Should we change the Flea Market Rules?
Comments
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Couldn't disagree more. I'm hardly here to sell stuff as a priority, but I think the seller should determine to whom they sell an item. I would like to think that any true Polkie would give priority to a fellow Polkie....If changing the rules is to benefit the seller, then I'd argue your here to sell stuff as a priority, which the FM was never intended to be...Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
Couldn't disagree more. I'm hardly here to sell stuff as a priority, but I think the seller should determine to whom they sell an item. I would like to think that any true Polkie would give priority to a fellow Polkie....If changing the rules is to benefit the seller, then I'd argue your here to sell stuff as a priority, which the FM was never intended to be...
What exactly are you arguing then ? In order to be a Polkie, you have to do what ? Participate ? That's what the min. post count is for.
The FM was originally intended for Polkies to give other Polkies good deals.
Not to attract the most buyers as possible
Not to encourage hit and runs
Not as a way to increase membership
Not as a means to move your gear as quickly as possible
The seller always has a right to sell to who ever they want....whether it's a Polkie with a min. post count, or they take it off forum to transact a deal for those who aren't Polkies.
The problem is enforcing the rules, of which we need all members to do, not just some.
Anyway, think I've said all I need to, the rest is up to you guys.
Oh, one more thing. If you think requiring a 50 post count is discouraging to new people. Wait until a buyer signs up just to make a purchase, is first to respond, and the seller tells him tough....I'm gonna sell it to Joe because he's a regular with 800 posts. You don't think that buyer will be ticked off ? LOL.....even more so.
Post edited by tonyb onHT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I'm arguing that if my item sits for a month and a Polkie doesn't want it then I should be able to sell to whomever I choose regardless of post count. To me, "taking it off the forum" just seems like going behind a friends back rather than being upfront and honest with them.What exactly are you arguing then ?
I agree with each of these points. I don't want to change the rules for any of these reasons (though #3 could be an unintended consequence), but rather for the ability to be able to sell an item that has been sitting for a while.Not to attract the most buyers as possible
Not to encourage hit and runs
Not as a way to increase membership
Not as a means to move your gear as quickly as possibleThings work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
LOL. One of the posters didn't understand the concept of an iPod based music server, and insisted over and over that Apple Lossless (ALAC) was really lossy. Amazingly, he was the only one I could find on the Internet saying that. Oh well, we all make mistakes.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Seems to me we always had a post restriction for use of the FM.The FM was originally intended for Polkies to give other Polkies good deals.
Not to attract the most buyers as possible
Not to encourage hit and runs
Not as a way to increase membership
Not as a means to move your gear as quickly as possible
Bingo was his name.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.
It's not the first time he has posted about his project and he got the same reaction the first time, so obviously he is not easily deterred.
I look at it another way, people are trying to do him a favor. I mean, would you encourage someone to jump off a cliff because they wanted to see what happened or would you try to stop them from doing what is going to end in disaster?
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
Yeah what he said.. Yeah the Dutch they got their finger in the dike..Some final words,
"If you keep banging your head against the wall,
you're going to have headaches."
Warren -
I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.
VC, I read that thread and re-read that thread. And I sincerely do not see any sort of exclusionary attitude.
A number of well-established members (F1, H9, Tonyb, Dskip, etc) offered well wishes AND made note of several facts that the OP should be aware of. Trying to create a copy of a speaker that sounds like another speaker involves more than copying the cabinet and crossovers.
Reasonable questions were asked of the OP.
References were made light-heartedly of Ben's Frankenpolks as a friendly "warning shot across the bow" that others had attempted projects of a similar nature with less than desireable results.
And so forth.
If that sort of interaction is felt to scare of newbies, than ...... I don't know. God help us all ?
The OP had already spent a significant amount of money on components for his project. I would ASSUME that he had some fabrication experience and had downloaded design software to help in his build.
I say ASSUME because he didn't mention anything. It would have been nice if he had.
I sincerely don't see anything in the linked thread that would scare off a newbie. To me, responses of "Oh, that's wonderful" or "Hurray for you" without raising issues of possible landmines is condescending to the OP and is a disservice. 9 months down the road, after the project is completed and the OP posts "Hey, guys, it didn't work out, They don't sound bad, but they don't sound good. What a waste of my money !", then what ? Should the replies be "Yeah, we were pretty sure it wouldn't work" ? That might pi$$ off/scare off the OP. So should our responses be "Oh, that's a shame !" and "Oh, that's too bad !".
That's just my .02 worth. Actually I was kind of long-winded so .,... let's make it $1.20.
Sal Palooza -
Gotcha Big Blue. We just see it differently and I'm probably being thuper thenthative. But we definitely have different definitions of "well wishes", hehe.mrbigbluelight wrote: »I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.
VC, I read that thread and re-read that thread. And I sincerely do not see any sort of exclusionary attitude.
A number of well-established members (F1, H9, Tonyb, Dskip, etc) offered well wishes AND made note of several facts that the OP should be aware of. Trying to create a copy of a speaker that sounds like another speaker involves more than copying the cabinet and crossovers.
Reasonable questions were asked of the OP.
References were made light-heartedly of Ben's Frankenpolks as a friendly "warning shot across the bow" that others had attempted projects of a similar nature with less than desireable results.
And so forth.
If that sort of interaction is felt to scare of newbies, than ...... I don't know. God help us all ?
The OP had already spent a significant amount of money on components for his project. I would ASSUME that he had some fabrication experience and had downloaded design software to help in his build.
I say ASSUME because he didn't mention anything. It would have been nice if he had.
I sincerely don't see anything in the linked thread that would scare off a newbie. To me, responses of "Oh, that's wonderful" or "Hurray for you" without raising issues of possible landmines is condescending to the OP and is a disservice. 9 months down the road, after the project is completed and the OP posts "Hey, guys, it didn't work out, They don't sound bad, but they don't sound good. What a waste of my money !", then what ? Should the replies be "Yeah, we were pretty sure it wouldn't work" ? That might pi$$ off/scare off the OP. So should our responses be "Oh, that's a shame !" and "Oh, that's too bad !".
That's just my .02 worth. Actually I was kind of long-winded so .,... let's make it $1.20.
I woulda simply said "good luck" and "let us know how it goes", given the time and effort already put into the project. (Did he seem to be asking for advice?) I get a similar discomfort when I see someone has purchased gear and is understandably excited, and someone poo-poos the thing or says how he would have done it differently. It doesn't do any good at that point and possibly damages the relationship permanently. It's also likely we simply have differing ideas about what is rude or not.
I will likely resolve my concerns re: the forum by reverting to lurk mode.
Peace to all,
Craig
b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
vcwatkins wrote:It's also likely we simply have differing ideas about what is rude or not.
That couldn't be truer ! But my rudeness meter should definitely NOT be used for calibration. If it were, it might be possible that the world would be a lot more ....... persnickety ?vcwatkins wrote:I will likely resolve my concerns re: the forum by reverting to lurk mode.
I REALLY hope you don't go that route. Folks of your caliber are definitely wanted/needed here. If we keep losing good people, than soon we'll be left with just PFB, me, and our "neighbors to the north" !!!
........ which is probably just the way they have it planned (under the influence of the Dutch). Sal Palooza -
I voted 3 but I'm fine with 1-2 as well as it really doesn't affect me, I took 4 as just a joke but maybe some have used it to show frustration with the new forum but we should keep in mind any Tom D1ck an Harry can just pop in and vote, doesn't necessarily mean a member voted #4..
And someone stated above there's bigger problems then the FM...
I for one still hate the new vanilla Fourm, I try I really do, I pop in and out mainly because if it was not for this place I wouldn't have the gear I have nor would I have learned the things I have because of the good people here, and I love my SDA's..
With that said a lot of good people have left, and this place isn't the same since the swap to vanilla...
Maybe they should have gone with Vanilla Bean with Fudge on top... -
I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.
Honestly the bottom line of my curiosity in that thread was "Did you just slap this all together and are hoping for the best, if not how did you tune everything?"
If you just take a normal run-of-the-mill naturally aspirated engine and throw a turbo charger on it, what's going to happen? It won't last long, at best. If you went to a car forum and posted pics and your story of doing this, they are going to start asking questions. "Are you using the stock ECU? The stock ECU can only compensate for so much extra air, how did you tune the engine? Did you replace the fuel injectors with something higher flow? Did you replace your fuel pump with a high flow? How do you know it's not running too lean or too rich?" etc.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Gotcha Big Blue. We just see it differently and I'm probably being thuper thenthative. But we definitely have different definitions of "well wishes", hehe.mrbigbluelight wrote: »I think what is at issue here is the predominant attitude of the forum.
I personally don't have any interest in being in a fraternity of 20 guys with the same haircut that seeks to exclude the riff-raff for whatever reason. I want a FORUM. As in public square. Welcoming. Professors, students, loonies, and all. Except the Dutch.
This Frankenpolk thread is an example of the exclusionary attitude that I think pervades. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this OP will not be returning.
I'd encourage you to read that thread and imagine you are a new member, enthusiastic about a project that you think would be cool to share with folks you assume will be interested, go to a lot of effort to post details and pics and...SPLAT. I am sure I would leave for good and certainly wouldn't blame him if he did so. I was embarrassed for the forum, frankly, and wish I had voiced encouragement at that time. Thanks to @SDA1C for doing so, even though I fear it's too late.
VC, I read that thread and re-read that thread. And I sincerely do not see any sort of exclusionary attitude.
A number of well-established members (F1, H9, Tonyb, Dskip, etc) offered well wishes AND made note of several facts that the OP should be aware of. Trying to create a copy of a speaker that sounds like another speaker involves more than copying the cabinet and crossovers.
Reasonable questions were asked of the OP.
References were made light-heartedly of Ben's Frankenpolks as a friendly "warning shot across the bow" that others had attempted projects of a similar nature with less than desireable results.
And so forth.
If that sort of interaction is felt to scare of newbies, than ...... I don't know. God help us all ?
The OP had already spent a significant amount of money on components for his project. I would ASSUME that he had some fabrication experience and had downloaded design software to help in his build.
I say ASSUME because he didn't mention anything. It would have been nice if he had.
I sincerely don't see anything in the linked thread that would scare off a newbie. To me, responses of "Oh, that's wonderful" or "Hurray for you" without raising issues of possible landmines is condescending to the OP and is a disservice. 9 months down the road, after the project is completed and the OP posts "Hey, guys, it didn't work out, They don't sound bad, but they don't sound good. What a waste of my money !", then what ? Should the replies be "Yeah, we were pretty sure it wouldn't work" ? That might pi$$ off/scare off the OP. So should our responses be "Oh, that's a shame !" and "Oh, that's too bad !".
That's just my .02 worth. Actually I was kind of long-winded so .,... let's make it $1.20.
I woulda simply said "good luck" and "let us know how it goes", given the time and effort already put into the project. (Did he seem to be asking for advice?) I get a similar discomfort when I see someone has purchased gear and is understandably excited, and someone poo-poos the thing or says how he would have done it differently. It doesn't do any good at that point and possibly damages the relationship permanently. It's also likely we simply have differing ideas about what is rude or not.
I will likely resolve my concerns re: the forum by reverting to lurk mode.
Peace to all,
Craig
Similar things were said when I announced my tube amp project, and some comments could have been considered insulting... I took them with a grain of salt and pressed ahead anyway. But I also listened, and the result is a pair of amplifiers that stand among the greats, and among DIY, as works of art, IMHO anyway. It was the critics that made me push the envelope and strive for excellence, rather than settle for good enough.
If the builder of the frankenpolks is so easily dissuaded from his project, we did him a favor. If he pushes through, and listens to his critics and takes heed of the advise, maybe he can pull it off.
I have yet to begin my little project of re-doing my 1.2TL's because even though I think I can gain a bit of performance by using better construction and materials, I am still trying to understand just what it is that makes them so good as they are.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
My main concern is that he leaves the forum. If he is gone for good, is that good for the forum?
What if he succeeds? If he does succeed (on his terms), it will not be because of what he read in that thread. There is not one shred of advice in that thread other than he's wasting his time. How cool would it have been if he got substantive advice and support and created something of value (again, on his terms)? What if he knows a great deal more about engineering speakers than was assumed (or more than his critics?
) and is capable of succeeding even according to the forum members' measures of success? The group will have lost a valuable asset but won't even know it. @nooshinjohn , what if you had left the group because of the insulting remarks? We would have lost out big time.
What constitutes "success"? If it sounds good to him? If he learned from the experience? If he learned new skills that can be applied in other endeavors? If he got to know some folks with similar interests, they got to know him, they benefited from his being around, and he and the group enjoyed a lasting and productive relationship? What has more value: correcting someone in such a manner that he leaves the group (but at least he got the "truth"!) or making a new friend?
Who defines success or value? Perhaps the best advice for the OP would have been "Don't let others define success for you. Whatever you endeavor to do (even building Frankenpolks) strive for the very best".
A couple Wooden-isms to leave you with:
"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes."
"Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming."
b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
I'm arguing that if my item sits for a month and a Polkie doesn't want it then I should be able to sell to whomever I choose regardless of post count. To me, "taking it off the forum" just seems like going behind a friends back rather than being upfront and honest with them.What exactly are you arguing then ?
I agree with each of these points. I don't want to change the rules for any of these reasons (though #3 could be an unintended consequence), but rather for the ability to be able to sell an item that has been sitting for a while.Not to attract the most buyers as possible
Not to encourage hit and runs
Not as a way to increase membership
Not as a means to move your gear as quickly as possible
Lets look at that logic for a second. If an item sits here for awhile, what does that mean ? Nobody here wants it ....right ? If nobody here wants it, the seller has every right to remove it and list it elsewhere at numerous other sites where he may gain exposure. Your not going behind anyones back, because you gave all your "friends" a shot at it first.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
How about creating two different areas in the forum - One for "members" with at least (insert post count here), and another for "noobs" with less than the specified post count?"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Based on the results of the poll I'd say it's pretty logical.Lets look at that logic for a second. If an item sits here for awhile, what does that mean ? Nobody here wants it ....right ? If nobody here wants it, the seller has every right to remove it and list it elsewhere at numerous other sites where he may gain exposure. Your not going behind anyones back, because you gave all your "friends" a shot at it first.
Why would a person have to remove it here to list it elsewhere? I sometimes have items listed elsewhere at a higher price.
If the bolded part is true then why is it necessary to "take it off forum" if I'm selling to a forum member with less than 100 posts???
That's the part where I see no logic: "Hey, you can sell to the newb with less than 100 posts, just do it off forum so nobody knows about it."Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
I haven't been here as long as all you old timers have but listening to you it sounds like the FM is here for the Polk members to get good deals on gear from other Polk members.
So the only way to keep it that way is to keep it as is. I voted for #1 and yes I agree #4 should not be up there! It's just to bad that the forum can't control what we vote for tho.Anaheim Hills CA,
HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30
2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703 -
There are rules and rules are rules I get it. As i said earlier, when a noob comes on board and tries to sell or buy something, nicely remind them and point them to the rules. If they insist on pursuing a sell or buy, ignore them and flag them. The fact the the forum can't enforce the rules is the problem here... not the rules, not the members and not the NFG's.
And as far as anybody who votes contrary to your opinion, don't take it so personally.. this is a place where people can express an opinion and whether you like it or not you should not get offended or admonish them for having a contrary opinion.
I think the sanctimonious tone at times is a little over the top and can discourage new members or members who do not have thousands of posts. Personally i would like to see more gear and reviews and less arguing. Arguments can be made but when they become uncivil then it's time for the moderators to step in. I have always been amazed that the people with the strongest opinions are usually the least tolerant of other people's opinions which is contradictory to to what an opinion is. Just my .22 cents... who says there is no inflation.My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160
Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |
ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4
Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |
Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |
Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |
Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's
Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's | -
Exactly!!!!...If an item sits here for awhile, what does that mean ? Nobody here wants it ....right ?...
And if that's the case, what's the problem with selling to someone who has under 100 posts?Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
To the now 15 people who voted #4, if you think this forum is dying then get off your a$$ and do something about it. Make new threads, answer questions, tell any of your audio friends about Club Polk....do something other than hide behind your keyboard.
The fact that so many have voted for #4 goes back to my assertion that many come here to see what deal they can get in the FM then skip town. They don't care about the forum per say, only what they can get on the cheap.
And this is why I voted #1. Keep it the same; 100 posts to buy AND sell.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Because my friend, the FM is for PARTICIPATING members, not any Tom/Dick or Harry.
Skip, I respectfully disagree, your wrong.
"The 'purpose' of the fm morphed when it was restricted. Like I said before, there was never a restriction for buyers until access was limited. The fm is meant as a marketplace for members to use, not an elbow nudging 'look at that deal' kind of place. If members want to offer those deals to other members, that's their decision."
The FM has always had a min. requirement to buy. Access to buyers always required a min. participation of 100 posts....least that I remember.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yep, Skip is right. My first sale was to a one-post buyer (because there were no restrictions on buying). Buy that point, you had to have 100 posts to sell (when I joined it was 25). I had been around for about a year, lowly reading and contributing when I could. I wasn't offering any special deal, I just had a (at that time) coveted polk speaker, so I thought this is the place to sell it. That sale happened pretty quick, so looking back I might have stopped a Polkie from getting it, which I wouldn't do anymore. One of my much later sales was the same way. Except that time it took longer so it was pretty clear that no Polkie wanted my item.
Around 2011 the FM became exclusive, where only members with 100 or more posts had access. Many of us (including Skip and I) complained, along with lots of lurkers who didn't have many posts. But my position was that Polk owned the forum, and it was their rule, so I would honor it (and of course that was easy since there really wasn't any way around it).
Now, post vanilla, two things have happened. 1. anyone can once again see the FM, and 2. The execs at Polk clearly are no longer concerned about this forum. Maybe it was never a priority, but as many have said, at least before vanilla (which I really don't mind personally) it was advertised and we knew who the main polk IT person was running it, and there were several other official moderators.
To me, the combination of 1 and 2 says that it is now up to us to decide what the rule is to be. This isn't fundamentally about the overall state of the forum, although it is obviously related. Its just about changing one unenforceable rule that negatively affects some regularly contributing members. It might have other side affects, but that is not primarily what we are debating.Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Because my friend, the FM is for PARTICIPATING members, not any Tom/Dick or Harry.
But if none of the participating members want it after a month, what's the problem selling to Tom, Dick, or Harry?
Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
After much deliberating I came to a decision and placed a vote over the weekend.
That is all. Thank you for your time. -
Because my friend, the FM is for PARTICIPATING members, not any Tom/Dick or Harry.
But if none of the participating members want it after a month, what's the problem selling to Tom, Dick, or Harry?
Then place it on Audiogon, Craigslist, US Audiomart, Ebay.....where any Tom/Dick or Harry has access to your goods. The FM here is not intended to be Ebay minus the fee's, which is what some want to turn it into. We keep the integrity of the FM in place with rules. No rules equates to no or little integrity.....no integrity equates to pissed off members. Pissed off members equates to less membership.
Seller always has had the option to sell to anyone they wish. Get a phone number, email, whatever and do it off site.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I'd like to explore a couple things...
With all the discussion surrounding bad sales, bad buyers, and one time wonders giving the place a bad name, it seems to me that in some way by allowing only those members with 100 posts to sell Polk Forums is qualifying them as a reputable seller.
It seems that could potentially be a dangerous proposition, IE someone screws over a buyer or multiple buyers but Polk forums said they were ok to sell with 100 posts, so who is to blame, the bad seller or those who said they were good enough to sell with a trite 100 posts.
While I think that 100 posts is too low if you're trying to up participation for FM usage (and certainly too low if it's an easy attempt to vet sellers/buyers), I do understand where the decision comes from.
However, by effectively certifying anyone with X amount of posts to buy/sell, is not Polk Forums, even Polk Audio themselves assuming some liability in all sales?
In which case it seems the safer route would be either shutting down the FM or opening the doors to all with a simple warning, buyer and seller beware, Polk or Polk Forums takes no responsibility in any sale as we do not limit who can sell or buy through here...That's what PayPal is for.
Additionally, by making it 100 posts for sellers only you are encouraging an environment of seller beware, since anybody could potentially sign up and buy something.
Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
Polk never has and never will take any responsibility for any transaction in the FM. It's in the rules,Note: Polk Audio is not responsible for any of the sales that go in within these areas. All sales are at your own risk.
All this talk about opening up the FM to all buyers seems a bit pointless to me since there really hasn't been many newbie buyers to begin with.
It's been the custom here that when an item hasn't sold, the seller states that it's going up for sale somewhere else within a certain time frame. Let's face it, not everything put up for sale here is something that someone wants, perhaps anywhere at any price.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Then place it on Audiogon, Craigslist, US Audiomart, Ebay.....where any Tom/Dick or Harry has access to your goods. What if the items are already on those sites? (Hopefully at a little higher price) You seem to assume that said items are only listed on CP. The FM here is not intended to be Ebay minus the fee's, which is what some want to turn it into. I don't think that's what anyone wants at all. Well, our "established members" who do nothing but sell here might like it We keep the integrity of the FM in place with rules. No rules equates to no or little integrity.....no integrity equates to pissed off members. Pissed off members equates to less membership. I agree, but no one wants "no rules," just a modified rule.
Seller always has had the option to sell to anyone they wish. Get a phone number, email, whatever and do it off site. Again, seems like going behind everyone's back to me. If I'm selling to the same guy what difference does it make?
I'm not saying sell to the first guy that shows interest, I'm saying if it sits here a month sell it to whoever you choose. There are several items on here now that you have even commented on it being a steal and Polkies are nuts for not buying it. Wouldn't you rather the seller be able to sell it if someone shows interest instead of sitting on it? My interpretation is that you are okay with him selling to the newbie who shows interest, you just don't want to know about it (thus the "take it off site" comments.)
Anyway, it's probably about time for us to just agree to disagree on this as I'm pretty sure neither of us are changing our opinion anytime soon
I appreciate the way we have been able to "argue" while remaining completely civil. Nothing wrong with a little healthy disagreement. Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
This discussion has been closed.