Let me have it....tell me I'm crazy....but I use Romex 12/2 for speaker cable

Apexpro

tonyb wrote: »

Those Nak cables go for under 100 bucks per 8 ft pair so I wouldn't expect a huge improvement, maybe some though over basic wire.

So do wires have to be expensive to work?

I would think that once the R&D is done they would be simple to reproduce and target the bottom tier of the consumer pyramid from a price point perspective. Much better to make $30 on 100,000 pairs than $300 on 1,000 pairs.

I do need to ask the experts - what makes for a good speaker wire? Or can they be broken down into components? Ends, wire composition, winding, insulation, etc. What would be the ideal combination? What should I be shooting for?

Okay, the Nak cables arrived today. They're nicely crafted, have Nak emblems on all 4 connectors. They could be knock-offs I guess. Anyone can buy the ends. They're thicker in the middle than at the terminals. Everything is neatly and professionally done. This is what they look like and assume, are:

http://www.nakamichiplug.com/product-c15f25.html

So that's pair 'B'. Doug's will be 'C' or 1,2,3, - don't mean to imply any sort of grading. I'm headed out on the road for a week - it'll be a while before I actually start listening closely.

They look really nice, so they got that going for them.

Apexpro

How long should I burn in new cables? Ballpark?

BlueFox

Apexpro wrote: »

So do wires have to be expensive to work?

No, but to work really well implies R&D, and technology. To recoup that money, and pay a living salary to the employees (assuming US based), the price for great cables wil be much more than the cost for adequate cables.

I exclusively use Shunyata at this time since they work well, and I like that they explain the science behind their designs. Compared to other vendors, Shunyata is reasonably priced.

http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/technical-feat/309-tron-technology

http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/technical-feat/308-dtcd

http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/technical-feat/312-faq-tech-feat

tonyb

Coat hanger "will work" too....don't see those on your list either. If you only want to compare apples...you'll only taste apples. Have to throw an orange in there somewhere.

Apexpro

BlueFox wrote: »

Apexpro wrote: »

Compared to other vendors, Shunyata is reasonably priced.

I'm not seeing prices anywhere. I normally take that as a sign I can't afford it. ('if you have to ask.....')

Wait - $2,250.00. Each.

I think I'd be better off buying a used set of really nice speakers AR, B&W, KEF for half as much. I'd like to think I could afford to lay out $5000 for cables, but the sad fact is I'll never be able to buy a set of cables that cost more than my car is worth. *shrug*

Apexpro

So is cable 'burn in' a real thing or just a myth?

headrott

Apexpro wrote: »

So is cable 'burn in' a real thing or just a myth?

Only one way to find out for yourself............

Apexpro

headrott wrote: »

Apexpro wrote: »

So is cable 'burn in' a real thing or just a myth?

Only one way to find out for yourself............

I have to disagree. I think enough people know whether or not it helps and have a ballpark idea. Otherwise what's the purpose of these forums? Maybe I'm incorrect in assuming this is for a free exchange of ideas and social interaction.

If I am wrong I'll thank all for their help thus far and will stop bothering everyone.

headrott

Apexpro wrote: »

headrott wrote: »

Apexpro wrote: »

So is cable 'burn in' a real thing or just a myth?

Only one way to find out for yourself............

I have to disagree. I think enough people know whether or not it helps and have a ballpark idea. Otherwise what's the purpose of these forums? Maybe I'm incorrect in assuming this is for a free exchange of ideas and social interaction.

If I am wrong I'll thank all for their help thus far and will stop bothering everyone.

We can TELL you anything, but for you to believe it, it takes first-hand experience. There is no other way to believe except to experience it yourself.

By us telling you that burn in is fact MAY help convince you to experience it yourself however, which is where forums come in handy.

WLDock

Apexpro wrote: »

I need to quiet the back room down. Large heavy curtains will help a lot, I have a few dozen '24 egg' crates I could paint and put on the back wall, and maybe book cases on a side wall.

Any suggestions about inexpensive wall covering material?

Egg crates might work...but please don't do it. Make some better looking ones for yourself: http://acousticsfreq.com/blog/?p=62
http://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-insulation-materials/acoustic-insulation/owens-corning-acoustic-insulation/
http://metrosupplycollc.com/Acoustical_Insulation.html

Apexpro

WLDock wrote: »

Egg crates might work...but please don't do it. Make some better looking ones for yourself:
http://acousticsfreq.com/blog/?p=62
http://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-insulation-materials/acoustic-insulation/owens-corning-acoustic-insulation/
http://metrosupplycollc.com/Acoustical_Insulation.html

Thank God I don't have to do the eggcrates. Thanks for the tips! I'll have to get the lady friend to do some fabric shopping for me.

Speedskater

No, egg crates didn't work way back then and they won't work now! They were only effective in a narrow frequency band, which is not what you want.

Apexpro

I'll keep using them for what God intended. Trays for reloading pistol ammo.

Apexpro

Hey! The smiley face worked.

Msabot1

Depends on the room you were going to use the set up in....A main room in your home I would not suggest using those....a basement studio or such would be different...that fiber material that those are pressed out of and the pattern lends itself to very good sound baffling....

WLDock

Also, if you have bass issues don't for get bass traps.

I plan to make some of these myself at some point.
http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html
http://www.amerisafe.net/en/insulation-products/pipe-insulation

Apexpro

WLDock wrote: »

Also, if you have bass issues don't for get bass traps.

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!

Toolfan66

WLDock wrote: »

Also, if you have bass issues don't for get bass traps.

I plan to make some of these myself at some point.
http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html
http://www.amerisafe.net/en/insulation-products/pipe-insulation

Thanks for the links...

I'm in...

Apexpro

Interim report:

I started with 16AWG O2 free stranded speaker wire as the baseline and listened to a variety of music from Jeff Beck to Bach. I used Bose 901s as the first speaker and then switched to SDA 2s and repeated the same CDs. I'm only using CDs for this test.

After establishing the baseline I switched to Nakamachi cables. Some have said these aren't much better than the 16AWG O2 free cables and so far I have to agree. I haven't been able to tell any difference using the 901s. I'll be switching to the Polks this weekend to complete phase II.

I received my cables from Doug yesterday and can't wait to get through with phase II and on to phase III. Doug's cables have silver connectors and are masterfully crafted. I can feel a difference in heft and have to believe they'll carry a better load and with the silver connectors make a better connection. It's hard to look at them and not immediately hook them up, but I need to be methodical about the process.

Stay tuned.

ZLTFUL

One thing that I am glad to see is that, it appears, you are keeping an open mind. And that is all we ever ask.
If you listen to several different cable options and come back and state that you really didn't hear any difference, nobody is going to chastise you because at least you tried it out for yourself.
The people "we" have problems with are those who come to the table with closed minds and no desire to try and see for themselves.

It's your ears. I know what I have heard and where I have heard differences but because my ears are different than yours, my listening environment is different than yours and my gear is different than yours...well, nobody can tell you...you just have to knock on the sky and listen for the sound yourself.

Apexpro

For now I'll stick with the $20 dollar 16AWG O2-free with gold plated bananas, the used $70 Naks, and Doug's $250 set of twin 14AWG Canare cables with silver coated connects.

If I can tell a difference with Doug's cables I'll consider others, but I want to finish this 3 wire test first.

tonyb

The problem with this test as I see it, is you picked 3 different cables all similar, all roughly in the same price tier, so I would expect your results to be minute as well with the Canare holding an edge above the other 2.

If your going to do a test, and the goal of that test is to decipher if you can hear a difference, then you need 3 different cables, different price catagories, different build/design...different sound signatures.

Apexpro

If someone will lend me cables I'll definitely try different price points, but I don't have the means to spend $1,000 on a test.

I sense I'm already being dismissed before I even finish my tests.

tonyb

Apexpro wrote: »

If someone will lend me cables I'll definitely try different price points, but I don't have the means to spend $1,000 on a test.

I sense I'm already being dismissed before I even finish my tests.

Not dismissing....just suggesting you could have done better in your core selections. There's an awful lot of real estate in cables between what you have and your suggested 1000 buck cables....especially on the used market.