Which would yield the better performance gain-high end interconnects or spk.wire?
Answers
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afterburnt wrote: »I am a bit confused, what kind of hot dogs should I try?
If you look at the nutritional information on the back of the pack, and it is similar, the hot dogs will taste exactly the same. I have never eaten a hot dog.
Then you, sir, have no qualifications to to judge the finer points of hot dog consumption.
Begone, Judas!
Allegorical. -
afterburnt wrote: »I am a bit confused, what kind of hot dogs should I try?
If you look at the nutritional information on the back of the pack, and it is similar, the hot dogs will taste exactly the same. I have never eaten a hot dog.
Then you, sir, have no qualifications to to judge the finer points of hot dog consumption.
Begone, Judas!
Allegorical.
Only to bee stings. But thanks for asking!
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Well, it was only a matter of time.
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I like watching sausage being made.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
afterburnt wrote: »I am a bit confused, what kind of hot dogs should I try?
Costco, $1.50 for a dog or polish and a pop. Best budget meal ever... -
Vienna beef dogs for us Chicagoans.
If your ears cant hear the difference, it might not be your equipment but your own ears. Im not trying to come across harsh but I do jave some friends that cannot hear the difference on cables or even preamps when others in the same room say the difference on this or that is dramatic.
I'm not saying you don't have a point for yourself or for some that can't hear a difference but to make that type of generalization of there is no difference because good wire transfers the signa and should be colorless is crazy. Even the best of the best amp or pre even though it should have no color still has a flavor of the manufacturer. Same with wire. It shouldn't make a difference and pass through the signal but other factors come into play. Otherwise we would all be running 22 gauge rat shack wire.
Now I want a freaking hotdog thanks. Im trying to get into bikini shape for the summer!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
That reminds me I have to renew my membership and buy some big ticket item to justify it.
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I knew my maker put me next to a portillos for a reason.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Sausage pie.....
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I knew my maker put me next to a portillos for a reason.
I like Makers Mark. It's next to me now!
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Vienna beef dogs for us Chicagoans.
If your ears cant hear the difference, it might not be your equipment but your own ears. Im not trying to come across harsh but I do jave some friends that cannot hear the difference on cables or even preamps when others in the same room say the difference on this or that is dramatic.
I'm not saying you don't have a point for yourself or for some that can't hear a difference but to make that type of generalization of there is no difference because good wire transfers the signa and should be colorless is crazy. Even the best of the best amp or pre even though it should have no color still has a flavor of the manufacturer. Same with wire. It shouldn't make a difference and pass through the signal but other factors come into play. Otherwise we would all be running 22 gauge rat shack wire.
Now I want a freaking hotdog thanks. Im trying to get into bikini shape for the summer!
Back to the subject at hand.
If you frequent many audio/sound/pro-sound/recording forums, you will find that every forum has a different take on this tired subject.
He is saying, here is what Physics says, and here is what Blind test results are.
Not sure if the burden of proof, lies on him really, or those saying they do hear meaningful changes?
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Those Boars Head are really good but those old style Hebrew Nationals were big fat juicy dogs!
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If you're happy with your coat hangers, awesome. I like my new MIT StyleLines. Dim the lights, get comfortable, put on a record, and enjoy. That's all that really matters.
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
I am happy with Wireworld IC's and 10ga Belden speaker cables for now.
Next, I am going to spend my money on improving the acoustics in my listening room as I believe this is the best bang for the buck for my system.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
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Me wants a hot dog too.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
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"He is saying, here is what Physics says, and here is what Blind test results are."
Which two do you want?
Then you would agree that different metals have different conductive
properties right?
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rednedtugent wrote: »"He is saying, here is what Physics says, and here is what Blind test results are."
Which two do you want?
Then you would agree that different metals have different conductive
properties right?
A blind physicist should have the bases covered, no? -
ken brydson wrote: »
Think I offended meself.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
^^^^^^+1
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It may be 1% to some, but they would be sadly mistaken.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Going by MSRP...
$1.5k speakers cables, $500 interconnects, $1k speakers, $1.2k preamp, $1.3k amp
Don't look at it in percentages, look at your system as a whole. All of it matters.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Tony, yes your question was good. I didn't see it on my computer at first. Seems like there's a delay until posts appear when I'm online.
You're right, I have not experimented with a lot of wires. I have tried a few. I don't hear any difference between wires.
My experience has been that if I don't know which wire I'm listening to, there is no difference. My buddy demonstrated for me an expensive audioquest interconnect and a cheap monster interconnect without telling me which was which.
I couldn't hear any difference.
My opinion is based mostly on common sense.
Thing is, digital audio is a binary number stream. There is no "sound quality". It's a sequence of ones and zeros. Ones and zeros are all the same, would you agree?
No, I would not agree. While in theory the 1's and 0's are the same, it's the transfer and converting to analog that makes a difference. We weren't even talking digital cables, just analog.
Your analogy of a cable being defective if it sounds like something is wrong. Some suggest that if a cable transfers a signal from point A to point B, their is nothing more it can do. By the same token, do all cdp's sound the same, all blu-ray players look the same, all speakers sound the same ?
Of course not, different parts used, different designs and build quality, many variables go into making one product sound different than another. Cables are no different.
Cables are one of those things that everyone argues over. Mainly between those with experience with various brands and price points and those without. It's one of those things that you have to experience before passing judgment. The best way to do that is get yourself to a Polk get together in your neck of the woods. I can tell you in all honesty, that many here thought as you did, then they had an ah-ha moment in their journey and never looked back.
Audio is one of discovery, a constant learning and listening experience. Don't limit your knowledge with others who have no intentions of discovering anything.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Cables are one of those things that everyone argues over. Mainly between those with experience with various brands and price points and those without. It's one of those things that you have to experience before passing judgment. The best way to do that is get yourself to a Polk get together in your neck of the woods. I can tell you in all honesty, that many here thought as you did, then they had an ah-ha moment in their journey and never looked back.
Audio is one of discovery, a constant learning and listening experience. Don't limit your knowledge with others who have no intentions of discovering anything.
Respectfully disagree.
The debate is far simpler!
Person "XYZ" makes a claim that is unsubstantiated, on an audio internet forum.
Person "ZYX" Says that without more in depth proof, the claim does not hold a lot of water"
Person "XWZ" then goes on a "Internet Tirade" about how they know for sure what they hear is real, person ZYX must bad hearing, unable to hear what they hear, or having mediocre equipment that is unable to showcase the differences, or simply are a hater, troll, a non believer, or worse.....
Sound Familiar?
It is internet bickering at it's simplest. Nothing more.
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....and I would respectfully disagree. Simply way too many variables for blanket statements and when asked about details all you get is crickets.
The devil is always in the details, which naysayers are always willing to leave out. Sometimes it is indeed their gear is simply not revealing, hearing compromised, or lack of training to even know what they are listening for. Sometimes even, the source material is MP3's and the listening environment is casual, in which case most anything won't make too much a difference under those conditions.
We all hear differently no doubt, and seemingly won't admit we lose some as we age. Ask my wife, she'll tell ya about my selective hearing.
Audio is not a glove that fits everyones needs, not a one size fits all thing. That's why we have such a variety of gear, speakers, and yes....cables. You can't justify a stance with blanket statements for all to adhere to.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
The movie Somm is about a small group of people trying out for the title of Master Sommelier. There is an extremely difficult taste test as well as written exams. Anyone can read the source materials and study for the written exams, and potentially pass them. But the tasting is where the real test begins.
Everyones tastes are different, but it was amazing to see how many of the applicants separately described a wine, in a blind taste test, with the exactly the same adjectives. One of them was asked how they could use terms like "tastes like laurel petals" or "tastes like new leather and juniper berries". Their answer was that you can only describe it that way if you have tasted every one of those things.
Just trying to use this to possibly illustrate @tonyb 's point above. I can enjoy wine as it is, but my examples of the flavors and aroma are limited to those I have experienced. -
I've been an audiophile for 40 years, and I can't think of any scientific reason why separate amp/pre should sound better than a good AVR. Or why my system sometimes sounds real good and sometimes it sounds like crap. Unlistenable crap. I suspect there is a lot more going on in our heads than we think, or are aware of. This is why differences in sound quality tend to disappear in blind testing. Also humans have poor auditory memory. Our visual memory is good, but we have almost zero auditory memory. Iv'e tried to compare CD to SACD by playing each one after the other, and my brain just can't do it. I suspect that those who claim to hear a difference are simply not aware of their own preconception bias. But maybe their ears are better than mine. I still love gear, and my next purchase is gonna be Martin Logan electrostatics. Maybe the superior resolution of the new speakers will reveal these differences in sound quality? My current ones are Polk Rtia5's. Also I wan't to order a Marantz reference integrated. Is anyone here familiar with this amp?
This one is also pretty classic. From discussion:
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2181795/#Comment_2181795
My work here is done. I will sit back and watch for now. Good times....
and......your point was what?
David, my point was that your level of experience as an audiophile shines thru in the previous posts and discussions.
You stated that you have limited time in researching and testing different cables. Your opinion was made up pretty quickly.
The forum has been down this discussion path many times. Check previous post and you will see. Majority of the time it is a member with limited knowledge that questions, or states as fact, that cables are just cables.
I suggest offering your opinion but back it up with the facts available. Not just make blanket statements that are unsupported. Many on this site will try to help guide you thru the journey.
I try not to participate in the cable discussions but one thing is for sure. I could see where this was going yesterday when I made my posts.
2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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