Sky on the S20s at reference, no sub - makes me feel like I'm in a movie scene.

    Trumpet and loungy, seedy night club jazz stuff sounds absolutely amazing to me on these speakers. Brushes on drums as well - so very comfortably detailed!

    What is that when the trumpet is higher pitched? Is that when they're using a mute?

    Very fun speakers. A touch fat and muddled, but haven't quite figured out what/where that's going on. It's like some low vocals are pushed up a bit, causing a bit of muddy resonance at times, but I'm just crudely set up with them right now, so take that with a grain. I'll try another day with closer attention to setup, and maybe a sub in the mix to see if it cleans up.

    It's turning into one of those late - Okay, just one more... nights. I've been saying that for the past hour.
    I disabled signatures.
  • xsmi
    xsmi Posts: 1,653
    Well, I've got an old RX-V2090 that I'm not afraid to hook up to any pair of speakers and crank the volume. It never sounds fatiguing and has always given me a very lush sound. This receiver was released when many said that Yamaha's were bright electronics. This beast defied all of the naysayers.
    2-channel
    Belles 22A Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Marantz SA8005, Pro-Ject RPM-10 Turntable, Schiit Mani Phono Pre, Moon LP 3 Phono Pre, Polk Audio SDA-SRS, AudioQuest Cable throughout.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,586
    Beautiful experience on S20s, both of these tracks. If the S20s are any indication, I imagine S60s must absolutely kill it.
    4kjkygkua8rw.jpg
    I disabled signatures.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,386
    edited June 2017
    When I have my after work unwind, I mostly use my main HT downstairs with the S60. just a fantastic speaker. If mother in law is sleeping or someone watching TV I will crank up the bedroom HT with the S20. It's a little less but darn good speakers.

    Need mother in law to move out so it will be S60 all the time....
    Post edited by mrloren on
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,103
    msg wrote: »
    Alright Jesse - dish.
    What'cha got in store for the S20s?
    Rebuilt the crossovers yet?

    Don't know, they are collecting dust right now.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,039
    I would put my Onkyo TX-SR 805, C.2007 up against almost any modern day AVR, for power and sq.
  • Jimbo18
    Jimbo18 Posts: 2,236
    msg wrote: »
    Beautiful experience on S20s, both of these tracks. If the S20s are any indication, I imagine S60s must absolutely kill it.
    4kjkygkua8rw.jpg

    And your S20's aren't broken in yet, are they? Should only get better.

    Really making me wish I had some extra cash.