Do power cords make a difference?

BlueFox

Thank god for Stupidity. Where would we be without it? It brings a smile to our face, and puts us in a good mood for the day.

heiney9

Elite gear is over rated and really not as high end as you seem to think, let alone you are talking about a receiver. A receiver is a compromise pretty much by definition. It's a nice "receiver", but far from being musically a high end piece.

All cables matter if you take the time to evaluate and your gear is resolving enough.

H9

markmarc

Jhayman wrote: »

Of course it's all about the Price Point, I'm talking about the ELITE Gear not mainstream items that every Tom Dick and Harry will buy..
The ELITE are ELITE for a reason right?
SO in theory it would be in their best interest to include a $50-300 cable if it makes a difference..

To be very honest Pioneer's Elite line is about 25% up the audio chain with its top model. That isn't a criticism, just fact. The audio industry understands that it just isn't worth it to include a quality power cable. I own SimAudio gear, even their very best Moon mono and stereo amps come with a generic cable, because as I have said before, they know their buyers are going to swap out for their preferred model/brand power cord. If you don't believe me, contact them directly.

pitdogg2

markmarc wrote: »

To be very honest Pioneer's Elite line is about 25% up the audio chain with its top model. That isn't a criticism, just fact. The audio industry understands that it just isn't worth it to include a quality power cable. I own SimAudio gear, even their very best Moon mono and stereo amps come with a generic cable, because as I have said before, they know their buyers are going to swap out for their preferred model/brand power cord. If you don't believe me, contact them directly.

Not to mention the one super quailty PC they would include most likely would be railed against for inferior quailty. My example would be PS Audio maybe your in the Cardas PC cables so you think PS Audio would be inferior to Cardas it's a no win situation for the Audio companies they wouldn't win.

I would love to upgrade my power cable on my Panasonic Plasma but the first instruction in my manual says"DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET POWER CARDS" use only the cable that we sent with the TV. I see nothing special about it but i will follow their instructions.

markmarc

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Not to mention the one super quailty PC they would include most likely would be railed against for inferior quailty. My example would be PS Audio maybe your in the Cardas PC cables so you think PS Audio would be inferior to Cardas it's a no win situation for the Audio companies they wouldn't win.

I would love to upgrade my power cable on my Panasonic Plasma but the first instruction in my manual says"DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET POWER CARDS" use only the cable that we sent with the TV. I see nothing special about it but i will follow their instructions.

A Panasonic plasma is what I did my video power cord test with the Shunyata Venom 3.

pitdogg2

markmarc wrote: »

A Panasonic plasma is what I did my video power cord test with the Shunyata Venom 3.

Yes I know mine is the P50S20 model 2yrs old i think. Does yours have the little clip at the IEC end that hook to the TV?
Until my warranty runs out I'm leary about if I ever have any trouble. My luck would be that even though the PC would most likely have squat to do with any problem they would decline work because of it. It does make one wonder WHY that is the first instruction.

BlueFox

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I would love to upgrade my power cable on my Panasonic Plasma but the first instruction in my manual says"DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET POWER CARDS" use only the cable that we sent with the TV. I see nothing special about it but i will follow their instructions.

They would have no idea you changed the cable.

Jhayman

Thanks for pointing that out..
I'm still laughing..

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Yes I know mine is the P50S20 model 2yrs old i think. Does yours have the little clip at the IEC end that hook to the TV?
Until my warranty runs out I'm leary about if I ever have any trouble. My luck would be that even though the PC would most likely have squat to do with any problem they would decline work because of it. It does make one wonder WHY that is the first instruction.

Jhayman

Read again " No issue paying as long as it MAKES a DIFFERENCE"

DSkip wrote: »

So then, you would have an issue paying for the PC since it makes no difference right? Interesting...

Its the same reason why people upgrade crossovers on their speakers. The majority of buyers don't give a crap about it, therefore its an easy place to reduce cost.

polrbehr

Jhayman wrote: »

I'm not wrong, we all know it's easier to prove a point with evidence and fact..
Just because the Osilloscope shows a change in the cable does not mean it makes a BETTER difference..
My argument is very hard to show with evidence of fact, because ONLY the people can say it makes no difference and they have spoken in many many Forums..
Have I reached 100 posts yet to allow me to buy something or to even see the infamous for sale items..

Here -> http://signalcable.com/images/MagicPower1.jpg

Tell you what. Buy ^^^ this^^^ cable. Try it for a couple of weeks. And, I mean really try it, do a little critical listening, pick out a piece of music you know really well, and just allow yourself to listen rather than just hear. With that in mind, please re-read what you wrote here. Why would you want an oscilloscope to tell your ears that you will/will not (or may/ may not) hear an improvement?

All I would ask is that you post a decent-length review on what you heard, and what you listened for during your evaluation. And feel free to try out Toms' subwoofer test while you're at it, I think he makes a valid point. Either way, what have you got to lose?

Jhayman

Ok fair enough..
Now of course they come with GENERIC cables but one wonders WHY..?
I guess they do all there testing with GENERIC PC's attached right?
Or when they promote their product they use after market PC's ?
You still have to ASK yourself if you pay lots of $$$$ for an AMP, whether it's MOON, Bryston, Krell and they sell you the product with an INFERIOR PC..
Why would they do that, I still say if they use their OWN parts inside the AMP of your choosing, meaning their name is all over the boards and capacitors inside..
Then why not sell and after market PC in their store if they are so much better..
Then you have to ask yourself if they say it's OK to use After market PC, maybe they should tell you which BRAND works best with their AMPs??
Does that not make sence..?
Or better yet get Shunyata or whoever to make them their PC's for them..
Either way it's hogwash..
As for Pioneer Elite not being highend just because it's a Reciever does not mean it's NOT highend..
You guys just don't get it and it's ok, I surrender NOW..
You guys have invested alot of $$$$ some have spent more for CABLES than for there Equipment, LOL
I would be upset as well..if I paid $10,000 for an AMP and then was told I have to spend another $500-1000 on a PC..
In order to truly appriciate the sound I thought I paid $10,000 for in the first place..

last but not least, I prove you guys wrong with a PICTURE of an HIGHEND reciever at the time and it does not have a removable PC, so all you can do then is spout off about well Pioneer Elite is not highend, lol
Even if it's not as you say HIGHEND, it's not bottom end that's for sure, I'm sure my buddy would have spent his $2500 elsewhere, Oh wait he bought Rotel Pre-Pro and Amps..
Then Tizful says ALL recievers come with detachable PC's even the lowly bottom end ones.
Well which is it guys when my buddy bought that Pioneer it was for all intensive purposes the BEST on the market in recievers..
B&O Ice Amps very highly rated..
Listen I don't want lamp cord hooked up to my gear either because it looks ugly, Dress it up and hey We GOT A WINNER..

markmarc wrote: »

To be very honest Pioneer's Elite line is about 25% up the audio chain with its top model. That isn't a criticism, just fact. The audio industry understands that it just isn't worth it to include a quality power cable. I own SimAudio gear, even their very best Moon mono and stereo amps come with a generic cable, because as I have said before, they know their buyers are going to swap out for their preferred model/brand power cord. If you don't believe me, contact them directly.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

You have to admit. He is hilarious.

Yep, and about the millionth one to claim nothing matters at any higher level than the one he currently resides in.

Jhayman,

In case you missed it, don't get it, missed a memo here and there, Audio is enjoyed on many levels. Some can afford a higher level of enjoyment and some are just tickled pink right where their at. It's all good....rock on with your bad self if your one who enjoys what you have. Some others however, seek more and there are definately products out there to help them along the way. We have many members from all sorts of levels of Audio enjoyment. Disregarding others quest for better sound is no better than you complaining about someone poo-pooing your Emo. Maybe best if you listen, ask questions, possibly learn something, and gain further experience before voicing opinions on things you clearly don't understand...yet. Participate in some of the cable demo threads, for the cost of shipping you can get first hand experience and a better base of discussion. Not looking to be confrontational my good man, but really, just try and grasp some of the knowledge base here and try new things....if you want. If your happy, cool, then enjoy your tunes and hold your tongue on subjects you have no experience with. Rock on man.

Jhayman

I'm saying INCLUDE the PC with the AMP but you don't have to tell the customer it's $300 just include eat the COST as I'm sure the $10,000 AMP price is HIGHLY INFLATED..lol
My point exactly as well, PS3 does not ship with a HDMI cable because lets see, SONY wants you to buy THEIR HDMI cable specially designed for the PS3..
Besides your talking about a PC not a Video cable, nice try..
Is that the only Audio company that offers upgradable PC's?
You just made me think of something else, if they offer upgradable PC's why would'nt the other HIGHEND gear guys do the same so they can make $ of that sale as well??

DSkip wrote: »

Exactly my point. In your mind, it makes no difference. Being armed with that knowledge, wouldn't you be PISSED if you had to throw another $300 at that gear because the manufacturer TELLS you it makes a difference? I know I would if that's how I felt about it. You're buying the amp, not the cable. Forcing yet another product in the purchase like this is bad business in many ways. Another example: you buy a PS3 and the only connector they provide is standard composite outputs. They have different connections, but only provide you with this one cable. Why? Because you're buying the system, not the cables. They provide you with the minimum tools necessary to make the product work.

You want to see a product that offers upgraded power cords? Check out the Grant Fidelity Tubedac-11. There is an option to upgrade the power cord to one that the owner himself believes makes his DAC sound better. I guess since he's not mainstream, he's just sucking on the juice.

markmarc

Jhayman wrote: »

Ok fair enough..
Now of course they come with GENERIC cables but one wonders WHY..?
I guess they do all there testing with GENERIC PC's attached right?
Or when they promote their product they use after market PC's ?
You still have to ASK yourself if you pay lots of $$$$ for an AMP, whether it's MOON, Bryston, Krell and they sell you the product with an INFERIOR PC..
Why would they do that, I still say if they use their OWN parts inside the AMP of your choosing, meaning their name is all over the boards and capacitors inside..
Then why not sell and after market PC in their store if they are so much better..
Then you have to ask yourself if they say it's OK to use After market PC, maybe they should tell you which BRAND works best with their AMPs??
Does that not make sence..?
Or better yet get Shunyata or whoever to make them their PC's for them..
Either way it's hogwash..
As for Pioneer Elite not being highend just because it's a Reciever does not mean it's NOT highend..
You guys just don't get it and it's ok, I surrender NOW..
You guys have invested alot of $$$$ some have spent more for CABLES than for there Equipment, LOL
I would be upset as well..if I paid $10,000 for an AMP and then was told I have to spend another $500-1000 on a PC..
In order to truly appriciate the sound I thought I paid $10,000 for in the first place..

last but not least, I prove you guys wrong with a PICTURE of an HIGHEND reciever at the time and it does not have a removable PC, so all you can do then is spout off about well Pioneer Elite is not highend, lol
Even if it's not as you say HIGHEND, it's not bottom end that's for sure, I'm sure my buddy would have spent his $2500 elsewhere, Oh wait he bought Rotel Pre-Pro and Amps..
Then Tizful says ALL recievers come with detachable PC's even the lowly bottom end ones.
Well which is it guys when my buddy bought that Pioneer it was for all intensive purposes the BEST on the market in recievers..
B&O Ice Amps very highly rated..
Listen I don't want lamp cord hooked up to my gear either because it looks ugly, Dress it up and hey We GOT A WINNER..

I've answered your specific question about why high-end companies include generic power cords twice now, yet you keep asking the same question. Keep in mind, I founded Affordable$$Audio because I am a major frugal cheapskate. As a parochial school teacher my pay is way less than my public school brethren, therefore, I don't have extra $$ to spend foolishly, PERIOD. Not one piece of my system is new outside of the Venom 3's. Do yourself a favor and order from AudioAdvisor or Music Direct an after market power cord. You'll have 30 days to try it out. If it doesn't ring your bell return it and get your $$ back.

halo71

Jhayman wrote: »

Have I reached 100 posts yet to allow me to buy something or to even see the infamous for sale items..

Really...you think people here will sell or buy from you?? lol

Jhayman

Why Not because I'm very Opinionated just like everyone else?
At least I'm not name calling like some here..
Hey I just want a good deal on a PC I figure here is best..lol

halo71 wrote: »

Really...you think people here will sell or buy from you?? lol

Jhayman

Ok you have answered twice now, BUT I don't by IT..
It does not make sense for Pioneer Kuro to have a crappy PC included and like you say they expect you to buy an aftermarket PC why would they not sell them to ake even more$$..
Your point is Moot..

markmarc wrote: »

I've answered your specific question about why high-end companies include generic power cords twice now, yet you keep asking the same question. Keep in mind, I founded Affordable$$Audio because I am a major frugal cheapskate. As a parochial school teacher my pay is way less than my public school brethren, therefore, I don't have extra $$ to spend foolishly, PERIOD. Not one piece of my system is new outside of the Venom 3's. Do yourself a favor and order from AudioAdvisor or Music Direct an after market power cord. You'll have 30 days to try it out. If it doesn't ring your bell return it and get your $$ back.

markmarc

Jhayman wrote: »

Ok you have answered twice now, BUT I don't by IT..
It does not make sense for Pioneer Kuro to have a crappy PC included and like you say they expect you to buy an aftermarket PC why would they not sell them to ake even more$$..
Your point is Moot..

To claim my point is moot because you fail to accept reality/truth/logic is misguided at best. The generic power cord makes perfect sense because knowledgeable buyers at the price point are going to buy what they prefer. Manufacturers know this and plan accordingly. It's just like batteries for remote controls, no matter how nice the product and remote are, you still get junk batteries that don't last a week. Why, because it saves the manufacturer $$.

Secondly, Pioneer Elite series is in the big picture of audio, midfi. The Elite series was created by Pioneer as a mea culpa for abandoning the 60's-to early 80's quality in favor of cheap, low quality crapola that looked like something rejected from the space shuttle cockpit. But by the time they did this those great Pioneer engineers had left. To my ears and plenty others it doesn't match up favorably to similar priced gear.

Jhayman

Don't know about America for batteries but when I buy things granted there have been cheapies in there, but I have also gotten Duracells nd Energizers in many products..
And now your just reaching a battery is there to power the remote, for manufacturers to give you the best battery does nothing for the manufacturer, even when the customer replaces said battery the performance does not improve..?
As for Pioneer the Elite Kuro is still considered to be the best TV ever made..

marvda1

why do cars come with generic tires? there are much better tires to be had but you get the bare minimum, go figure.:rolleyes:

markmarc

Jhayman wrote: »

Don't know about America for batteries but when I buy things granted there have been cheapies in there, but I have also gotten Duracells nd Energizers in many products..
And now your just reaching a battery is there to power the remote, for manufacturers to give you the best battery does nothing for the manufacturer, even when the customer replaces said battery the performance does not improve..?
As for Pioneer the Elite Kuro is still considered to be the best TV ever made..

The battery example was to simply point out that manufacturers will save $$ anywhere possible. For the fourth time, high quality power cords are thought of as margin killers. It's all about hitting the price point. The finest amplifiers in the world (Burmester, Nelson Pass, etc) at several times the price of the Kuro TV you mention don't come with fancy cords.

Jhayman

I don't believe that for a second..
And most certainly not believe Nelson Pass or any other high end amp manufacturer would suggest to use another PC other than theirs which I'm sure has been designed around their Amp to be the best at what it does to bring out the Best possible sound..

Toolfan66

The aftermarket world makes the world go round. Be it in audio, automobile, or what have you..

Quit trolling, move on and get a life..

Jhayman

Hey Tool I'm just trying to educate the uneducated..is all.
And yes the after market world exists for everything, but I guess on the Polk Forum, there's no such thing as Snake Oil..
And I see I'm starting to wear some down..
I wonder if I called Panasonic and ordered a replacement PC for my 65" VT series how much it would be?
I'm willing to bet it would cost more than a $50-150 after market cable..

audiocr381ve

We need a quicker shut down of these threads. This guy is clearly trolling and the veteran members still haven't learned to ignore it with out throwing a jab.

Someone for the love of pete, shut it down.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I sometimes am at a loss when dealing with contentious threads. If they are closed too soon I'm afraid of stifling genuine back-and-forth conversation. If they stay around too long people tend to escalate their level of hostility.
There's no easy answer.
Regards, Ken

BlueFox

I would hate to see the thread closed since it is amusing. The only thing that will happen if closed is the troll will move on to another thread.

treitz3

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I would love to upgrade my power cable on my Panasonic Plasma but the first instruction in my manual says"DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET POWER CARDS" use only the cable that we sent with the TV. I see nothing special about it but i will follow their instructions.

Hello, pitdogg2. I may know why. Many PC's are not certified and will flip polarity creating a plethora of other issues the manufacturer wants to avoid.

Tom

ken brydson

Usually when I say "goodbye" and "I'm done" I leave but that obviously doesn't apply to this troll. Quit feeding him!

markmarc

Jhayman wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second..
And most certainly not believe Nelson Pass or any other high end amp manufacturer would suggest to use another PC other than theirs which I'm sure has been designed around their Amp to be the best at what it does to bring out the Best possible sound..

You have ZERO experience with these amplifiers, yet you claim to know as fact. Unlike you I have spent many hours with both brands including the very top model Burmester 911mk3 and PassLabs x200.5. A sponge has fewer holes than your statement.

Jhayman wrote: »

Hey Tool I'm just trying to educate the uneducated..is all.
And yes the after market world exists for everything, but I guess on the Polk Forum, there's no such thing as Snake Oil..
And I see I'm starting to wear some down..
I wonder if I called Panasonic and ordered a replacement PC for my 65" VT series how much it would be?
I'm willing to bet it would cost more than a $50-150 after market cable..

Educate the uneducated???? You're the one with only one passing experience in a showroom. Then there is the website list you posted in #81, where only the last one had any sort of useful debate information. Several of us have asked you to at least experience it in your own home over a one-month period. Yet finally, in this latest post you reveal the truth about your agenda in your first sentence.