Laserdisc-The godfather of ALL consumer optical disc media

honestaquarian

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-DVL-H9-Laserdisc-Player-CD-DVD-Compatible-100V-NTSC-USED-JAPAN-elite-box/192751875505?hash=item2ce0e835b1:rk:5:pf:0

honestaquarian

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-HLD-X0-Reference-Laserdisc-Player-MUSE-HD-100V-NTSC-USED-JAPAN-elite-LD/192726323484?hash=item2cdf62511c:rk:4:pf:0


@SIHAB
You think that one is bad. Get a load of these two, which are essentially the same player as the LD-S2. Except they are early MUSE high definition.

honestaquarian

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-ELITE-CLD-99-Laser-Disc-Player-VSX-99-Receiver-MA-3-Mixer-NIC/323555344811?hash=item4b5566c1ab:g:wrcAAOSwB19b8Esn:rk:9:pf:0

FestYboy

Wish I bought one years ago when they were worthless...

@honestaquarian unfortunately those are all a bit out of budget...

Quick question: if the video is uncompressed, what's it's native resolution? 480p?

honestaquarian

@FestYboy (here is where you hear some collective background groans and someone says "Oh gawd, don't get HIM started!")
The reason why the discs are so big is because it is uncompressed analog video. When the format first appeared the audio was also uncompressed analog audio. The same format that first Beta and then VHS HIFI used to use for the audio called AFM (Audio Frequency Modulation-Drop the "A" and do you recognize what's left??) Anyway the resolution of the NTSC format that is used in the US for analog video is 525 lines of resolution. Of the 525 lines only 482 are visible. Laserdisc was capable of between 425 and 450 lines of resolution. DVD was capable of all 482 (and as you can see there wasn't much difference between the two. Except DVD is smaller and uses compressed digital video and has flat frequency response all the way up to the top. Unlike Laserdisc which begins rolling off as it reaches the top. Just like in audio-video has the detail in the high frequencies and DVD showed small details like hair better than Laserdisc.
Also the reason why you saw 480 and not 482 is simply because it was rounded off. The format is not progressive scan, it is interlace scan. So it's 425-450i versus DVD's 482p.
Interlace scanning is an old method of saving signal space when broadcasting analog television. It uses almost half the bandwidth (signal space) of progressive scan pictures.So they could put more TV channels on the air. It actually had some advantages back in the day over progressive when it came to fast motion video.

honestaquarian

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-CLD-59/323445298707?hash=item4b4ed79613:g:jYkAAOSwhUtbZ17W:rk:20:pf:0

This one is for local pickup only though.
Patience and you can find a decent one that you can afford @FestYboy

honestaquarian

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DVL-919-LaserDisc-Multi-Disc-DVD-and-CD-Player-/173664743802?oid=254008062410

I used to own one of these. The Elite DVL-91 is based on this one, but is a MUCH better player. I currently own an Elite DVL-91

dolbyd

honestaquarian wrote: »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DVL-919-LaserDisc-Multi-Disc-DVD-and-CD-Player-/173664743802?oid=254008062410

I used to own one of these. The Elite DVL-91 is based on this one, but is a MUCH better player. I currently own an Elite DVL-91

I have a 919 still.
I had 3 LD players back in the day. VCR's were only for recording your missed shows.
I enjoyed those days in AV.
I remember having a connection at the local Media Play store. He would get LD's from Japan that we had to special order. He would order 2 and give me his cost. He saved me tons of money.

verb

This seems like a good deal. 2 hundie OBO.

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ele/d/pioneer-elite-dvl-90-ld-dvd/6740975778.html

mlistens03

Just out of interest, what is the advantage to LaserDisc that makes it so (relatively) sought after? What makes it better than, say, Blu-Ray DVDs? I mean, you did say it was 480p, or 450i, right?
Other than cool factor of course. They are pretty cool.

pitdogg2

mlistens03 wrote: »

Just out of interest, what is the advantage to LaserDisc that makes it so (relatively) sought after? What makes it better than, say, Blu-Ray DVDs? I mean, you did say it was 480p, or 450i, right?
Other than cool factor of course. They are pretty cool.

Uncompressed video vs DVD and VHS
But not better than bluray. It doesn't have the lines of resolution that bluray has.

honestaquarian

With the exception of internet access capabilities, pretty much everything that you can do with DVD and later Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray, Laserdisc had first. Extras like directors commentary, music videos, documentaries, alternate endings, cast bio's, special editions. ALL of that stuff is what made this format so special to Laser aficionados. Nevermind the fact that up until he advent of the DVD format, this was the best you could do picture quality-wise in the consumer arena. VHS and Beta could not compete. Nor did they offer the extras that Laserdisc offered. There are still many offerings that were available on Laserdisc which were never released on any other format to this day.
A friend brought over a special edition of Disney's Beauty and the Beast that was an unfinished version which was shown at some expedition in advance of the film's release in order to show certain people the progress they were making on the film. It has animated black and white drawings mixed with finished sections of the movie. It was a fascinating dive into what it took to make an animated film that you cannot get on any other format and is of a type that you will never see again.

honestaquarian

Also the first appearance of discreet, multi channel digital audio formats like Dolby Digital and DTS was on Laserdisc.

mlistens03

Interesting.
That’s very cool. I shouldn’t have asked though, because now when I get a TV I’m gonna have to hunt down a LaserDisc player to.

honestaquarian

This title is a very good example of some of the things I am talking about concerning how Laserdisc lead all other optical disc formats. First of all it was precisely because of the two separate SKU's for the Dolby Digital and DTS that retailers forced the disc makers when DVD came out to find a way to combine the two audio formats on one disc. Or to choose one. They didn't want to have to carry two separate SKU's for the same title.
Then there was the extras that they packed this movie with.
They put a directors commentary on the left channel of the stereo analog soundtrack. The right channel on the DD disc was the DD (AC-3) encoding. On the DTS disc the right channel had a mono soundtrack.
Also at the end of the movie was a TV show called "The world of 007" Hosted by Elizabeth Hurley.
Then there were various trailers shown around the world and the discs were capped off with the Tina Turner Goldeneye music video.
Each section had an interesting feature where the disc would send a command to the player to go into pause mode with text on the screen about what was coming up next and what the owner could do to get to the next section.

Note to all of you DVD and Blu-ray aficionados-does any of this look familiar????

pitdogg2

Yes originally DVD's were the same DTS or DD but not on the same disc.
Depending on movie length some DVD's were 2 disc's or you had to flip the disc

honestaquarian

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Yes originally DVD's were the same DTS or DD but not on the same disc.
Depending on movie length some DVD's were 2 disc's or you had to flip the disc

Yes
DTS DVD's were a lot rarer than Dolby Digital DVD's because DTS took up a LOT MORE disc space. Mainly because it used a lot less lossy compression that DD did. Then under pressure from the retailers and disc makers they compressed it more in order to get it to fit on a disc along with the DD soundtrack.
DTS soundtracks compressed 5.1 channels into the same 1.5 MBPS (MegaBit Per Second) datastream size that the two channels of a Compact Disc uses. Which is why the DTS soundtrack on a Laserdisc replaces the two channel 16 bit PCM digital audio soundtrack.
The Dolby Digital [formerly known as Dolby AC-3 and Dolby SRD(Spectral Recording-Dolby's Noise reduction/Dynamic range enhancement technology for analog tape that came waayyyy too late in the game to save analog tape, but gave an analog master tape the same or more dynamic range as a digital recording-which also spun off Dolby S noise reduction for cassette tapes)Digital] soundtrack was about 384 KBPS (KiloBits Per Second-MUCH smaller than a DTS soundtrack) on a Laserdisc and was modulated onto the FM carrier of the AFM analog soundtrack on the right channel of the Laserdisc. Which is why you needed an RF Demodulator to extract the digital bitstream from the FM carrier and send it on to the DD decoder in order to extract the 5.1 channel soundtrack.
When DVD's first came out they had the same size bitstream as a laserdisc for the DD soundtrack and could go as high as 420 KBPS. DTS bitstreams started off at 1.5MBPS until industry pressure forced them to cut it in half to 768KBPS in order to have both soundtracks on the same disc that you could choose from.

GospelTruth

Reading this thread is a great trip down memory lane.

I had a Pioneer CLD-502 and then CLD-704 up until about 10 years ago. I had a good collection of movies as well. Back in the 90's I would rent the LD movies at a local movie place and then record them on S-VHS to watch again later. With the laser disc, there was no macrovision protection so there was no issue making the copies. Then I would have the movies in letterbox as well. All looked great on a 32" Sony Trinitron back in the day.

I used to love going to the video store and looking through the laser discs for sale. It was like records, only video. At the cost back then, I would save up to buy a movie I really wanted like Braveheart, or Saving Private Ryan. They were pricey back then compared to today - but I thought it was worth the cost.

I ended up getting rid of the laser discs after doing a comparison using my HD projector with the laser disc version of Saving Private Ryan, the DTS DVD and the blu-ray. DVD was definitely better on a 110" screen than the laser disc. And no question, the blu-ray way out performed the DVD. Now having the 4k version of Saving Private Ryan, even that smashed the blu-ray. It was hard to let go of the laser disc stuff as there were so many audio/visual memories that went along with it. But it just didn't make sense to move all that when the wife and I moved out west. So I cut that out of the system and sold it. I still have fond memories of that era, but don't miss having them.

For the record, I still have a few cassette decks to listen to a bunch of cassettes I still have and some that I still need to record to digital. That is one thing I still hold on to from my younger days. I miss being able to hold the media (record, tape, laser disc) jackets and reading all the information on them. Something you just don't have today as much.

This thread does bring back good memories of a time gone by.

honestaquarian

@GospelTruth
Just out of curiosity, did you ever try using a scaler(previously known as Line doubler-but was later changed to scaler, because they didn’t just simply double the available lines of resolution anymore) when you used your Laserdiscs on a two piece projector? Most would do that because when you blew the picture up any larger than that which a one piece rear projector would give you. The picture would not look all that great without some help. The same could be said of satellite tv for example back when they used those great big, giant dishes.

GospelTruth

@honestaquarian

I never did use a scaler or line doubler back in the day. While it may have helped, the receiver I had would upscale the image anyway. The picture didn't have issues with the interlaced signal - it was just a softer picture compared to DVD and bluray. I know you like the old format, I just couldn't justify keeping it for the quality of the picture presented. It was fun to watch a movie on it now and then, but I prefer to watch the movie in the best visual format possible. Laser Disc just isn't up to the same level as blu-ray or a well coded DVD in my opinion.

Additionally, to get it to play on a 16x9 screen, you would have to use the zoom feature on the display - especially with letterbox movies. There was no anamorphic laser discs to my knowledge so the bars at the top and bottom were baked into the image on the discs as they were made for the 4x3 TV displays of the time.

I forgot to mention that I also had a Yamaha AC-3 demodulator to extract the dolby digital 5.1 sound. Worked like a champ. I still remember most of the discs, expecially the DTS ones, having that DTS sound intro just like the theaters. Everyone who came over and heard it thought it was so cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtzEa62KXBE

pitdogg2

I always loved the DTS and THX stuff at the beginning of a movie. Some were FRIGHTENING to say the least.

honestaquarian

@GospelTruth Actually there WERE some anamorphic Laserdisc titles out there. Most were Japan only, but there were four that I know of which were released with some Toshiba widescreen TVs. I have one or two anamorphic titles. They had pushed hard for years to get more anamorphic titles out as well as pressing the discs in the same way that DVD’s later were done. So that you could use the component video outputs. Both efforts obviously failed when DVD came along and put the final nail in Laserdiscs coffin.
I agree with you about the picture on very large screens. This is why most people would use scalers.

honestaquarian

@pitdogg2 Even some of the Dolby trailers were pretty good demo material.

pitdogg2

honestaquarian wrote: »

@pitdogg2 Even some of the Dolby trailers were pretty good demo material.

Oh I agree, they just didn't do it as much as DTS and THX. few and far between from my experience. Maybe I missed a few at the movies never went but on DVD I never seen them as much.... or heck I might of just jumped past.

honestaquarian

https://youtu.be/pWcc96o_Vck

This is a series of Dolby trailers (as well as some THX and others mixed in for good measure) When the first one finishes let it play and the rest of them will come on. That feature, however only works from YouTube directly. It will only play one of them on here.

pitdogg2

sorry man use a tracfone so completely loses it effect LOL.
I'll check them out monday at work still will be computer speakers

BlueFox

I have to admit that I am really amazed how an old, dead technology is still being discussed. What’s next? Tubes.

nooshinjohn

BlueFox wrote: »

I have to admit that I am really amazed how an old, dead technology is still being discussed. What’s next? Tubes.

Perhaps Gramophones will make a comeback too. I understand Jesse has quite the collection of them.

honestaquarian

My Cassette tapes give me great pleasure

honestaquarian

In the meantime............