The Mystery of the Missing Triple 7

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

WSJ is reporting that communications were indeed shut down manually....and at different times. Also that the plane likely flew 5 hours, not 4. Nobody hijacks a plane to crash it into the ocean, this puppy is on the ground somewhere, maybe even refueled and in the air again....who knows. Still think Israel is the end target. The Malaysian government has been so wishy washy, sending rescuers to the east when I believe they knew it was taken to the west.

We have India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Burma, all within reach. Ya think there might be a terrorist cell or two in those area's ? We sent a destroyer to the Indian ocean....betcha it's not to look for wreckage either. Crap is going down and it's a race now to stop it....assuming of course they want to stop it. This isn't going to end well I fear.

Best not to forget the little biotchboy that runs North Korea either... they have nukes and no means to deploy them. What's better than a 777 on autopilot.

My gut tells me the bird is on the ground in Pakistan, where it will be used to strike a Western target in Europe somewhere. SpecOPS will be all over this one I hope, and soon.

Hermitism wrote: »

The aliens are here for our VCR technology!

Where do you think we get all this tech from... everybody seems to forget Roswell.

BlueFox

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Best not to forget the little biotchboy that runs North Korea either... they have nukes and no means to deploy them. What's better than a 777 on autopilot.

I agree an airplane is the ultimate terror delivery mechanism, especially general aviation aircraft.

http://time.com/23281/report-u-s-could-be-plunged-into-blackout-by-minimal-attacks/?hpt=hp_t3

However, why would North Korea go to the trouble of hijacking an aircraft since the odds of success are close to zero? They can buy all the aircraft they need on the global used aircraft market.

nooshinjohn

BlueFox wrote: »

I agree an airplane is the ultimate terror delivery mechanism, especially general aviation aircraft.

However, why would North Korea go to the trouble of hijacking an aircraft since the odds of success are close to zero? They can buy all the aircraft they need on the global used aircraft market.

And I do agree with you... on the surface of it, it seems a rather odd play for them, but if you are looking to mask your tracks and run a false-flag attack, it might make sense, at least to the mind of a deranged infant of a man with nobody around with balls to tell him no. I did state in my post however that I felt the plane is in Pakistan somewhere and not in North Korea. Hell, the Chinese may have the plane as well, and for whatever reason have something up their sleeves.

With regards to the odds of success, given what we have learned about aircraft systems, the radar grid and the complete lack of tracking over 2/3rd's of the surface of the globe, I would say the success rate would be quite high. So far it would appear to be 100%. That this has not been tried before is amazing, assuming of course that we are looking at the flight crew stealing an aircraft.

I really have zero clue what to expect next on this and even less an idea about what happened. The only thing we can do is speculate, pray and maybe send in Chuck Norris...

dkg999

As N Korea's only friend is China, I'm not sure kidnapping a plane load of Chinese citizens is that good of move for them?

apphd

tonyb wrote: »

WSJ is reporting that communications were indeed shut down manually....and at different times. Also that the plane likely flew 5 hours, not 4. Nobody hijacks a plane to crash it into the ocean, this puppy is on the ground somewhere, maybe even refueled and in the air again....who knows. Still think Israel is the end target. The Malaysian government has been so wishy washy, sending rescuers to the east when I believe they knew it was taken to the west.

We have India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Burma, all within reach. Ya think there might be a terrorist cell or two in those area's ? We sent a destroyer to the Indian ocean....betcha it's not to look for wreckage either. Crap is going down and it's a race now to stop it....assuming of course they want to stop it. This isn't going to end well I fear.

My thoughts exactly. They may not know for sure why this plane was taken, but they are not going to allow it back in the air for long if it is indeed on the ground. More than likely someone has a carrier in the area as well. Too many things point to a thought out plan of some kind. Other than a pilot suicide, there is probably only one other reason for this. Let's hope we are all wrong.

tonyb

Here's my take so far given what we know....

The plane was purposely taken, pretty obvious by now, maybe the pilots were involved, maybe not. I still say the end target is one of 2 places. Israel...or Europe.

Why Israel ? Obvious reasons, they are hated by pretty much every Muslim country....even some non-Muslim ones. With surrounding countries of Israel being taken over by extremists and an American president who is not too thrilled with Israel anyway, now is as good a time as any to strike. That's also a way to get soo many to cooperate across borders....have a united enemy. Coming up from the south east into the Mideast was the best possible route for success. All our military is in the Atlantic/pacific/ Mediterranean....African continent. Indian Ocean was sparse....but seems to me still, cooperation across countries had to have taken place. You just don't fly into anothers airspace unnoticed. Again, who knew what and when is key here.

Why Europe ? Putin is putting the hammer down along his borders, Europe is pushing back...I think the intent here is to give a possible 9-11 moment to Europe. Already Islamists have populated much of Europe. Putin also needs to get them off his back so he can do what he wants. Now Putin and China are long lost buds....Putin can't be seen as taking a plane full of Chinese. He needs a scapegoat. Who are Putins other buds ? Iran....go figure, not exactly void of extremists. Who stole the passports to board the plane....Iranians.

Just my thoughts so far....but again, I pray for those people on the plane.

cnh

Jack Van Impe is resurrected from the grave, sets a NEW date for the END, third time is the CHARM. Missing plane is loaded with nuclear weapons and detonates over Israel. Israel retaliates with nuclear weapons of its own. Iran responds with recently developed missiles, Russia supports the attack, the U.S. and its allies are forced to rain down a veritable nuclear winter on the middle east, Russia sets loose its remaining arsenal.

Fundamentalist Christians around the world turn their heads up waiting for the Rapture as Armageddon begins? The Revelation will be Televised!

Is that about right? Because I've been hearing about the Final battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil from TV boys like Impe since I was 8 or 9 years old.

Ain't gonna happen.

cnh

tonyb

Who said anything about a nuclear device ? That's the one thing that won't happen....why ? Because Muslims hold that piece of real estate as Holy ground also, they won't contaminate it, destroy it for the next thousand years.

World politics, upheavals, attacks, diplomacy even, is a big game of chess with the amount of board pieces getting smaller and smaller. Whats the purpose of a pawn in a game of chess ?

cnh

tonyb wrote: »

Who said anything about a nuclear device ? That's the one thing that won't happen....why ? Because Muslims hold that piece of real estate as Holy ground also, they won't contaminate it, destroy it for the next thousand years.

World politics, upheavals, attacks, diplomacy even, is a big game of chess with the amount of board pieces getting smaller and smaller. Whats the purpose of a pawn in a game of chess ?

Only joking Tony, not aimed at anyone except for the Apocalypse boys who have been crying "wolf", or should I say "bear", forever.

Almost "anything" is possible at this point, but not this! You are right.

cnh

BlueFox

It does seem more and more likely that a hijacking did occur. Whether by a rogue pilot, or someone else, needs to be determined. The cockpit voice recorder is even more essential now.

nooshinjohn

BlueFox wrote: »

It does seem more and more likely that a hijacking did occur. Whether by a rogue pilot, or someone else, needs to be determined. The cockpit voice recorder is even more essential now.

They probably shut that off too.

nooshinjohn

Mystery solved...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewstibbe/2011/06/24/airplane-repo/

dkg999

So what is only being quietly reported is that there were 20 or more experts from Freescale Semiconductor on the plane. Freescale is a primary military contractor for stealth radar technology. If I am Iran, I want that technology. The two people with stolen passports were Iranian. And what better way to prevent the US from destroying the plane and the passengers to prevent the transfer of the technology ...... have the plane be filled with Chinese citizens so that it would create a major international incident ..... and China knows if the Iranians get the technology, then they get the technology.

This is Tom Clancy stuff!

apphd

dkg999 wrote: »

So what is only being quietly reported is that there were 20 or more experts from Freescale Semiconductor on the plane. Freescale is a primary military contractor for stealth radar technology. If I am Iran, I want that technology. The two people with stolen passports were Iranian. And what better way to prevent the US from destroying the plane and the passengers to prevent the transfer of the technology ...... have the plane be filled with Chinese citizens so that it would create a major international incident ..... and China knows if the Iranians get the technology, then they get the technology.

This is Tom Clancy stuff!

Also very plausable. This is far from over. Makes you wonder what the various govs. know that they are not saying.

BlueFox

In this case, if China wanted anything from Freescale Semiconductor they would already have it.

"On board Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 were employees from Freescale Semiconductor, a Texas-based technology firm.

They were based in several manufacturing sites in Kuala Lumpur and Tianjin, China; 12 of the employees were from Malaysia and eight were from China, a spokeswoman for the company confirmed.

The passengers on board were engineers and other experts working to make Freescale Semiconductor chip facilities in Tianjin and Kuala Lumpur more efficient, said Mitch Haws, vice- president, global communications and investor relations."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-latest-conspiracy-theory-were-freescale-semiconductor-top-employees-1440097

Mikey081057

Sounds more like a Bond plot.

Terrorist steal commercial airliner loaded with stealth technology scientists. They convert the 777 into a stealth bomber and load a nuke from Iran headed for Israel.

You gotta know that Mossad is really on the hunt right now trying to find out wtf.

dkg999

But the Iranians wouldn't have the technology. China is just their ace card.

BlueFox

These guys/gals were manufacturing engineers whose job is to make production more efficient. Obviously, any 'stealth' technology is not going to be made in China or Malaysia. Plus a manufacturing engineer would no know more about that technology than people on this forum. While something did happen on that plane, this theory is a dead end.

jflail2

nooshinjohn wrote: »

And I do agree with you... on the surface of it, it seems a rather odd play for them, but if you are looking to mask your tracks and run a false-flag attack, it might make sense, at least to the mind of a deranged infant of a man with nobody around with balls to tell him no. I did state in my post however that I felt the plane is in Pakistan somewhere and not in North Korea. Hell, the Chinese may have the plane as well, and for whatever reason have something up their sleeves.

With regards to the odds of success, given what we have learned about aircraft systems, the radar grid and the complete lack of tracking over 2/3rd's of the surface of the globe, I would say the success rate would be quite high. So far it would appear to be 100%. That this has not been tried before is amazing, assuming of course that we are looking at the flight crew stealing an aircraft.

I really have zero clue what to expect next on this and even less an idea about what happened. The only thing we can do is speculate, pray and maybe send in Chuck Norris...

I honestly think that if the plane is anywhere, its on some unheard of island or hidden runway on a jungle somewhere in that area. I think the US monitors everything that happens in the Pakistan area too much to have a 777 sneak through, but that could just be wishful thinking.

tonyb

jflail2 wrote: »

I think the US monitors everything that happens in the Pakistan area too much to have a 777 sneak through, but that could just be wishful thinking.

I would assume that to be correct. You'd think we'd have a drone or 2 in the vicinity to look for that jet. Unless....we chose to turn a blind eye to this event. Just sayin' is all....when it comes to dirty deeds done by governments, nothing is off the table. Personally I find this whole operation somewhat impossible unless some cooperation by some countries was instituted.

wz2p7j

What's been reported:
Data transmitter and transponder turned off at different times
Plane changed course after the hand off to Ho Chi Min ATC
Emergency locator transmitter (ELT) never activated (supposed to happen automatically if a plane crashes)
Plane may have flown an additional 4 hours after loss of contact

It does reek of an attempt to steal the plane. If you're smart enough to try to steal a 777 surely you're smart enough to have a destination for the plane in mind, but where? If you land on some desert island somewhere how are you going to refuel the bird for some supposed nefarious purpose? If you're in cahoots with some nation/state why does said nation/state need a 777 anyway? Even small nation/states have airplanes, right?

If there was a catastrophic failure why did the various communication systems shut down at different times? If there was sudden decompression I can see the plane flying for hours on auto. But that still doesn't explain why the communications systems shut down at different times and no distress communications from the pilots.

WTF?

Chris

Irrenhaus

Hi all

Here is a summary from another web site I like www.airliners.net

My apologies if is not posted correctly or please let me know is any rules are been broken. It is for information only I can't make the quotation marks larger..

Best



“ **** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****

First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing

- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)

- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local

- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.

- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.

- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.

- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.

- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.

- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.

- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)

- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)

- We have no ELT signal detected.


ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.

- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system

- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.

- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.


ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07

- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.

- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.

- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous


SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.

- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.

- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07


SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.

- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.

- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)

- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?

- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.

- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.


Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.

- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.

- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press


Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.

- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna


Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route

- West over the Malacca straight

- North west of Malacca straight

- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.

- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong


Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.

- We have no data to support any of them.

- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects

- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.


Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.


We have lots of complaints about incompetence.
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.

- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.


We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.

- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.

- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found

---

In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.

- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.

- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

- We have a better idea were it is NOT "

dkg999

I wonder which countries Air Force was told not to shoot down a large plane at flight level 29,500?

nooshinjohn

Investigators trying to solve the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines jetliner have concluded that one of the pilots or someone else with flying experience hijacked the missing Boeing 777 and steered it off course, according to a Malaysian government official.

The official, who is involved in the investigation, told The Associated Press on Saturday that no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive," he said.

He said evidence that led to the conclusion were signs that the plane's communications were switched off deliberately, data about the flight path and indications the plane was steered in a way to avoid detection by radar.

The jet's communication with the ground was severed under one hour into a flight March 8 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Malaysian officials have said radar data suggest it may have turned back and crossed back over the Malaysian peninsula westward, after setting out toward the Chinese capital.

kevhed72

"The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media."

apphd

It looks like all gov. involved are finally on the same page as to what the plane did after it initially dropped off radar. Even though many of our guesses were some what tounge in cheek, many of them have become more plausible. I'll throw one more out there, that involves the oldest motive there is. Perhaps this plane had a high value as in $$$ cargo on board. Think cash, gold, etc. Which could be why the Malaysian officials were some what witholding on thier initial info. One or both of the air crew new it was on board and decided to retire early.

What kind of diplomacy would be involved, if some type of ground operation is used to retake the plane, who would it be? We have a Malaysian airliner originating in Malaysia, loaded with mostly Chinese passengers, possibly on the ground in a 3rd country.

tonyb

Just wondering....is it too late to put in a claim for lost luggage ?

codyc1ark

Fuel to the fire!http://m.fastcompany.com/3027462/fast-feed/with-malaysia-airlines-flight-370-still-missing-conspiracy-theories-flood-the-inte

wz2p7j

apphd wrote: »

It looks like all gov. involved are finally on the same page as to what the plane did after it initially dropped off radar. Even though many of our guesses were some what tounge in cheek, many of them have become more plausible. I'll throw one more out there, that involves the oldest motive there is. Perhaps this plane had a high value as in $$$ cargo on board. Think cash, gold, etc. Which could be why the Malaysian officials were some what witholding on thier initial info. One or both of the air crew new it was on board and decided to retire early.

What kind of diplomacy would be involved, if some type of ground operation is used to retake the plane, who would it be? We have a Malaysian airliner originating in Malaysia, loaded with mostly Chinese passengers, possibly on the ground in a 3rd country.

Right now almost any theory doesn't seem too bizarre.

Chris

dkg999

So they now say the plane pinged the satellites for 7 1/2 hours from take-off. Obviously it had a lot of fuel onboard. There are a lot of places that plane could be, none of them good. We have satellites that monitor the earth and can read a license plate number. I may be wrong, however I'm still thinking that someone knows where it went and just doesn't want the rest of the world to know that yet. I also don't think you go to all that work to crash it somewhere else. There is a plan in progress.