Amps and surge protectors
Comments
-
So why are some buying power cables worth more than the entire run of electrical cables combined throughout the house?
To help lower the noise floor, which you don't really hear until it gets lowered resulting in greater clarity. Power cords are not the last 3 feet, they are the first.However I am reluctant as we live in a new build and they are still building a couple blocks away and we never know when they will shut down the power to hook up more houses. What kind of damage if any could be caused to my amp?
No different than you hitting the power switch.
Thank you F1.
-
I might be nuts here but I've done a fair bit of powercord stuff. I've run the following cables:
Pepster (need to send him another letter sometime)
Tara Labs
Pangea AC-14, AC-14 SE, AC-9
All of those were fairly inexpensive, though honestly thats because I tirelessly searched for them on CL, etc so they cost me dearly in time lol.
All of them provided a a improvement in sound in their own way. I found the Pangea's were good starter cables, especially at used prices. Although the AC-9 is a beast of a cable with over 6" needed to make any kind of a bend.
I had always had my eyes on the PS Audio cables due to the removeable ground pin which I like a LOT, and also the way they terminated their cables. Big thanks to @F1Nut for consistently mentioning them over and over till I dreamt about them at night. I originally bought Pangea's cause well they were cheaper and I couldn't afford the PS Audio ones.
Recently Music Direct had a sale on the PS Audio cables (might still have some left) and I dived right into the AC-3's, upgrading EVERY component in my system to use a AC-3. I thought about snatching up a AC-5 for my B&K since its got a bigger gauge wire in it (though still smaller than the Pangea AC-9), but didnt get to buy one before the length I needed was sold out.
One thing I noticed INSTANTLY was with the AC-3 my sub got LOUD. Now I had a different PS Audio cable on it before so it "shouldn't" have made a difference but it did. So much in fact I double checked my kid hadn't hit the gain switch on the sub, or somehow turned up the level in the AVR. It for me was NIGHT and day.
So I can only assume that its due to a better current flow through the cables that this was achieved. I also have a APC H15 in the mix for everything but my B&K amp as that goes straight into the wall.
I've found the better your gear, the more noticeable it is. So a nice powercable on a cheap Sony blu-ray player - not worth it. A nice cable on a Esoteric, Oppo, etc - worth it.
I also will say you as a individual need to quantify the effect on your own. This is one part of the hobby that is totally subjective and you cant really pull out stat's/measurements etc unless your @DarqueKnight whose multiple threads on Residential Noise are a MUST read."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
On the subject of utilities service, most of the homes in my area have been fed with a minimum guage of 2/0 aluminum to the meter base fed underground from a pad mount transformer. The average voltage output is around 126V to neutral per phase. This helps steady the voltage to about 123V under heavy loads, i.e. three central AC running at the same time, stoves, all the lights on what have you.
They are not concerned with induced noise, ground loops or what kind of wire is in the walls.
My plan is to set another 100A disconnect straight off the meter base and run a dedicated sub-panel to the new HT/2Ch room in the basement. Using 1/0 SER feeder cable. Then from there all branch circuits will be strictly for that room except lighting which will be fed from the existing sub-panel in the basement. Lights are noisy creatures. Low voltage lighting, LED anything with a ballast or driver board will be off the grounding or grounded conductors in the new panel.
Minimum 12 guage wire for branch circuits and dedicated outlets for equipment.
Just being able to isolate or reduce noise and interference is a plus. I will eventually get a regulated or regenerator to help lower that noise floor in the future.
So in conclusion, there are situations where "clean" power is not available, but there are products to help that along. But if you have the means, I suggest this is the way to do it.
Buy the good cables and hear the difference in a short outlet to amp, gear, situation.
Stay wired my friends. -
@lightman1
When you gonna come and run my dedicated circuits for me lol............ JK....
Thats not gonna happen anytime soon due to the "awesomeness" of my configuration lol..."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
@lightman1
Make sure when you are here we discuss isolation further... Over beers and tunes of course2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »@lightman1
Make sure when you are here we discuss isolation further... Over beers and tunes of course
Isolation... the method by which @lightman separates the weak from the strong by shepherding them in a corner... whereby he strikes.....
P.S. @lightman1 I must say your humor and ability to take jokes is much appreciated."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »@lightman1
Make sure when you are here we discuss isolation further... Over beers and tunes of course
Isolation... the method by which @lightman separates the weak from the strong by shepherding them in a corner... whereby he strikes.....
P.S. @lightman1 I must say your humor and ability to take jokes is much appreciated.
Dangit! He's on to me. Gotta change up my modus operandi. -
txcoastal1 wrote: »@lightman1
Make sure when you are here we discuss isolation further... Over beers and tunes of course
You know it!
Can anybody find that thread of the ultimate isolation sub-panel? Thought I had it bookmarked. -
txcoastal1 wrote: »@lightman1
Make sure when you are here we discuss isolation further... Over beers and tunes of course
You know it!
Can anybody find that thread of the ultimate isolation sub-panel? Thought I had it bookmarked.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2219540#Comment_2219540"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Thanks, big D!
-
How about this. Listen with your amp plugged into your power strip, then with it straight into the wall. If you can't hear a difference you can sleep well.
This all Day. Twice on Tuesday.Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
Thanks, big D!
Aint no thing.
But just so you know, breaker boxes dont matter, nor do cables, or even file format.
My WMA FILES RULE ALL!"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Electricians don't matter either.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
-
What strip surge protector do you have that is rated to pass high current? None of those inexpensive units come with a decent power cord/plug.
I did have one a while back that was more of a commercial, although more computer grade, that I got for a deal, but it lead its life, became a power strip and I think adopted by a friend. That was rated for 20-25A. I thought I had gotten similar ones, but in checking around I see that most everything is 15A. The same as most wall plugs. I stand corrected.
I currently have an APC C10, for my gear and an APC-UPS 500 (no battery) for my amp ATM. I have (had?) 3 other high end ~$200 retail Monster (opinions vary) surge protectors that I got for a bargain, but I have yet to find them since I moved.
Since I was thinking about getting some replacements along with gear I wanted to see what people use, if anything.What level of amps would you say are effected by a surge protector in the line? What type, class, of amps are more effected?
Once you get past consumer grade gear.
Any examples of a rough line? Higher end consumer that you feel may not pass? Lower cost exotics or a type of amplifier? I could see Class A amps being moreHow about this. Listen with your amp plugged into your power strip, then with it straight into the wall. If you can't hear a difference you can sleep well.
Agreed. TBH my listening room is far from ideal atm, so I doubt there will be much difference, but an easy enough thing to try. Maybe sometimes ignorance is bliss if you don't know what you're missing.
Sadly it's been a while since I have heard very high end / extreme gear in a proper room etc. -
Lightman, I am a salesman for the largest utility distributor in the US. I sell all that junk you use. All distribution and transmission, including the substation to the meter on the house and everything in between. Also street lighting and area lighting.
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel…….Samuel Johnson
Since we don’t know where we are going we have to stick together in case someone gets there….Ken Kesey
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
– Kevin Alfred Strom -
rednedtugent wrote: »"I'm honestly curious about the affect of a 3' cable at the end of the chain."
You are focusing on one "link" in the chain.
"Belkin Commercial Surge Protector" Hmmm.
"Panamax MAX500 DBS" how do you like these?
Honest question (sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet), are you saying Belkin Commercial is lumped in with cheap Belkin (I'm not really familiar with their commercial line) or ok stuff, but not for audio, and I assume you like the Panamax. Assuming you do, the next question becomes would you put it between an amp and the wall? -
motorhead43026 wrote: »Lightman, I am a salesman for the largest utility distributor in the US. I sell all that junk you use. All distribution and transmission, including the substation to the meter on the house and everything in between. Also street lighting and area lighting.
I'll bet $3 Canadian it starts with a W..... -
However I am reluctant as we live in a new build and they are still building a couple blocks away and we never know when they will shut down the power to hook up more houses. What kind of damage if any could be caused to my amp?
No different than you hitting the power switch.
Generally I would say yes, but there can be many transients that go through the line depending on the loads. Appliances have been taken out. -
So far there is some good information all around. A summary as of now IMO, direct to the wall is best, assuming you have good clean power coming in and there isn't a thunderstorm passing trough, because unless your room is a sound booth, I think the rain and thunder will detrimentally effect your listening experience. The question to me becomes what do you do when you are not listening to your system? IMO on a clear lovely day its easy enough to power off, plug into a wall, and power it back up. The next question is how good, really, is your power coming in? What do you want between your wall and gear and / or amp?
I know there are extremes, but from a car perspective I value the input and experience of supercar people who like to share there love of cars, and good practical knowledge with people who will never afford or own a super car, and the mansions needed to house them.
And to @lightman1 with your profile pic, I keep reading you as lighteningman1. I am not sure if it is a perfect fit for this thread, we all need to buy protection, or unplug our equipment and run. (said with all forms of humor and sarcasm implied) 
-
Zero perspiration, cumquat.
-
motorhead43026 wrote: »Lightman, I am a salesman for the largest utility distributor in the US. I sell all that junk you use. All distribution and transmission, including the substation to the meter on the house and everything in between. Also street lighting and area lighting.
I'll bet $3 Canadian it starts with a W.....
Wesco?, I used to work for them when it was Westinghouse 25 years ago.
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel…….Samuel Johnson
Since we don’t know where we are going we have to stick together in case someone gets there….Ken Kesey
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
– Kevin Alfred Strom -
I did have one a while back that was more of a commercial, although more computer grade, that I got for a deal, but it lead its life, became a power strip and I think adopted by a friend. That was rated for 20-25A. I thought I had gotten similar ones, but in checking around I see that most everything is 15A. The same as most wall plugs. I stand corrected.
No worries, I was simply curious. I had a hard time even finding a 20 amp rated bench power strip for my shop.Any examples of a rough line? Higher end consumer that you feel may not pass? Lower cost exotics or a type of amplifier? I could see Class A amps being more
If you're buying a $500.00 AVR from Best Buy chances are it won't make a difference.Maybe sometimes ignorance is bliss if you don't know what you're missing.
Truer words were never spoken.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
However I am reluctant as we live in a new build and they are still building a couple blocks away and we never know when they will shut down the power to hook up more houses. What kind of damage if any could be caused to my amp?
No different than you hitting the power switch.
Generally I would say yes, but there can be many transients that go through the line depending on the loads. Appliances have been taken out.
If that has happened where you live now something is wrong.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
motorhead43026 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »Lightman, I am a salesman for the largest utility distributor in the US. I sell all that junk you use. All distribution and transmission, including the substation to the meter on the house and everything in between. Also street lighting and area lighting.
I'll bet $3 Canadian it starts with a W.....
Wesco?, I used to work for them when it was Westinghouse 25 years ago.
I owe you about 48 cents, amuricun. -
I'm not saying anything really. Just trying to understand where people are coming from. I was a fan of tripplite ISObar for strips. $100.00 or something.
People seem to like the panamax as an o.k. cheaper solution.
Just asking what the experience was.
If people think it is snake oil its o.k. with me.rednedtugent wrote: »"I'm honestly curious about the affect of a 3' cable at the end of the chain."
You are focusing on one "link" in the chain.
"Belkin Commercial Surge Protector" Hmmm.
"Panamax MAX500 DBS" how do you like these?
Honest question (sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet), are you saying Belkin Commercial is lumped in with cheap Belkin (I'm not really familiar with their commercial line) or ok stuff, but not for audio, and I assume you like the Panamax. Assuming you do, the next question becomes would you put it between an amp and the wall?
-
The Belkin surge protector that I have is quite inexpensive and it isn't really running any big items. The laptop is plugged into it when it's charging and the ASUS bridge and Netgear switch are plugged into it as well. So,my media server is connected to it but I'm not having any noise issues there.Honest question (sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet), are you saying Belkin Commercial is lumped in with cheap Belkin (I'm not really familiar with their commercial line) or ok stuff, but not for audio, and I assume you like the Panamax. Assuming you do, the next question becomes would you put it between an amp and the wall?
In regards to the Panamax(s) I don't notice that they're doing anything. I wouldn't plug my amp directly into the wall where I live now. I don't hear any noise in my set up, and I've never heard noise in the past either so, I guess, they're doing their job.
I used to have an APC H10 and I liked it a lot but it wasn't being used for a long time so I sold it here on the forum.
If money was no object, I'd go with the PS Audio suggestions made by F1nut.
Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
You won't hear the noise, it's not something you would notice until it's diminished.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I guess I mean noise like a ground loop hum or something along those lines.Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
Hissing in the background, etcAudio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
![[Deleted User]](https://w4.vanillicon.com/40bc09a87daec053937ab0249c85e591_100.png)
