Should we change the Flea Market Rules?

F1nut

To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.

oldrocker

I voted.

I still like this place. I rarely contribute just due to the fact I'm still learning. I don't always ask questions for the answer I need as I'm more a "visual" guy to understand things.

I wish there was a section that showed pictures to some of the answers to peoples questions.

I'd also actually like a "terminology" definition section for some of the comments made.

Once again, mostly the wrong answer on my part to the thread topic...

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.

The fact that so many have voted for #4 goes back to my assertion that many come here to see what deal they can get in the FM then skip town. They don't care about the forum per say, only what they can get on the cheap.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.

The fact that so many have voted for #4 goes back to my assertion that many come here to see what deal they can get in the FM then skip town. They don't care about the forum per say, only what they can get on the cheap.

Could also be some great members that have witnessed the steady decline in member participation, the increased lack of effort put in by Polk to listen to input from members regarding the troll population, vanilla, system showcase, and a host of other issues, and recognize the futility of it all.

BlueFox

It does show Polk they have created a disaster with Vanilla.

polrbehr

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Could also be some great members that have witnessed the steady decline in member participation, the increased lack of effort put in by Polk to listen to input from members regarding the troll population, vanilla, system showcase, and a host of other issues, and recognize the futility of it all.

+1

And FWIW I voted for #2.

pitdogg2

tonyb wrote: »

.....and what the heck ? My dead Grandmother can't vote ?
.....and why can't I vote more than once ?

Chicagoan's jeesh

Inspector 24

F1nut wrote: »

Choice #4 is really not helping matters and it saddens me to see 10 people so far have wasted their vote on that one.

Agree, the wording of #4 is poor at best, however suggesting someones opinion is a waste creates divisivness and precludes the possibility to find out why someone voted that way. Perhaps instead of being insulting, maybe ask if those people would care to explain why they feel that way? I'd like to know myself.

Our FM has an excellent track record when it comes to successful transactions because of the restrictions. In the 12 years I've been here I can count on one hand the number of selling/buying problems. Opening it up to one hit wonders is simply inviting rip off troubles.

Which is why PayPal exists, to protect buyers and sellers. A forums minimum post requirement does nothing to guarantee a buyer/seller won't be defrauded, and if someone is the most recourse a forum has is to warn others and delete their account which won't get any money or product back.

To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.

Sometimes I wish I had more time to sit at the computer. Every now and then I get lucky. But a handful of people posting a lot won't save the forums, that will take a lot of people posting at least a little.

Could also be some great members that have witnessed the steady decline in member participation, the increased lack of effort put in by Polk to listen to input from members regarding the troll population, vanilla, system showcase, and a host of other issues, and recognize the futility of it all.

This. I quit posting for a while when it changed, still don't post as much as I used to, the new site and the associated mobil versions are just not user friendly like good old Vbulletin.

Polkie2009

F1nut wrote: »

By 100 potentially fast, junky, one two three word posts that someone could rip through in an hour if they really wanted to sell/buy here. I've seen it, I'm sure you have.

Those posts are deleted in short order.

A question I haven't seen asked or answered...What is the downside of opening up the FM to all without a post count requirement?

Our FM has an excellent track record when it comes to successful transactions because of the restrictions. In the 12 years I've been here I can count on one hand the number of selling/buying problems. Opening it up to one hit wonders is simply inviting rip off troubles.

I voted #2 , but am happy with #1 as it has provided me with trustworthy established sellers here who are honest, willing to go the extra effort in making a solid, outstanding transaction without worrying whether or not some riffraff is ripping you off. As Jesse has noted, yes, anyone can rip through posting 100 short posts, but you see, many regulars here see through this type of MO and expose the fly by night one hit wonders for who they are. Yes, most forums out there don't allow newbies to buy or sell immediately upon becoming members. Sorry, just the way it is, trust has to be earned, as an old guy, this is how it's always been for me and I'm totally ok with it.

pitdogg2

nooshinjohn wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.

The fact that so many have voted for #4 goes back to my assertion that many come here to see what deal they can get in the FM then skip town. They don't care about the forum per say, only what they can get on the cheap.

Could also be some great members that have witnessed the steady decline in member participation, the increased lack of effort put in by Polk to listen to input from members regarding the troll population, vanilla, system showcase, and a host of other issues, and recognize the futility of it all.

Bingo although I don't consider myself a "great member" . yes I did post more in yrs past have helped and been help by more than a few. But come on Jesse admit it Polk has been a whole lot more receptive to the forum in yrs past. They taken away the very item that drew me here to begin with ... The showcase and the buyer/seller ratings. Dude you have always had a good argument about the " new place" I back that 100%.... My new position at my job conflicts with my participation as well as no home internet. I'm doing this now on my tracfone and it sucks big ones and hurts my eyes. So Polks excuse as to be more moble friendly I call bullhocky....


I voted #4 there I said it give it to if you feel the need....

Ivan

F1nut

John, Ivan....I cannot dispute your points because they are all true. The old Polk conveyed a sense of family, something the new Polk has failed to grasp the importance of. A real shame as it wouldn't take them much effort to do so. Being that as it may, it is up to us to carry the load now and I for one, don't give up easily. So, when I see others throwing in the towel it pisses me off. Who knows, maybe the new Polk will wake up and see the errors of their ways one day. There's a lot of really good people here and I'd hate to more of them leave.

F1nut

Which is why PayPal exists, to protect buyers and sellers.

To the best of my knowledge PP offers no protection unless the transaction is conducted on eBay. Correct me if I'm wrong.

PSOVLSK

F1nut wrote: »

Choice #4 is really not helping matters and it saddens me to see 10 people so far have wasted their vote on that one.

Choice #4 is in 2nd place. WOW! I interpreted #4 as kind of a tongue in cheek shot at the current state of the forum and didn't expect it to get many, if any, votes. Sad indeed.

F1nut

Musings.....if you think this place is dead now you should have seen it when I joined. Probably the same 10 guys posting everyday, but we had a lot of fun and became friends. Frankly, none of us cared how many joined, a non-factor. As the years passed I've seen the membership go up and down, it happens and it will grow again, I'm sure.

pitdogg2

I never said I was giving up or tossing in the towel there hoss...just stating my opinion like or not. Trust me I didn't make it easily. I think there are bigger problems than this 100 post thing... That being said I do what I can until the curtain falls

Inspector 24

F1nut wrote: »

Which is why PayPal exists, to protect buyers and sellers.

To the best of my knowledge PP offers no protection unless the transaction is conducted on eBay. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've dealt with disputes on transactions I didn't know could be disputed. ANY PayPal transaction can have a claim submitted on it, even the no-fee 'sending money to friends and family' option. There's a story behind that one, PM me if you'd like the details.

Fortunately, if you're the buyer, PayPal is almost always on your side. As a seller I cross all the T's and dot all the i's, take detailed pics of the item, packing, and even make a movie of it functioning, and if there's any doubt and/or it's an expensive item, the box being loaded into the UPS truck with proof of receipt from UPS.

On topic, I think we're seeing two different view of how to run the forum. On one side are the business as usual folks who want to keep the post minimums because that's how it's always been done, provides some arguable sense of security for the seller/buyer, and is a privilege to be earned.

On the other side, those that see the flea market as a tool to attract new members, keep site traffic flowing, think the post count minimum is unneeded in the first place, think that it creates an elitist exclusionary atmosphere, and/or think that it doesn't have any real world effect either way.

In summation, I think the larger issue is where the forums are now, and what to do to change it...It seems this minimum post count issue is just a small part of a larger problem.

These types of conversations are much better suited to privacy amongst the leadership/senior members of the forum - no one wants to see the inner workings of the sausage factory.

Unfortunately it seems that hands are somewhat tied when something like Vanilla is forced on the group without any feedback, thus I would argue that it's a good thing to bring topic like this to the general membership for feedback, rather than keep them hidden away in the admin forums.

The FM and the forum are 2 separate entities, who needs the forum if you have access for free to the FM.

A scenario for you, Come to buy Polk gear, ask questions in forums about said polk gear, get great useful info, stick around for more good info, setup advice, share experiences applying said advice, become regular member.

That scenario was my experience.

aprazer402

oldrocker wrote: »

I voted.

I still like this place. I rarely contribute just due to the fact I'm still learning. I don't always ask questions for the answer I need as I'm more a "visual" guy to understand things.

I wish there was a section that showed pictures to some of the answers to peoples questions.

I'd also actually like a "terminology" definition section for some of the comments made.

Once again, mostly the wrong answer on my part to the thread topic...

I voted for #2.

@oldrocker and everyone else, as a member for only about six months now but a reader (lurker) of this forum for several years I would hate to see it's premature demise.

I try to make some posts here and there. I still read an awful lot of the threads and learn (awful is not a bad word choice for some threads). I'm not super knowledgeable about a lot of terminology, especially the newer equipment (AVR's, DAC's, Streaming...)

But I think oldrocker is onto a couple things in his post I quoted above:

In his second paragraph he mentions a possible photo section to help with some common issues. I know we can search for renovation threads etc. but I surmise he's thinking about something different. Oldrocker would you care to elaborate on this?

In his third paragraph he mentions a potential need for a terminology section. This could be as simply or as detailed as necessary. I'm not the correct person to ask about how this could be implemented so if anyone else thinks these are worthwhile pursuing, please chime in.

This may not be the right thread to post this, but it's part of a poll thread regarding changes to improve, grow and sustain the Polk Audio forum. Thanks.

F1nut

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I never said I was giving up or tossing in the towel there hoss...just stating my opinion like or not. Trust me I didn't make it easily. I think there are bigger problems than this 100 post thing... That being said I do what I can until the curtain falls

Sorry Ivan, I wasn't pointing a finger at you and you're certainly not hiding behind your keyboard, which is great.

I know you are, which is also great.

F1nut

I've dealt with disputes on transactions I didn't know could be disputed. ANY PayPal transaction can have a claim submitted on it, even the no-fee 'sending money to friends and family' option. There's a story behind that one, PM me if you'd like the details.

Good to know, thanks!

mrbigbluelight

I voted for #2. In the past, having the selling limit at 100 helped to limit drive-bys. Putting a lower buying limit at 50 does give an interested new newbie a chance to get in on a deal that he might not have normally been able to afford. Let the bug bite him and long term Polk might get a few more retail sales.

Regarding some of the other issues:

iNSPECTOR 24 wrote:

In summation, I think the larger issue is where the forums are now, and what to do to change it...It seems this minimum post count issue is just a small part of a larger problem .

Some of the less than desired situation with the Polk Audio forum can be described as a problem with Polk Aural.
It seems that a little too often the folks steering the boat just ain't listening.
Or are listening to the wrong people.
Vanilla is an example of that.

A whole new thread could be started to avoid diverting this thread's topic.

tonyb

Inspector 24 wrote: »

[
A scenario for you, Come to buy Polk gear, ask questions in forums about said polk gear, get great useful info, stick around for more good info, setup advice, share experiences applying said advice, become regular member.

That scenario was my experience.

Maybe so....for you, but I'd suggest that's not normally the case in general.

The argument is.....

Should we adjust our FM rules.....in order to attract new members ?

Some believe membership enrollment and the FM are mutually joined at the hip and the required post count is keeping new members away. Have any of you looked at other forums to see what if any requirements is asked ? If so, please post them so we all can see and that way stay in touch with whats being done.

Keep in mind that some audio forums are heavily moderated.....to keep the riff-raff out. We have one guy who wears many hats.

I liken this debate to our immigration issues. Do we open the floodgates and not expect anything bad as a side effect ? Should we be more selective ? How will we keep the riff-raff out ....with one moderator ?

Forgive my bluntness, but I've been around here since the last century, as well as many others, and there is a reason this place has been liked for so long and members worth their salt stick around for years and years. Even in the forums top form years ago with Vbulletin, Polk was slow to make any improvements to the forum, and we had more than one moderator. So lets not make Vanilla an issue, thats here to stay. Members come and go for various reasons, so the actual amount of memberships was never really an issue. We protected this place from the riff raff like a momma Bear to her cubs. You simply can't force people to be active members, just look at how many members we have.....verses how many are actually active.

I guess what I'm saying is, think about what makes this place special, and if your willing to risk losing that in order to sell more stuff in the FM.....because that's what this boils down to in the end.....imho anyway.

Hermitism

I've yet to vote. I rarely frequent the classifieds unless something comes up in the "Recent Discussions" page. Ironically, when I joined I so badly wanted to look in there just to familiarize myself with brand names I had never heard of. I had always thought that if you need some sort of cable, you go to the store and buy Monster. I've never sold anything, but did make one purchase, my center channel speaker, which was an excellent and smooth transaction. Even if new members were allowed to sell, I'd only buy from a screen name that I was familiar with, unless it was something under $20, which probably doesn't exist in this world. I'm sort of leaning towards it being the seller's choice on who to sell to, but like the idea that established members get first buying rights (for the first couple weeks of the listing).

I actually spend much more time in the "Looking for Misc Audio Deals of the Day" thread. Have to give a shout out to all that take the time to post good deals in areas that they don't even live in and deals that they find online. Much appreciated.

vcwatkins

I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.

I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.

dromunds

Remember that old joke in National Lampoon: "You know what a Dutch treat is? It's no treat at all!"

Inspector 24

vcwatkins wrote: »

I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.

I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.

Agree. And if someone is negative affecting the community the community shall run them off.

Kurt300

Inspector 24 wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.

I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.

Agree. And if someone is negative affecting the community the community shall run them off.

Or if just a few of us don't like someone, maybe we could just get them banned? By...ummm...mistake? Yeah, mistake...that's it.

tonyb

Inspector 24 wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.

I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.

Agree. And if someone is negative affecting the community the community shall run them off.

Didn't work too swiftly for the last couple did it ?

It's not an attitude for exclusion.....just exclusion of the clowns. We have, if I'm not mistaken, over 5k members....trick is getting participating membership and those interested in the Polk brand.....or any brand for that matter.

If changing the rules is to benefit the seller, then I'd argue your here to sell stuff as a priority, which the FM was never intended to be. Some of you have chastised others for coming here, signing up to just sell stuff.....complained about others coming here, signing up....just to buy stuff. Now you want to say ok to both ? Seems a bit hypocritical dontcha think ? Just sayin'.....

Overall, I think this forum is very welcoming to everyone, that's why most of us are still here, isn't it ? It's when the bozos show up that the arguments and name calling fly. For the sake of selling more used gear, you want to overload Ken, who has nothing to do, right....with more bozos, complaints, and tussles on the forum ? Seems a bit self serving to me but again, just my .02.

Inspector 24

there's only one moderator for the entire forum it just the flea market?

tonyb

I don't think the FM died with Vanilla Skip.....just the more frequent moderation did. Which then put it into our hands to uphold the rules. So since some don't seem competent enough to do that then.....lets throw out the rules ?

The FM was never intended to benefit the seller to begin with.....it benefited the buyer. A benefit that came with participation on the forum to the tune of 100 posts, which we can lower to 50 too if people want. Point is, PARTICIPATION yields the benefit. You erase the participation part, give people the benefit for free.....are you not working against the very thing many claim to want....more participation ?

tonyb

As far as I can remember, the FM always had a restriction of x post count to buy. Could be wrong though, still can't find my can of WD40 I just bought frickin' yesterday.