Should we change the Flea Market Rules?

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

Polk never has and never will take any responsibility for any transaction in the FM. It's in the rules,

Nor should Polk be required/expected to. That's the reason why the 100 post rule should be required for BOTH buyers and sellers, IMO.

rooftop59

Okay a couple links and then I am done. As Paul stated I think that we are at what philosophers call a "dialectical stalemate" (nerds!!!). When intuitions/opinions are strong, "facts" and rational argument don't really affect anyone's position unfortunately. However, two pieces of evidence to note:

1.https://web.archive.org/web/20141019210839/http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/98162/before-you-post-read-this#latest

Notice that there is nothing in the rules as of 2010 about buyers, only sellers.

2. http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/102710/polk-cs400i-110-plus-shipping

This was my first sale. To a newbie who admittedly never returned, so of course sometimes those folks won't stick around (which was never my main argument to begin with, but a potential side affect). No polkies complained. Others had their shot, no one bit, so I sold to however had the funds. Seems like a reasonable, functional system. Only "trusted" sellers who can clearly state the rules of their sale (i.e. polkies get first crack, two level pricing, whatever). Open to any buyer the seller is willing to work with. Of course, the seller can refuse to sell to anyone.

Also, notice this one in 2011, same rules, same situation: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/118286/dayton-titanic-mkiii-10in-subwoofer-175 Great price, polkies had plenty chance (sat for a month), newbie bought. No one complained. WTF is the problem then???

Finally, as many have stated, the problem is that once this is listed on the internets for anyone who knows how to use google to see, its very difficult to sell it at a higher price (even just to cover the fees) elsewhere. You are pretty much stuck at your "polkie" price. So unless the FM is closed to newbies, I don't see another "rational" option.

And that is all. Not sure what to do with this poll. If nothing else we have some "hard" data...

tonyb

Integrity is key to our FM. If one member buys a product from another member, his chances of a good transaction are greatly increased, though not guaranteed. If something goes south, the other members will hound them to make it right or make it very uncomfortable for them here. That's the allure of our FM....good prices on decent gear between people of integrity.

That said, right now the FM is loaded with well priced stuff, even half off retail stuff....and still sits. People don't have that disposable income anymore and future uncertain expenditures are weighing on their minds. So while some of us are still doing good financially, the portion of able bodied buyers is shrinking daily. Do the math, expose your items to more well to do sites for a better chance of a sale.

rooftop59

tonyb wrote: »

Do the math, expose your items to more well to do sites for a better chance of a sale.

I understand, but my point is that if you have offered a rock bottom price here, and don't have the rep/posts to list on other free forums (which I don't; as I said, this is the only forum of any kind that I frequent), then you have to resort to fleabay or audiogon, where the fees are killer and therefore you have to up the price. Now you're screwed because any joe shmo can find the same exact item here for less, but can't purchase.

And no, this isn't about the fees. Its about offering a great deal to polkies, but then when no one buys, the seller is screwed. If we don't change something the FM might dry up along with the rest of the forum...

Inspector 24

I see the term 'trusted seller' being thrown around a lot. 100 posts does not instantly make a trusted seller, a history of good transactions makes a trusted seller.

Polkie2009

I hear where you're coming from Inspector, any jackhole can post 1spit out a 100 post in short order. Thank God we have a loyal group of regular members who look out for each other & who will spot this type and warn other members to be cautious. People are_ waking up to the fact that the global economy is ready for a major correction, China today had to devalue it's own currency(yuan). September is coming.

daddyjt

In my humble (and admittedly "noob") opinion, it's time for the moderator (admin?) to make a decision on this, explain the decision, stick to the decision, and move on.

motorhead43026

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I hear where you're coming from Inspector, any jackhole can post 1spit out a 100 post in short order. Thank God we have a loyal group of regular members who look out for each other & who will spot this type and warn other members to be cautious. People are_ waking up to the fact that the global economy is ready for a major correction, China today had to devalue it's own currency(yuan). September is coming.

Not much upside left, but plenty of downside for the markets. I am personally all cash @ this time.

rooftop59

motorhead43026 wrote: »

Make sure your 401K's are in defensive mode. Not much upside left but plenty of downside. I personally am all cash @ this time.

I am thinking that maybe gold bars is the way to go at this point!

As for the mods making a decision, I think that is just Ken at this point. I think if we told him we had a decision he would change it or perhaps run it up the chain. But I am little hesitant since no single position has majority, although #3 does have twice as many votes as any other choice...

[Deleted User]

I'm fine with whatever seems to be the consensus of opinion. Am I correct that the most votes seem to indicate that the selling limits remain and the buying limits are determined by the seller?
In other words a person is required to post at least 100 meaningful posts before being permitted to offer something for sale. The person who is selling the item can state either there's no restrictions on who may buy or establish whatever requirements they prefer at the time of offering the item.
This make sense?

rooftop59

Hi Ken,
Yes, that was my intent when I worded number 3. The rule for selling remains the same (100 posts); the minimum post requirement for buyers is removed and left up to the seller to state certain stipulations up front if s/he wishes.
Paul

[Deleted User]

I understand, would anyone care to write how the rule should read? Be happy to post it.

boston1450

Well i broke down & voted #1. I think if they open it up to Tom Dick Harry your gonna see others join just for that & rumor will get out & the race will be on

Hermitism

This has already been suggested, but wasn't exactly an option in the poll. How about having the best of both worlds...100 minimum to buy or sell for the first x-amount of time. Two weeks, three weeks, whatever, then if it doesn't sell after the allotted time, it is up to the buyer to sell to whomever they please, regardless of post count. That gives Polkies first buying rights, then if it doesn't sell it gives the seller more options.

StevieB

vcwatkins wrote: »

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.

I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.

This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.

I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.

VC, I read that thread and re-read that thread. And I sincerely do not see any sort of exclusionary attitude.
A number of well-established members (F1, H9, Tonyb, Dskip, etc) offered well wishes AND made note of several facts that the OP should be aware of. Trying to create a copy of a speaker that sounds like another speaker involves more than copying the cabinet and crossovers.
Reasonable questions were asked of the OP.
References were made light-heartedly of Ben's Frankenpolks as a friendly "warning shot across the bow" that others had attempted projects of a similar nature with less than desireable results.
And so forth.
If that sort of interaction is felt to scare of newbies, than ...... I don't know. God help us all ?

The OP had already spent a significant amount of money on components for his project. I would ASSUME that he had some fabrication experience and had downloaded design software to help in his build.
I say ASSUME because he didn't mention anything. It would have been nice if he had.

I sincerely don't see anything in the linked thread that would scare off a newbie. To me, responses of "Oh, that's wonderful" or "Hurray for you" without raising issues of possible landmines is condescending to the OP and is a disservice. 9 months down the road, after the project is completed and the OP posts "Hey, guys, it didn't work out, They don't sound bad, but they don't sound good. What a waste of my money !", then what ? Should the replies be "Yeah, we were pretty sure it wouldn't work" ? That might pi$$ off/scare off the OP. So should our responses be "Oh, that's a shame !" and "Oh, that's too bad !".

That's just my .02 worth. Actually I was kind of long-winded so .,... let's make it $1.20.

Gotcha Big Blue. We just see it differently and I'm probably being thuper thenthative. But we definitely have different definitions of "well wishes", hehe.

I woulda simply said "good luck" and "let us know how it goes", given the time and effort already put into the project. (Did he seem to be asking for advice?) I get a similar discomfort when I see someone has purchased gear and is understandably excited, and someone poo-poos the thing or says how he would have done it differently. It doesn't do any good at that point and possibly damages the relationship permanently. It's also likely we simply have differing ideas about what is rude or not.

I will likely resolve my concerns re: the forum by reverting to lurk mode.

Peace to all,
Craig

I think I may receive my lurking badge shortly.

[Deleted User]

How about having the voting end midnight eastern standard time this coming Friday?

F1nut

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

How about having the voting end midnight eastern standard time this coming Friday?

I second the motion.

F1nut

Another driver has got to be the mothership, Polk has to promote the forum as a way for those either new or old to Polk to realize there is a community to support it.

Absolutely agreed. The link to the forum on the home page needs to be a lot more obvious. I know Polk used to promote the forum in the owner manuals. I don't know if they still do or not, but if not they should resume that practice.

Nightfall

Edit

Hermitism

It's at the bottom under Resources.

Nightfall

Okay, I see it. I retract my statement, mostly.

rooftop59

I agree that letting the votes go until Friday is a great idea.

I also agree that Polk should actually promote the forum. Despite what they think, I have both facebook and twiitter accounts, but they are used mainly for family and business. They have never had any influence on an single AV product I have purchased; however, this forum has had a HUGE potentially marriage altering effect...promoting the forum is a insanely cheap way to move product.

Inspector 24

Lets have a poll, promote the forums on the main paige more prominently, Yay or nay?

Fast forward...

No surprise, the Yay's win by a landslide!!

Summation. Do. It.

Nightfall

nbrowser wrote: »

^^^^^^THIS!!!!! And getting more Polk employees on here as well, who better to talk up product than them? Seriously, wouldn't it be a treat to have the designer come on for a Q and A about why they did this and that with the LSiM line? Or how they managed to cram so much into the Surroundbar 500 CHT? Or CS people actually providing CS on here and taking some of the load off Mr.S? Just throwing out ideas here!

100% agree.

[Deleted User]

Hear ye, hear ye. The voting will end this Friday, the 14th of August, at 12:00 midnight eastern time zone.

EndersShadow

@Kenneth Swauger

I did a *edit* on the existing rules to "update" them a bit. Open to suggestions/edits/thoughts on them and if once voting ends the option I believe is going to win does win, we should replace whats there with this.


_______________________________________________
Before buying or selling anything on this forum, please see the guidelines and rules for replying, found here:

Buying and Selling Guidelines / Rules of Reply

Note: Polk Audio is not responsible for any of the sales in the Flea Market. All sales are at your own risk.

Do your research about an individual before buying anything. This forum contains the ability to view a member’s threads and posts. Use it.

You must have a total post count of 100 (ie be a contributing member of the forum) before you can sell anything in the "For Sale (FS) Classifieds" forums. This is to establish your reputation as an individual.

It is suggested the right of first refusal should go to other contributing members first, however any seller may sell to any buyer at their discretion and assume any and all risks of said transaction.

Please do not post offers in a thread, this is bad form. Either make contact with the member directly through the Private Messaging Feature (PM), or if your post count is too low to message them directly, post your interest in the item in the thread and ask them to Private Message you. Posts that contain offers will be edited by a moderator to remove the offer and instead request the member contact them regarding the item.

Selling gear "for a friend" is not allowed. A member with over 100 posts needs to take direct ownership and responsibility for the transaction start to finish. There have been a couple bad transactions where the seller has washed his hands of it, since it wasn't "his" originally. Sorry Charlie, if the gear is that good, buy it and sell it under your name and assume responsibility.

Any sale ads that do not meet the criteria above will be removed or closed. Any member seeing a thread that violates these rules should report it to a moderator to be removed or closed. The decision to close or remove a For Sale thread is at the moderators discretion.

Lastly the entire forum is provided at no cost to you by Polk Audio. Please remember to be courteous to new members who are not aware of the rules and direct them here.

Hermitism

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

The voting will end this Friday

97 people have already voted. That means that 40 people signed up/in under a different username and voted twice already!

tonyb

Would be nice to see who voted for what. That way we can see if there is any one post wonders voting.

If you add the first 2 together, it's a close call between those that want some form of post count applied to the buyer and those that want none.

Toolfan66

Funny how the only problem I have ever had in the FM was a long time member at the time, and I never saw my money...

Toolfan66

Well if we are going to have a vote, lets have it on getting rid of vanilla!!! It would win by a landslide and fix all problems.... "for the most part"..